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The Future of Wardecs

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Chantaz Midumulf
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#321 - 2013-01-27 12:18:59 UTC
Just read like 50% of the topic and personally i gotta say that EvE become "****** friendly".


Someone in the beggining said something about sharks, that non NPC corps are full of them.

Personally i think that are the idiots playing PvP in Highsec and Wardeccing high sec care bear corps, should just get thrown away to hell and banned.


Why?


I returned to EvE after 1 year. I joined a corp that seemed safe to me, but unfortunately i've met "A big shark" wich trapped me, asked to pay a fee for live and then killed.


I tried to recruit about 10 friends to the game. Only 1 out of 10 started playing.

Why? Cause like in every single game, people like playing with people. So when you're a newbie, you're asking for help, advices, perhaps join a corp that can help you out, not some NPC crap.

Now there's the problem. Either you get killed, harrased or scammed in a corp OR you make your own and you get WARDECCED to hell.


Well, 55k players can handle that. But do you think that EvE will ever be more popular? Not only it's a hard game to understand for new players, but also more people won't play the game, after they die hard and lose everything because of lack of knowledge. And i think, everyone should have their time to understand the game, not by the harsh way.


So to all PvP high sec players, GROW SOME BALLS and go fight an even opponent.
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#322 - 2013-01-27 17:31:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Celly S
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
A question deserves an answer, and there's a huge difference between can't fight back and won't fight back, hows that for a nuance?



Just to play Devil's advocate for a moment...
Who decides who can and who won't?
are you going to look at the amount of SP they have and say they won't because they have 84m sp?, or they can't because they have 10m?

you can't say there's a difference between item A and item B and that's the end of the story without stating how to tell that difference

for example, the 10m SP character might have all his/her skills in guns and ships while the 84m Sp character has it in SOV, leadership, Corp management and industry.. so just how "exactly" are you going to decided who "can't" and who "won't" with any semblance of certainty or credibility?

oh wait, I know, you saw them flying a BS into a mission room, so automatically they can, but won't... sure as long as we totally ignore the fact that fighting players and fighting NPCs (with an exception for most incursion runners) are totally and completely different in ALL respects from fits to tactics, so again we are left to question "who decides and how"

personally, on most of my toons I'm perfectly content to let you dec us, spend your money doing so, watch you fly around looking for a target and finding me/us sitting in a station doing something else entirely... and I have to be honest, Laughing at your "they won't fight me whaaaaaaa, it's EVE dammit, CCP make them fight me, I wanna fight and they don't and it's a sandbox dammit, they have to fight because I want them too" tears while you stomp your feet and jump up and down throwing a temper tantrum...

and I sit there knowing that as soon as you* dec me, I've won...

I'll/we'll even give you a little something for your iskies too,(we're not total arsehats) we'll smacktalk you in local with degrading and demoralizing remarks, not of course directly because we all know you're not going to respond unless we hit a nerve, but just general comments about how awesome and fulfilling it must be for someone to attack an obviously weaker opponent and how that must make them feel good at night after they log so they can "*cough* take matters into their own hands*cough* because everyone knows what kind of loosers live their lives so engrossed in something that their only pleasure is being a bully in space pixels... and of course we know those type people *cough* sleep alone*cough* anyway.

I know, I know, I'm a bad, bad, person sometimes...

*not "you" personally of course :P


but I digress...

o/
Celly

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#323 - 2013-01-27 17:47:28 UTC
Chantaz Midumulf wrote:

Now there's the problem. Either you get killed, harrased or scammed in a corp OR you make your own and you get WARDECCED to hell.


+1

I agree with most everything you wrote...

I would only point out that not all player corps are like what you described, in fact, most of the corps that are friendly with my corps are not that way.

We help players get a good footing, we share our experiences with them, all of us will buy a new guy some books or a ship or whatever to help them out and this is from the wallets of my corp members, not the corp wallet...

if we ever kill you, it's playing around and even sometimes "one shot too many" so we'll (when that happens) replace your implants if you had any (even if they are ones we gave you at first) and if you're past the 900k SP mark we'll give you the isks to update your clone again.
we'll even take you on lvl 4 missions with us and one of us will fly a logi dedicated to keeping you safe so you can go have some fun and earn some bounties too, we share the mission rewards to help you get standing, if there's loot from the wrecks that you need, we'll even give you some of that or let you loot and salvage the entire mission...
if you get popped by the rats, even if it's because you tried to hang longer than you should have (when no logi is there) we'll replace your ship for you too.

I think i can say with a fair amount of certainty that we're not the only people like that..

oh yeah and most importantly?.. when these folks we help out ask what they can do to repay us?, our answer is a simple "Help someone else out when you're able to, give them a leg up.. in short, just pay it forward"...

o/
Celly

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#324 - 2013-01-27 17:52:21 UTC
Deth2ALLwardecs

Against ALL Wardecs

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#325 - 2013-01-27 19:15:25 UTC
Devs, CSM and all other merry Eve players...

Im 4months old, and im still in CAS and im probably your average carebear, hopefully most of you wont stop reading now and try to keep listen to Eve from a beginners point... Eve is rough, its a challange, and its a game that requires you to think, i like that, ewen if im probably not your average Eve player... As some adressed in this thread, get friends, get allites, get strong, on the other hand people tell you trust no one, people will try to skam you, you can get wardecced, you can get suicide ganked etc... so who should i trust ?, you simply dont start eve and learn people by the heart ower a few days, so forming alliances takes time, and ewen longer in Eve as we loose alot of the social imput at the screen ie we cant read people on body language etc... So who should i trust as a new player, and thats alittle bit part of the problem, i need friends to build something, or know who to yoin, or what guild, to not end up in a crap guild... Its very easy for you that been in this game for several years, you know who is who, and have a friends base... i dont have that i have to build everything from scratch...

With that said my first suggestion, is this... i be alot more interested in trying something if i knew i could go back to CAS, but once i leave CAS, there is no going back, i will end up in one of three holding corps... and i know alot of people in CAS reason the same, couse CAS is active, friendly, do events, in many cases they are a player run corp...

My second suggestions, is that all corps can choose to at the start of each Month, pay a tax like the one that NPC corps have... and have concords protection exactly as a NPC corp have, i know many of you hard core PvPers will scream at this, but lets reason alittle, if i made a tiny corp got wardecced, i bascially would have to do what most do, turtle up abandon my corp probably loose a ship or two and then sit it out... no fun for you, and no fun for me... and thats sort of my point, you wont get the people that dont want to fight, to fight, and that brings me back to the tax, then make it costly...

My second suggestion, is also based upon getting time, time to be able to form something, create a corp that has a chanse to actually become something in Eve, ask yourself, how many of the new corps become a factor in eve ?, how old are the succesfull corps in Eve ?, you cant expect me to form a corp, gather people, setup a pos, gain strength so i can defend it all, and have it all destroyed before its ewen out of its cradle... give new corps a fighting chanse ?... <- And this is a catch 22 and why you have people turtle and drop their corps, couse its like a Bob with a gun, trying to fight Joe with a battleship... and ewen i know thats not pvp, thats owerun !

The basic line for me, is i want to build create research, and i like to do alittle of everything in Eve, im just not very good at the pvp aspects, atleast not yet, a few in CAS are trying to teach me and get me down to their operations in Null, but as said, i pay for Eve, and that should entail mt to do everything in the game, i dont care thats its less profitable, or if i cant produce as much , or if i cant reaserch as much, but i want to be able to do everything, i do pay for it... dont take away aspects of what i can do, instead of limit it in how much i can it...

We can argue back and fourth, if i should ewen play Eve or not, but a majority of all ore mined, and things built in Eve comes from carebears, some one need to fuel the war machine, and being a industrialist is something that is a career advertised as playable, so when all is said and done what you think your shiny battleship would cost if you dident have all the carebears mining and building ?

I let a few things out of my mind, just dont flame me to much lol and thanks for a great game !
Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
#326 - 2013-01-27 19:41:06 UTC
Fey Ivory wrote:
Devs, CSM and all other merry Eve players...

My second suggestion, is also based upon getting time, time to be able to form something, create a corp that has a chanse to actually become something in Eve, ask yourself, how many of the new corps become a factor in eve ?, how old are the succesfull corps in Eve ?, you cant expect me to form a corp, gather people, setup a pos, gain strength so i can defend it all, and have it all destroyed before its ewen out of its cradle... give new corps a fighting chanse ?... <- And this is a catch 22 and why you have people turtle and drop their corps, couse its like a Bob with a gun, trying to fight Joe with a battleship... and ewen i know thats not pvp, thats owerun !



Frankly, the main reason start-up corps fail is poor management or low activity.

Think about it a second, why would you put a POS up *before* you could defend it? You may as well paint a big target on your back if you do that.

Wardecs play a very useful part in the game, yes they do get abused, so does insurance and suicide ganking but that doesn't mean they should be removed. A wardec gives you a cheap way to learn pvp, or if you prefer not to fight then get some mercs to help you. In fact quite often you'll find players that will help just for the fight.

All the tools are there, you just have to be creative in how you think and go about things.
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#327 - 2013-01-27 19:53:07 UTC
Dyvim Slorm wrote:
Fey Ivory wrote:
Devs, CSM and all other merry Eve players...

My second suggestion, is also based upon getting time, time to be able to form something, create a corp that has a chanse to actually become something in Eve, ask yourself, how many of the new corps become a factor in eve ?, how old are the succesfull corps in Eve ?, you cant expect me to form a corp, gather people, setup a pos, gain strength so i can defend it all, and have it all destroyed before its ewen out of its cradle... give new corps a fighting chanse ?... <- And this is a catch 22 and why you have people turtle and drop their corps, couse its like a Bob with a gun, trying to fight Joe with a battleship... and ewen i know thats not pvp, thats owerun !



Frankly, the main reason start-up corps fail is poor management or low activity.

Think about it a second, why would you put a POS up *before* you could defend it? You may as well paint a big target on your back if you do that.

Wardecs play a very useful part in the game, yes they do get abused, so does insurance and suicide ganking but that doesn't mean they should be removed. A wardec gives you a cheap way to learn pvp, or if you prefer not to fight then get some mercs to help you. In fact quite often you'll find players that will help just for the fight.

All the tools are there, you just have to be creative in how you think and go about things.


I agree, its part of the catch 22, and why should people yoin my guild and help us build a pos, when they can yoin a already big guild that can defend it... you dont get people, unless you have stuff, and you dont get stuff unless you have people... things take time in Eve, and its one part i like, but you also want to try things out and grow on your own, i think thats why some try to do the wormhole thing...
Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
#328 - 2013-01-27 20:03:48 UTC
Fey Ivory wrote:

I agree, its part of the catch 22, and why should people yoin my guild and help us build a pos, when they can yoin a already big guild that can defend it... you dont get people, unless you have stuff, and you dont get stuff unless you have people... things take time in Eve, and its one part i like, but you also want to try things out and grow on your own, i think thats why some try to do the wormhole thing...


With the utmost respect, you sound like you're trying to fail before you've even started.

If you set set up a small well run corp, the question you should be asking is why someone *wouldn't* join. There are experienced players around that like to help start-ups and small corps but you'll never attract them if you start putting yourself down.

Eve reflects rl in some ways, if you try you may fail, but if you believe you will fail then you certainly will (barring extremely good luck).
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#329 - 2013-01-27 20:21:19 UTC
Dyvim Slorm wrote:
Fey Ivory wrote:

I agree, its part of the catch 22, and why should people yoin my guild and help us build a pos, when they can yoin a already big guild that can defend it... you dont get people, unless you have stuff, and you dont get stuff unless you have people... things take time in Eve, and its one part i like, but you also want to try things out and grow on your own, i think thats why some try to do the wormhole thing...


With the utmost respect, you sound like you're trying to fail before you've even started.

If you set set up a small well run corp, the question you should be asking is why someone *wouldn't* join. There are experienced players around that like to help start-ups and small corps but you'll never attract them if you start putting yourself down.

Eve reflects rl in some ways, if you try you may fail, but if you believe you will fail then you certainly will (barring extremely good luck).




You are kinda right, if i put myself to it, i probably could pull it off, but like most things in real life its a matter of time put into it, and like real life you balance factors, and after a few months i could as easilly have it all lost, in a war, not saying i would, but i could, and considering i mostly build, mine, it comes down to what i already have in CAS, i can do it all where i am... wich again is the core problem !, and im not alone to think like this, we are 500-1500 in CAS depending on day and time, why would i want to loose that for a unknown, and the fact once i leave i cant get it back, thre ewen are people in CAS that started Eve, left, played, killed of their character only to make a new one so they could get back into CAS, their other option would been to leave Eve... im not saying im right, im just pointing to things from my noobish side

And thanks for your input and trying to be encuraging
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#330 - 2013-01-27 21:36:05 UTC
Dyvim Slorm wrote:

Eve reflects rl in some ways, if you try you may fail, but if you believe you will fail then you certainly will (barring extremely good luck).


^^ truth^^

+1

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#331 - 2013-01-27 23:01:18 UTC
Wardecs are useless to the players about 90% of the time. Actual fights, with "RvB" being the notable and highly successful exception, are rare because most time folks just turtle up and hide.

It's just an ISK sink, and that pretty much seals the future and fate of wardecs.




"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Yim Sei
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#332 - 2013-01-27 23:11:03 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:


How about new taxes for corps?
A new corp would be stuck with 15% tax (on bounties and trades)- and all of it would go to CONCORD.
The more active a corp is (trades, bounties, standing, members etc) the lesser the CONCORD tax would be, up to the point where that tax is 0%.
Players would have to work for their corp to make it grow and get it tax free.
The corp would be valuable and nobody would easily leave or disband it.
Players would fight for their corp.
Hopefully.


I think there may be something here, also got me thinking :

Could also add benefits for pilots in a corp based on time.
Maybe related to tax - maybe something else.

Members leave to dodge a deck, they lose this 'loyalty' bonus and have to start again from zero (and it must hurt somehow - sec status or maybe reduction in standings relative to corp standing?)

This would also mean people would be happier joining corps with at least some kind of military prowess, or PvP arm.

Can't really be a bad thing as if you are going to risk forming a corp under these conditions then you need to have some balls (not currently required in forming a corp)

Additionally this could open up possibilites for a new 'agreement' between corps, something in between solo corp and alliance included into the system such as a contract between two corps for isk or items.
This where your indy corp hires a merc outfit whos payout is dependant on the indy corps losses.

If they stay docked the mercs get the full return on the contract BUT the idea is to let the indies keep mining, hawling missioning or whatever with protection.

It just seems to make corps more important imo, and not just something pilots flit between like TV channels.

There may of course be ways you clever people buck the system - so maybe some of your other clever people could expand this in a workable way?


Post with my main? This is my main - I just overtrain and overplay my alts.
Christopher Caldaris
Caldaris Enterprises LLC
#333 - 2013-01-27 23:11:36 UTC
No wars in High Security space, it's called High Security for a reason.

If you wardec someone in High Sec you should be prepared to face the full wrath of CONCORD.

Keep wars in Low and Null where they belong.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#334 - 2013-01-27 23:52:33 UTC
Christopher Caldaris wrote:
No wars in High Security space, it's called High Security for a reason.

If you wardec someone in High Sec you should be prepared to face the full wrath of CONCORD.

Keep wars in Low and Null where they belong.



Why?

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Rita Jita
Caldari Provisions
#335 - 2013-01-28 00:11:47 UTC
.

Founder of the "Haulers Channel"

Come Check It Out
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#336 - 2013-01-28 00:29:41 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Christopher Caldaris wrote:
No wars in High Security space, it's called High Security for a reason.

If you wardec someone in High Sec you should be prepared to face the full wrath of CONCORD.

Keep wars in Low and Null where they belong.



Why?



i too endorse risk free making alot of isk in high sec smacking the locals, bumping there mining barges around, filling up moons with offline pos and general being a **** and not have to worry about a thing!!
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#337 - 2013-01-28 01:32:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Celly S
Christopher Caldaris wrote:
No wars in High Security space, it's called High Security for a reason.

If you wardec someone in High Sec you should be prepared to face the full wrath of CONCORD.

Keep wars in Low and Null where they belong.




yes and no...

there is no need for a declaration of war in low or null and honestly?, if you're gonna p00n someone's world, why give them 24 hours advance notice?

also it's "high sec" not "totally safe sec" so while there is an expectation of a greater amount of safety, there's no guarantee of total safety.

As far as the wrath of concord is concerned?, if we look at it realistically, paying the fee to declare a wardec is nothing more than paying the sheriff to look the other way, so unfortunately, no wrath will be incurred.

Nice Ideal though, just not very realistic.

o/
Celly


PS. yes, I AM a high sec carebear for the most part and I understand that while it's aggravating, it's part of the game and the best (and most fun) thing to do is simply pull up a chair, grab some popcorn and soda and make the best out of it. :P

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Christopher Caldaris
Caldaris Enterprises LLC
#338 - 2013-01-28 03:35:23 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Christopher Caldaris wrote:
No wars in High Security space, it's called High Security for a reason.

If you wardec someone in High Sec you should be prepared to face the full wrath of CONCORD.

Keep wars in Low and Null where they belong.



Why?


Since it's not logical to have wars going on in the heart of your empire's space. The hubs of industry and commerce, the corruption of CONCORD to seemingly "look the other way" is absurd and frankly doesn't fit into the narrative of the game.

It feels tacked on and there only to annoy people into leaving their corps or wasting subscription time sitting in the station.

I was forced to leave my last 2 corps because of wardecs restricting me from enjoying the gameplay, which is the entire point of playing the game.

It's hard to explore the galaxy when you can't leave a station without being destroyed in 5 seconds...I don't have that type of ISK to repurchase and refit my ship every time I try to play.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#339 - 2013-01-28 06:47:41 UTC
Christopher Caldaris wrote:
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Christopher Caldaris wrote:
No wars in High Security space, it's called High Security for a reason.

If you wardec someone in High Sec you should be prepared to face the full wrath of CONCORD.

Keep wars in Low and Null where they belong.



Why?


Since it's not logical to have wars going on in the heart of your empire's space. The hubs of industry and commerce, the corruption of CONCORD to seemingly "look the other way" is absurd and frankly doesn't fit into the narrative of the game.

It feels tacked on and there only to annoy people into leaving their corps or wasting subscription time sitting in the station.

I was forced to leave my last 2 corps because of wardecs restricting me from enjoying the gameplay, which is the entire point of playing the game.

It's hard to explore the galaxy when you can't leave a station without being destroyed in 5 seconds...I don't have that type of ISK to repurchase and refit my ship every time I try to play.

Yes, because 2 countries going to war always go to a completely different area to wage it. Roll

What you are describing is a panty raid.

If you were forced to dock up and were helpless because of a war dec, you were in a poorly run corp and can do much, much better.

By the way, anyone can leave a station unmolested any time they wish. All they need do is make an appropriate undocking bookmark to warp to immediately. But that would require some forethought, actually being prepared for the possibility of war. Who would ever do something silly like that...

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#340 - 2013-01-28 07:34:50 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
Secondly, the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP).


The direction of changes over the past few years suggests otherwise. You want highsec to be a safe lala land where people can farm isk all day because money.

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