These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The Future of Wardecs

First post First post
Author
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#301 - 2013-01-19 12:13:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It's a player in highsec making really really low risk income.

Player driven economy.



So the 2.4 billion this guy makes a month is low income?

What are you even talking about? What?
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#302 - 2013-01-19 12:49:45 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It's a player in highsec making really really low risk income.

Player driven economy.



So the 2.4 billion this guy makes a month is low income?

What are you even talking about? What?



2.4 billion a month is just what it costs to PLEX my 4 accounts. I can easily pull in more than 4 billion a month.

With 3 hulks and an orca, I can fill the orca with 30 million ISK of ore in about 20 mins. 2-3 hours a day, 4-5 days a week = 4 billion a month.
Sharise Dragonstar
Big Strong
#303 - 2013-01-19 13:03:18 UTC
End of the day whatever the war dec mechanics are players who have no interest in ship to ship pvp will just stay docked or just not play at all.

I will either take the victim to grow a pair and go out and fight or take the aggressor to grow a bigger pair to target a more challenging victim rather than defenseless Indy corps. Neither will ever happen as its not the eve way. The strong prey on the weak and the weak die. The smart ones stay docked.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#304 - 2013-01-19 13:59:57 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Merouk Baas wrote:
While I'm for PVP and don't agree with sitting in a station, because some fun can be had shooting your enemies, you guys are in an argument about which people are worthy of being CCP's customers, and honestly CCP is the only entity that should have that kind of argument (internally).

You guys are customers outside a coffee shop arguing who's worthy and who isn't, to go inside and get some coffee.

Based on whether or not you use cup sleeves or spoons to mix the sugar in.

Seriously. You have $5 for coffee? Go in.



It is a one-sided argument.

I say there is room in the game for all of us. They can play the way they want, and I can play the way I want. They are the ones saying that everyone has to play their way, or GTFO.



Nope! You are saying you should be exempt. WE are saying you are not. You CAN play the game you want. The problem you are presenting, is that we can play the game we want as well.

By all means if you want to dock, or avoid a wardec, or pvp, you can! That's the beauty of Eve! You are ALLOWED to do just that.

The flipside of that coin, is we are allowed to wardec you, to camp you, to make it impossible for you to leave station.

I am not as harsh as Nat in saying you should leave, but I am an advocate of everyone having free choice and a say in it.

No one is exempt from anything in Eve. Everyone has the same right, and has access to an opinion. We are voicing ours against yours.

We are also saying that if Eve isn't for you, then Eve isn't for you.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#305 - 2013-01-19 14:12:25 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
luZk wrote:

Ooh so it's okay for you to market PVP , but spaceship PVP'ers can't PVP you?


They do not HAVE to buy things from the market. I don't have to log in or undock. It all evens out.


I'd just like to note one thing. Never have I said that you should not be able to war dec anyone. I'll I've said is that my corp has standing orders that when we are war decced, we don't undock. I do not understand how this system benefits anyone.



The people wardeccing you can wardec others. They still receive the benefits of being in war. It just doesn't benefit you.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Grenduk
Grey Manufacturing
#306 - 2013-01-19 15:10:23 UTC
Seems like a large percentage of the posts in this thread equate to "if you disagree with the current philosophy of this game, you should leave the game". Everyone thinking that should do some self reflection about aspects of the game they dislike.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#307 - 2013-01-19 15:11:48 UTC
Yea I'm not a big fan of people leaving, but at the same time I'd rather see the game have people who want to play Eve, not use Eve as a catalyst to play whatever game they came from =(

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#308 - 2013-01-19 15:42:04 UTC
Grenduk wrote:
Seems like a large percentage of the posts in this thread equate to "if you disagree with the current philosophy of this game, you should leave the game". Everyone thinking that should do some self reflection about aspects of the game they dislike.


No it's just that if you create a risk free environment like some people want, it goes against the whole structure of eve.

If people don't want to interact with other players, why play an MMO? You can't have your cake and eat it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#309 - 2013-01-19 16:04:33 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It's a player in highsec making really really low risk income.

Player driven economy.



So the 2.4 billion this guy makes a month is low income?

What are you even talking about? What?



2.4 billion a month is just what it costs to PLEX my 4 accounts. I can easily pull in more than 4 billion a month.

With 3 hulks and an orca, I can fill the orca with 30 million ISK of ore in about 20 mins. 2-3 hours a day, 4-5 days a week = 4 billion a month.

is someone here an idiot? Here, try this:

really-really-low-risk income.
(really really low risk) income
is making income with really really low risk

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Althalos Zerund
Perkone
Caldari State
#310 - 2013-01-19 16:27:11 UTC
Grenduk wrote:
Seems like a large percentage of the posts in this thread equate to "if you disagree with the current philosophy of this game, you should leave the game". Everyone thinking that should do some self reflection about aspects of the game they dislike.

Might be why the playerbase is low.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#311 - 2013-01-19 18:01:31 UTC
Althalos Zerund wrote:
Grenduk wrote:
Seems like a large percentage of the posts in this thread equate to "if you disagree with the current philosophy of this game, you should leave the game". Everyone thinking that should do some self reflection about aspects of the game they dislike.

Might be why the playerbase is low.

Everyone immediately just ends up leaving.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#312 - 2013-01-21 23:22:18 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
I don't know about industrial missioning, but you can mine, and transport really well from an undecable ~NPC corp~.

Hopefully CCP will finally make that a lot harder so that people can't just hang out in NPC corps for years and avoid all combat PVP that isn't a suicide gank.

No, people need options to be made safe by the combination of game mechanics and NPC defenders.

I'm not sure if this is a masterful bit of trolling, or you're the worst Goon ever.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#313 - 2013-01-22 00:36:17 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Yea I'm not a big fan of people leaving, but at the same time I'd rather see the game have people who want to play Eve, not use Eve as a catalyst to play whatever game they came from =(


It's like people coming from the country into the city because of it's cool clubs, crazy people, rush hour etc. Then, after a few weeks of living there, they start to complain that it is too loud, people are weird and traffic is too much.

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#314 - 2013-01-22 01:02:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
I'm a realist, and I consider myself a rather rational individual.

So no, I really don't feel bad telling anyone to find another game to play if the pvp is a big enough deal that you would quit anyways because it happened to you.

Or should I say.

Anyonoe that doesn't want to do pvp, but accepts that there's a chance they may end up engaging in it, should come play EVE.

Anyone below that line, does not belong here.


I'm not saying anything the developers aren't, I'm not a developer so I get to be blunt about it.
Lucky me.

Now if CCP wants to write me a check twice a month, I'll gladly shut up and kiss everyone's ass equally.
It ain't gonna happen though. It takes more than just great ideas to be a developer. Cool
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#315 - 2013-01-22 02:27:53 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
Thanks for starting this thread and for all the contributions thus far. The range of opinions here echoes the sentiment that the war declaration mechanic is a complicated subject that often polarizes the opinions of those who care about it. This session was one of the most heated debates I took part in during the whole summit.

Firstly, let me state clearly that there are no plans to change the war declaration mechanic into a system that caters to mutual high sec pvp only.

Secondly, the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP).

I often think back to my experiences in Ultima Online when discussing the war dec system. Removing it's teeth would be akin to introducing the Trammel/Felucca divide, for those that remember it.

However, I expressed an opposing opinion during the discussion because I felt that (with the exception of Trebor) the voice of the CSM was one sided in favour of the "sharks" and I wanted the opposing argument to have a voice in the room, I feel it's important. I expect the CSM to be cognizant of and consider the wishes and opinions of all player types in EVE and there are a good many players who don't like being war decced. As a business, we would be fools not to consider the impact this system is having on those customers.

Prior to my first comment, Hans made a fine statement that one of the good parts of the war mechanic is that groups can engage in fights where they can control the numbers involved, a mutual conflict in high security space.

I then posed the question of whether the CSM thought mutual high sec pvp was goal of the system, or was the goal of the system to facilitate one sided wars? Admittedly my devils advocacy is not obvious from the minutes but I was genuinely interested in what they thought was the goal of the system and to judge the extent with which they were considering the wishes of all players that are affected by it.

Part of the reason this system has been so problematic and difficult to balance is because there are so many strong and passionate opinions about what the system should be.

I hope this clears things up, thanks for reading.

-Solomon



so why have duels? Am I incorrect that people can still warp in on a 1v1 and "help" one side or the other, or blow up both sides and collect loot? I'm I'm wrong, and the duels are protected completely, then I understand it. I don't like it, but I understand it.

However, If I'm right, then duels are no different from what we have now. Fleet up and hope people keep their promises. The only way that the duels become a useful bit of coding is if we at some point remove the ability to have regular combat in hi sec. If you don't plan to remove it, then you've spent time coding this social tool for pretty much no reason. I don't believe you coded it for no reason. pls explain if wrong.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#316 - 2013-01-22 02:42:12 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
I don't know about industrial missioning, but you can mine, and transport really well from an undecable ~NPC corp~.

Hopefully CCP will finally make that a lot harder so that people can't just hang out in NPC corps for years and avoid all combat PVP that isn't a suicide gank.

No, people need options to be made safe by the combination of game mechanics and NPC defenders.

I'm not sure if this is a masterful bit of trolling, or you're the worst Goon ever.

If you actually think I want more CONCORD in our ~safe & rewarding~ highsec, I don't know what to do ....

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#317 - 2013-01-22 03:02:23 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:

However, If I'm right, then duels are no different from what we have now. Fleet up and hope people keep their promises. The only way that the duels become a useful bit of coding is if we at some point remove the ability to have regular combat in hi sec. If you don't plan to remove it, then you've spent time coding this social tool for pretty much no reason. I don't believe you coded it for no reason. pls explain if wrong.

Duels are a practical way to set up a limited engagement without having to do stupid tricks with the suspect system. It makes consensual PVP in highsec as simple as it gets. Yes, people can still interfere. Yes, I *will* be watching those two carebears shoot each other into structure so I can warp in a tornado and gank them. Yes, some people will bring RR and ruin your day. Hell, I might bring RR to an "honorable duel" between two people I don't know, just to sully one carebear's name and possibly start him on the path to the Dark Side.

The real problem with PVP in highsec overall is station hugging. There are far too many people who won't fight away from the safety of a station. Even when I'm outnumber 10 to 1 by trade hub campers, I can sit on a can 300 km off station and they won't engage...because out there, you're playing for keeps. There's no hope of tanking for 60 seconds so you can dock. I'll predict now that 85% of these duels will begin fighting inside the docking radius of a station.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Singular Snowflake
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#318 - 2013-01-22 08:42:54 UTC
Grenduk wrote:
Seems like a large percentage of the posts in this thread equate to "if you disagree with the current philosophy of this game, you should leave the game".


If the alternative is to mutilate the game into something not recognizable as EVE Online: the harsh spaceship game, much more people will leave than the few hellokitty-miners who demand absolute safety in all their actions. Good riddance.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#319 - 2013-01-22 09:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Psychotic Monk wrote:
This is a trend that has been going on for some time. In order to be a belligerent undesirable in highsec you've always needed to jump through some hoops, but they keep adding hoops and they keep getting smaller and smaller.

being badass is a "serious business" (c)
you want to be bad and you want it to be easy? Lol

Psychotic Monk wrote:

I mean, let's take can flipping as an example. Apparently having an entire corp able to shoot you wasn't enough? It has to be the entirety of eve?

as i said already: you only can-flipping carebear. Why do you care if there will be 1 carebear who can engage you or it will be 5000000 carebears? They WON"T engage you anyway.

Or (as happened in reality) carebears can provide little risk for those "badasses". Cool
and badasses happened to be not so ELITE? What?

Psychotic Monk wrote:

Or what about the nerfs to the Orca that have made it consistently less and less useful to those living the Suddenly Ninjas lifestyle?

Ninja is a style of whole life. It's not a weekend party what you want it to be.
Good ninja starts his training from little age and keeps it till he killed.
Again: want to be badass? Be it! Don't ask for easy mode. Easy mode is for bears.

Psychotic Monk wrote:

And what have we ever gotten in return?

1. Bear tears
2. Loot
3. Salvage
4. ... ?
Isn't it why you go into badass life?

Psychotic Monk wrote:

I could write entire books about the ways in which CCP has taken a look at some of the incredible people doing fantastic work in highsec and decided that they need to be weighed down so they can't jump as high or run as fast.

I only know about 1 such case when people "could jump as high and run as fast" so they evaded CONCORD as long as they wanted. Which was exploit.

PS: mandatory comment about tears?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Singular Snowflake
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#320 - 2013-01-22 11:10:55 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

Again: want to be badass? Be it! Don't ask for easy mode. Easy mode is for bears.


Where does it say easy mode is for "bears"? I know many "bears" who do not want to be treated as retards or children. EVE can, and should be just as demanding, engaging and harsh for every occupation.