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Hide your ISK, Team Security is out of control. (Allegedly)

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Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#181 - 2013-02-12 13:45:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Whitehound wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/ulHNYPw.jpg

this box is ticked by default.

now please stop spreading disinfiormation

EVEMon reads your orders from the EVE API and uploads it to EVE Central. It does not touch local files from what I know.

I'd show you the relavant part of the code - but the battleclinic trac seems to be down and all you'd say is anyways "I can't read sourcecode so I still don't know that evemon reads cache files".

then I'd show you how EVEMon reports on the market files it uploads and how my characters have no orders for any of these items and you'd say "sure it says that it uploads information for these items but I don't know where it got that information from and if it actually uploads anything".

Then I'd show you the wireshark output and evemon's open file handles...

Arguing with you is just not worth the hassle.

.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#182 - 2013-02-12 13:46:30 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
You're wrong.

Can you be more specific please?



You say: Evemon only uses the API to get your own order details to give to eve central
I say: You're wrong, it cache scrapes market data to give to eve central.

Hard to understand?

(And I do know what I'm talking about. I use the EMDR feed, which is one of the other places Evemon sends its market data uploads. It's far more than just single orders)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Thur Barbek
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#183 - 2013-02-12 13:46:56 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
That is the problem right there. He was using tools which allowed him to rapidly perform actions faster than he otherwise would have been able to on his own. This is covered in the EULA.


So pretty much any South Korean Statcraft player is doomed to face false charges and banning, then. Lovely.



Because starcraft relates to eve right? WTF are you trying to compare?

Starcraft rules are completely different from eve rules.
True Sight
Deep Freeze Industries
#184 - 2013-02-12 13:47:32 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
You can't do it without interacting with local files used by the client. In my perfect world those would be protected better. As I said you won't be banned for it today but that's why I take issue with it. We should be enabling this via the API instead.


I think now is a good time for you to take a lunch break, have a smoke, chill out and stop responding to this thread for a few hours :)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#185 - 2013-02-12 13:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
That is the problem right there. He was using tools which allowed him to rapidly perform actions faster than he otherwise would have been able to on his own. This is covered in the EULA.


So pretty much any South Korean Statcraft player is doomed to face false charges and banning, then. Lovely.



Separate game, separate company, separate rules. They have no meaning in this case.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Whitehound
#186 - 2013-02-12 13:53:04 UTC
Garcia Arnst wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
You're wrong.

Can you be more specific please?


By default EVEMon (as of release 1.7) will parse the market cache files generated by your EVEClient and (optionally) upload them to places like eve-central. This functionality is enabled by default.

Thanks. I have turned it off now and will ask in the EVEMon thread about it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2013-02-12 13:56:24 UTC
One day people are going to learn not to start stupid arguments with CCP Sreegs.

Former member of CSM6.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#188 - 2013-02-12 13:56:48 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:
Cotic wrote:
Cursan Voran wrote:
Sreegs you have won this one by a knockout.

Go do something else for a few hours and let us players deal with the dicks in this thread...


This.
Tesco tinfoil (infected with horse meat) is selling out like nothing I've ever seen before.

he just told a few thousand unsuspecting evemon users that they are in violation of the EULA.

what do you expect to happen?

EVEMon does not touch local files from what I know. EVEMon uses the EVE API. There is a thread on the forums for it and CCP has not locked it. So I understand that this tool is officially allowed and it has been for a long time now.


I have NEVER found a player with less clue about how EvE works on many threads and yet he keeps to diligently dig himself into a deeper and deeper hole.

Please, seriously stop posting and start learning.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Garcia Arnst
Doomheim
#189 - 2013-02-12 13:57:17 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:

In my opinion cache scraping is illegal. You won't be banned for it today..


That's kind of problematic isn't it, as we have no idea whether your opinion is held by CCP at large, whether you will continue to hold the same view, or if any successor you have will hold the same view.
Haseo Antares
Production N Destruction INC.
F O R M I C I D A E
#190 - 2013-02-12 14:07:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Haseo Antares
So is modifying the color of "overview titles" and "character titles" via html color tags considered illegal?

Edit: I also forgot modification of damage notifications via xml.

We currently have the world's greatest linguists and scientists trying to decode what you just said.
Whitehound
#191 - 2013-02-12 14:08:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I have NEVER found a player with less clue about how EvE works on many threads and yet he keeps to diligently dig himself into a deeper and deeper hole.

Please, seriously stop posting and start learning.

No, you are just being stupid.

I have now read up on EVEMon and the access to local files was only added recently with version 1.7. So it is rather new.

I have now asked the author on his thread to take it out. You can thank me now.

Edit:
And regarding your attitude on the thread, the crying and biatching, is there just one thing I can tell you: H T F U

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#192 - 2013-02-12 14:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
Garcia Arnst wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

In my opinion cache scraping is illegal. You won't be banned for it today..


That's kind of problematic isn't it, as we have no idea whether your opinion is held by CCP at large, whether you will continue to hold the same view, or if any successor you have will hold the same view.



basically CCP Sreegs doesnt like cache scraping, and although in the eyes of CCP as a whole its deemed to be perfectly legal currently, he will be going round the office collecting supporters in any and every way he can in order to propose a change of policy with sufficient backing.

he's done 'bickering' with CCP's customers, believes he is 100% correct on the matter and wont budge an inch regardless of how angry you all get.

expect no more words from CCP Sreegs, a bit of a wait around and then a statement out from CCP saying cache scraping is now against the EULA (with a new version of the EULA to reflect this in the making) and a 'grace' period of 2 weeks for 3rd party devs to disable any feature on their programs that use cache scraping.


/rant
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#193 - 2013-02-12 14:12:20 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Nemo deBlanc wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:


I'm not sure how asking for where we've made a statement I disagree with (and I'm the only one that matters in this instance) is "cluelessness" but suffice it to say that I would highly recommend you not engage in such activity. You can choose to ignore that and make a self righteous post defending yourself after we take action if you like.


Speaking of self righteous...

Are we to interpret this as official policy change on the issue of cache scraping? 9 months ago, you were fine with it, have things changed since then? If so, I guess enjoy gloating over wrongly banned market accounts.


I've never agreed with it. My stance of "Don't modify the client" hasn't changed since day one. That GMs for some reason have a different interpretation than I do is irrelevant.

while i agree with you 100% in this thread if gms are telling people x and you're telling people y you should probably have a meeting about it, agree on one, and tell everyone that

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#194 - 2013-02-12 14:16:34 UTC
Garcia Arnst wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

In my opinion cache scraping is illegal. You won't be banned for it today..


That's kind of problematic isn't it, as we have no idea whether your opinion is held by CCP at large, whether you will continue to hold the same view, or if any successor you have will hold the same view.



First of all cache scraping can't be illegal because if any company installed illegal to read content on consumers' hard disks then they'd get in big troubles with the law.
It's against an EULA clause instead, which is not a law enforcing medium by any way, just a private contract between a company and an user.

Second, you don't need to alter any file nor to even start EvE to read those files.

Some very clueless companies have indeed tried encrypting content in the past and even to enforce "digital rights" with the nice result of seeing people working harder to crack the content open and spread it even more.

EvE cannot refuse to accept players mods and at the same time don't allow 3rd party utilities to do what's needed.

The API is a first step. But in order to properly implement a markets data 3rd party consumption an optimal implementation would be to let 3rd party developers access a CCP provided ZeroMQ or other similar real time protocol data feed.
The regular API and even the REST new version could never survive one minute of the necessary data throughput.

This of course means that the current "grey" situation of "we'll let you read the cache, just don't abuse it" is best to stay in until a proper solution is found by CCP.

I remind that the game with the most realistic markets has also the most left-not-updated markets interfaces and facilities of every MMO out there except one.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#195 - 2013-02-12 14:22:06 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
We should be enabling this via the API instead.


We should be so lucky. We've been told that CCP barely allocates the resources to maintain the current API, and there's been no word on CREST for a month.

Necessity is the mother of invention as it were.
Whitehound
#196 - 2013-02-12 14:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
First of all cache scraping can't be illegal because ...

Newsflash: it just got illegal.

You can biatch about it all day long or you can do what others do and respect CCP Sreegs' opinion.

It is quite easy. Which side are you on? CCP's side or on the botters'?

Think before you post your answer. Think twice.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Beckie DeLey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2013-02-12 14:27:30 UTC
Playing the game themselves instead of letting a machine do it seems to be hard for some people. Let's hope more of them out themselves ITT.

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.
Zyshh
Doomheim
#198 - 2013-02-12 14:34:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyshh
Bravo, CCP ! BRAVO !

There are far too many "speshul" snowflakes in the game that need to be shown the error of their ways, that however "clever" they might think themselves, they are still just garden variety cheats.

All too often they figure the rules only apply to "the other guys"... WELL DONE !
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#199 - 2013-02-12 14:34:17 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
the irony is that cache scraping exists in eve's community purely because CCP havent got off their fat arses when it comes to industry to allow this kind of thing through the API or at least fix the UI to streamline the sheer volume of click u need to be marginality successful at industry and marketing.

so ccp will one again resort to slapping the wrists of the people who are trying to make the game more bearable purely because of omg-terrible UI / features they refuse to look at.

*slow-hand-claps*
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#200 - 2013-02-12 14:36:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Whitehound wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
First of all cache scraping can't be illegal because ...

Newsflash: it just got illegal.

You can biatch about it all day long or you can do what others do and respect CCP Sreegs' opinion.

It is quite easy. Which side are you on? CCP's side or on the botters'?

Think before you post your answer. Think twice.


So, besides not knowing the game you don't know about software licensing practices. Got it.

Now find me *one* EULA in the world that can declare anything illegal.

The only "EULAs" with such a power are the countries codex of law.

The games EULAs only define a binding contract (usually completely limiting the rights of the consumer) on what's allowed or not. Not on what's illegal.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials