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The Future of Wardecs

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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#281 - 2013-01-19 00:38:29 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

You don't want to do combat, I don't want to mine.

Because I don't want to mine, I'm subject to the impact of market PVP.

Because you don't want to fight, you're subject to being undefended in war.

The difference is, I accept the consequence of my having no interest in one part of the game.


I get war dec'ed, I log out. How is that not accepting the consequences?
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#282 - 2013-01-19 00:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

"I get deced, I undock with a billion isk ship and lose, or I dock and make nothing."

As if those are your only two options.


Stop being bad at EVE , guy.


You don't get it. It isn't that I lose a billion ISK ship. I lose the 1 billion ISK that I didn't earn.

I am not bad at EVE. War dec, I bore the dec'er by not undocking. No war dec, I undock and make 1 billion ISK a week.

You want to kill me. I don't want to kill you, nor have you kill me. I don't give you the chance to kill me. I win, you lose.

It is the people that dec industrialists, then get bored when they won't undock, that are bad at EVE.


Oh i see what is going on here... you nearly had me there Big smile

This is just some null sec guy making a stealth "nerf high sec post". You feel picked on because you are unable to make the 1 billion isk per week that you are entitled to, free of risk in a player driven economy. haha nice try Blink

No eve players existence can be that sad... Right?Shocked

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#283 - 2013-01-19 01:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
LHA Tarawa wrote:

Let's say you dec me, and as soon as one of us loses 200 million ISK worth of ships, the war ends. So, I undock and fight you, the war ends. Then, the next minute I get another dec by someone that wants to PVP, because now they know they can get fights. Then I spend all my time at war instead of in belts making ISK.



Okay lets flesh this story out a bit...

So i war dec you and you contact me and say;

You: why did you war us? We just want to mine in piece.
Me: just doing it for a bit of fun, no hard feelings.
You: well we are just going to stay docked
Me: If you stay docked we will war dec you forever, if you fight we will leave you to mine. We wil only fly t1 cruisers if you prefer?
You: okay...

So we fight and ships are lost on both sides. Obviously we win Big smile but both sides learn something and we go our separate ways... However, a couple days later you get war decked by another entity....

You: hello again. we have just been war decked by people who like to fight... will you be our allies?
Me: Yes

Two years down the line, we are co-leaders of a coalition that has just taken over all of Goonswarm space and officially won eve Cool

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#284 - 2013-01-19 01:21:33 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:

Okay lets flesh this story out a bit...

So i war dec you and you contact me and say;

[i]You: why did you war us? We just want to mine in piece.
Me: just doing it for a bit of fun, no hard feelings.
You: well we are just going to stay docked
Me: If you stay docked we will war dec you forever, if you fight we will leave you to mine. We wil only fly t1 cruisers if you prefer?


We drop to NPC corp leaving 1 alt that I never even log into behind just to hold the corp open. You get bored and go away. We reform the corp and go on ignoring you.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#285 - 2013-01-19 01:22:49 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:

Oh i see what is going on here... you nearly had me there Big smile

This is just some null sec guy making a stealth "nerf high sec post". You feel picked on because you are unable to make the 1 billion isk per week that you are entitled to, free of risk in a player driven economy. haha nice try Blink

No eve players existence can be that sad... Right?Shocked


I need 2.4 billion a month to fund my 4 accounts on PLEX.
luZk
Fivrelde Corp
#286 - 2013-01-19 01:25:40 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
[
No you're not, you're a extremely small minority.

Because most of us understand the game we're playing, you do not.


PS: Let me say this again.
I. DO. NOT. PVP.

I'm just not a *****.



If you do not PVP, then you are the same "small" minority that I am.

According to a presentation I saw a few years ago, CCP says that 80% of toons never show up as a killer on a kill mail. 80% is small minority?


But you do PVP, you just market PVP and you dont even know it.

What do you think would happen to the ore you mine if spaceships was'nt blown up all the time? You would earn very little ISK thats what. Everytime a spaceship is blown up your ore is worth a little more. It's ideas like yours that would ruin EVE.. EVEN for you in the end. Dont you get it?

http://i.imgur.com/1dl4DM6.jpg
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#287 - 2013-01-19 01:26:49 UTC
You weren't trolling... you really are that pathetic Straight

I hope you are not an i leadership position in the corp you are in because you are going to make everyone in that corps
experience so miserable.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#288 - 2013-01-19 01:30:57 UTC
luZk wrote:

But you do PVP, you just market PVP and you dont even know it.

What do you think would happen to the ore you mine if spaceships was'nt blown up all the time? You would earn very little ISK thats what. Everytime a spaceship is blown up your ore is worth a little more. It's ideas like yours that would ruin EVE.. EVEN for you in the end. Dont you get it?


There are lots and lots of people that like to PVP, and lots and lots of those people PVP each other, creating more than enough demand for ships.

Me not logging in for a week every other month or so, does not create demand for ships.
luZk
Fivrelde Corp
#289 - 2013-01-19 01:34:18 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
luZk wrote:

But you do PVP, you just market PVP and you dont even know it.

What do you think would happen to the ore you mine if spaceships was'nt blown up all the time? You would earn very little ISK thats what. Everytime a spaceship is blown up your ore is worth a little more. It's ideas like yours that would ruin EVE.. EVEN for you in the end. Dont you get it?


There are lots and lots of people that like to PVP, and lots and lots of those people PVP each other, creating more than enough demand for ships.

Me not logging in for a week every other month or so, does not create demand for ships.


Ooh so it's okay for you to market PVP , but spaceship PVP'ers can't PVP you?

http://i.imgur.com/1dl4DM6.jpg
Merouk Baas
#290 - 2013-01-19 01:36:32 UTC
I believe that's what he's saying, yes.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#291 - 2013-01-19 01:37:32 UTC
luZk wrote:

Ooh so it's okay for you to market PVP , but spaceship PVP'ers can't PVP you?


They do not HAVE to buy things from the market. I don't have to log in or undock. It all evens out.


I'd just like to note one thing. Never have I said that you should not be able to war dec anyone. I'll I've said is that my corp has standing orders that when we are war decced, we don't undock. I do not understand how this system benefits anyone.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#292 - 2013-01-19 01:49:23 UTC
At this point it doesn't seem LHA Tarawa is arguing for removal of wardecs, but rather that combat avoidance is a valid strategy.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#293 - 2013-01-19 02:23:53 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
At this point it doesn't seem LHA Tarawa is arguing for removal of wardecs, but rather that combat avoidance is a valid strategy.


Slightly more than that.

The CSM notes talk about how 70-80% of war decs there is no fighting. NO ONE mentions why.

A war dec totally shuts down an industrial corp. We can't mine, we can't mission, we can't transport stuff to or from market.

The reason my corp has an absolute "do not undock in anything larger than a shuttle" during war is because we want the war to go away so we can get back to business. The ONLY thing we get from fighting is longer, and more frequent war decs.

Combat avoidance is not only a valid tactic for any given war dec that comes your way... it is the ONLY valid tactic to decrease the duration and frequency of war decs.

This is why 70-80% of war decs result in no fighting.
Grenduk
Grey Manufacturing
#294 - 2013-01-19 02:34:34 UTC
Wardecs seem so pointless as anyone with half a brain just makes out-of-corp alts to move goods and contracts crap back and forth. So decs hurt the new, stupid, and careless while just annoying every real industrialist.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#295 - 2013-01-19 02:35:02 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
A war dec totally shuts down an industrial corp. We can't mine, we can't mission, we can't transport stuff to or from market.

I don't know about industrial missioning, but you can mine, and transport really well from an undecable ~NPC corp~.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#296 - 2013-01-19 02:36:34 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:

Okay lets flesh this story out a bit...

So i war dec you and you contact me and say;

[i]You: why did you war us? We just want to mine in piece.
Me: just doing it for a bit of fun, no hard feelings.
You: well we are just going to stay docked
Me: If you stay docked we will war dec you forever, if you fight we will leave you to mine. We wil only fly t1 cruisers if you prefer?


We drop to NPC corp leaving 1 alt that I never even log into behind just to hold the corp open. You get bored and go away. We reform the corp and go on ignoring you.

This is actually a very real problem with the current wardec system and should be prevented, or considered an exploit.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#297 - 2013-01-19 02:39:12 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I do not understand how this system benefits anyone.

It benefits every industrialist when you aren't in space, diluting the market with competing products. It especially benefits those capable of operating under the threat of war.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#298 - 2013-01-19 02:41:25 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
I don't know about industrial missioning, but you can mine, and transport really well from an undecable ~NPC corp~.

Hopefully CCP will finally make that a lot harder so that people can't just hang out in NPC corps for years and avoid all combat PVP that isn't a suicide gank.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#299 - 2013-01-19 03:55:26 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
I don't know about industrial missioning, but you can mine, and transport really well from an undecable ~NPC corp~.

Hopefully CCP will finally make that a lot harder so that people can't just hang out in NPC corps for years and avoid all combat PVP that isn't a suicide gank.

No, people need options to be made safe by the combination of game mechanics and NPC defenders.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#300 - 2013-01-19 03:56:46 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

"I get deced, I undock with a billion isk ship and lose, or I dock and make nothing."

As if those are your only two options.


Stop being bad at EVE , guy.


You don't get it. It isn't that I lose a billion ISK ship. I lose the 1 billion ISK that I didn't earn.

I am not bad at EVE. War dec, I bore the dec'er by not undocking. No war dec, I undock and make 1 billion ISK a week.

You want to kill me. I don't want to kill you, nor have you kill me. I don't give you the chance to kill me. I win, you lose.

It is the people that dec industrialists, then get bored when they won't undock, that are bad at EVE.


Oh i see what is going on here... you nearly had me there Big smile

This is just some null sec guy making a stealth "nerf high sec post". You feel picked on because you are unable to make the 1 billion isk per week that you are entitled to, free of risk in a player driven economy. haha nice try Blink

No eve players existence can be that sad... Right?Shocked

It's a player in highsec making really really low risk income.

Player driven economy.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?