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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

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Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#2621 - 2013-01-29 14:49:36 UTC
ClickNWhir wrote:
POS fix please. I cant think of anything that would make me happier. Except maybe a strip club in space....but people would probably steal my strippers because the strip club would probably suck like the POS system.

Now I'm sad again.

cnw



Yeah, strip clubs would be awesome... :P

on a different note, in the next few days, I'm going to be putting up 2 more POSes... I sure wish I could look forward to them NOT being the headache i know they're going to end up being until CCP fixes this stuff. :(

but my corpies need places to run their jobs and such, so as a responsible CEO, I must take care of my people...

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#2622 - 2013-01-29 15:26:10 UTC
I think the thread has moved from:

"We want modular POS revamp and we want it yesterday!"

...to...

"We understand our demands may take time, but fix the big issues ASAP please!"

Which in all honesty may not be a bad thing.

Friends
Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#2623 - 2013-01-29 16:24:18 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
I think the thread has moved from:

"We want modular POS revamp and we want it yesterday!"

...to...

"We understand our demands may take time, but fix the big issues ASAP please!"

Which in all honesty may not be a bad thing.




As a former programmer, I completely agree with Hakan ..... after learning GW-BASIC and Pascal in high school in the late 80's, Ada in the early 90's, and HTML in the late 90's through the early part of the first decade of the new millenium (along with Flash, Shockwave, using Dreamweaver, etc., etc.,) I decided to hang up my programmer's hat and moved into Cisco.






Celly Smunt wrote:
Balder Verdandi wrote:


I honestly can't believe that they cannot take code from elsewhere in the game "that works" and scale it towards a corporate tower, or for lack of a better term, a corporate outpost.

It would function just like NPC stations or alliance built outposts in 0.0 except it would be at the corporate level. Some functions like cloning/medical services, repair services, and insurance wouldn't be available ..... however since all services aren't available at every station, the functionality I speak of translates over to a corp outpost rather well.

Modular POS'es (aka modPOS) would function just like outposts and stations; hangars, factories, labs, and refinery services would be simple add-ons that could be offlined/onlined at will, with the proper permissions, and would be available to all corp personnel (even remote research jobs from NPC stations for blueprints).

Even the artwork is already in the game. There are NPC hubs we've all shot at (Serpentis Hideout, anyone?) and good examples of modPOS'es (Forgotten Frontier Quarantine Outpost for example) that would simply need functionality added to them, that are modular, and wouldn't need new artwork since it's already in game and optimized.

Let's see if CCP can get on board with this.



There's actually another great post such as this about using the current "outpost" mechanics as a template and just scaling down or using already in-game graphics several pages into this thread.

+100

:P

o/
Celly





This would have been my post, however it's buried somewhere around page 55 and no one will read all 132 pages, nor do I expect them. I'm hoping that someone will (hopefully) use this idea to realize that while CCP has their hands full with the POS problems, they have folks helping them by providing solutions that are "outside the box".



Likes for you both!


Long live the failure of "Unified Inventory"!

POS fix dated back to 2006!
Astrojet
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2624 - 2013-01-30 02:51:18 UTC
This issue will not go away... And neither will we.
Newt Rondanse
Magnificent Mayhem Mining
#2625 - 2013-01-30 04:29:00 UTC
Astrojet wrote:
This issue will not go away... And neither will we.


Actually, a lot of people might.

People seriously burn out on POS management, especially in larger organizations.
Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#2626 - 2013-01-30 10:31:05 UTC
CCP Seagull wrote:
Hey all

Thank you for your participation in this discussion.

First, let me spell out what we agree on in CCP:

  • The current starbase system has a number of usability problems and design issues that cause pain for pretty much anyone who uses a starbase.
  • People use starbases for a number of different purposes in the game, and many of the areas of the game where they form a key part, are ones we haven't iterated on in a long time - or the starbases are so fundamental to a type of gameplay, that the shortcomings of the existing system are felt daily.
  • Lots more people are affected by starbases and starbase-related mechanics in the game, than just the people that manage them - and there are many cases where they are managed and used by "Enablers" and "Instigators" who use the capabilities of the starbase in the schemes of a larger group.
  • Structures that players create, own, build and do stuff with is a very cool thing. We can see tons of potential in how a re-vamped system could both fix the stuff that's broken about the existing system, and open up for all kinds of exciting new things for both new and old players to do in EVE.

For all of these reasons, we wanted to create a new and better system, and started work to design and prototype an approach dubbed "modular POS:es" last release - the system you have heard about in various places.

The result was design work and a prototype, where the prototype and art requirements were centered on stuff that was very cool for the person creating the starbase. This was not the entire ambition of the design, but it was where the prototype and art requirements were focused. Because there were too many open questions around the functionality outside the features for starbase creation, we could not responsibly green light the design to go into production for the summer expansion. When we talk about "the POS system" only affecting a "small portion of the community", we are referring to the focus of the prototype, not to the current starbase system or the concept of the full "modular POS system" - but this does not come across well in the CSM Summit minutes.

The potential for player created and owned structures in EVE is great. But just like both me and CCP Unifex talked about in our recent devblogs, and in the summit sessions, we need to work out how we can realize each piece of that, using our new processes. One expansion worth of work won't be able to address all the problems with the current system, while also giving us all the new possibilities. While we weren't ready to commit to implementing the prototype we have at the moment, we are not abandoning either starbases or their potential.

You will see the first results of our new way of planning expansions towards the end of February, and you can follow the process through the CSM participation and also some updates I'll be giving. I can't and won't promise that specific features or fixes will be part of the summer expansion until we have gone through our pre-production phase.

Thanks for reading this, and for engaging in this discussion.


This is by far the politest "no, you can't have that toy yet" I've ever received.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#2627 - 2013-01-30 19:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Celly S
Balder Verdandi wrote:

This would have been my post, however it's buried somewhere around page 55 and no one will read all 132 pages, nor do I expect them. I'm hoping that someone will (hopefully) use this idea to realize that while CCP has their hands full with the POS problems, they have folks helping them by providing solutions that are "outside the box".

Likes for you both!

Thank you and here you go: pg 113 i think...

Balder Verdandi wrote:

Let's break this down into a couple smaller ideas first because as a former programmer I know it can't all be done at once ..... but if you look both inside the box, and outside it, you can find solutions to most of the problems quickly.



In-Game Art and its effects on the game

Why are you guys trying to re-invent the wheel? You have literally TONS of in-game art you could use, albeit with some changes in color and appearance, which is already optimized for gameplay that won't effect it, and that would be more than effective in setting up a modular POS:

- Wolf Burgan's Hideout could be used as a small tower.

- Fort Kumar could be a large tower.

- Serpentis Hideout could be a medium tower/modular POS.

- Sansha's Hub as an example of another style of modular POS.

- Sansha's Occupied Mining Colony could be useful for moon mining operations, and it could serve as a large modular POS.

- Elohim X-Instinct LADAR site could also be another modular POS that you could upgrade over time.

- Forgotten Frontier Quarantine Outpost would be a useful example of a small/medium modular POS.




Security and Access on modular towers/POS's

Think corporate outpost using alliance outposts as the primer.

This could be addressed by simply having the same initernal mechanics of an outpost or station with individual hangars and a corp hangar with it's seven slots applied to the modular tower/POS. Since the backend mechanics for this are already built into the game, you simply tailor them around a modular tower and treat it like an outpost except that it cannot be "taken over" like an outpost. And if you need more room, it's modular; you simply add it.

The biggest issue we have with managing towers is how the access rights are setup. If you could lose the drop down lists (example: "Based at ..... ") and simply make a checkbox like you have for titles (example: "View" checked=you can see items but cannot take, "Take" checked = "View" and can place/remove items and automatically checks "View")

Having individual hangars, and/or allowing them, based on say new players to a WH corp, would eliminate the concerns 99% of us have about corporate theft and would solve the problems with inventory and loot when it comes to who owns what.

Gameplay

Towers should continue to provide what they offer now in the form of bonuses/defense/etc., and other than revamping some of the code on how they operate, they should continue to provide the services they offer now.

And since they are modular, adding and removing sections to a modular tower would be just like adding/removing from an outpost.



yes, I have actually read every page of this thread so far :P
(i just don't always remember who posted what)

o/
Celly

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#2628 - 2013-01-30 20:09:47 UTC
Celly Smunt wrote:
ClickNWhir wrote:
POS fix please. I cant think of anything that would make me happier. Except maybe a strip club in space....but people would probably steal my strippers because the strip club would probably suck like the POS system.

Now I'm sad again.

cnw



Yeah, strip clubs would be awesome... :P

on a different note, in the next few days, I'm going to be putting up 2 more POSes... I sure wish I could look forward to them NOT being the headache i know they're going to end up being until CCP fixes this stuff. :(

but my corpies need places to run their jobs and such, so as a responsible CEO, I must take care of my people...




Actually .... one of the NPC examples I used does have a strip club ..... it says it right on the structure :)

Long live the failure of "Unified Inventory"!

POS fix dated back to 2006!
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#2629 - 2013-01-30 20:21:06 UTC
Why we can not tip a professional EVE stripper in professional EVE bar, in Professional EVE POS? Why CCP? Its not all about spaceships. Strippers are important too.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#2630 - 2013-01-31 19:04:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Celly S
Balder Verdandi wrote:

Actually .... one of the NPC examples I used does have a strip club ..... it says it right on the structure :)


http://evetravel.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/2012-03-20-02-22-12.jpg <- this one...

and My son showed me a Minmatar (i think) outpost that had a small sign on it too. :)

I've actually been fairly excited about the prospect of being able to run a bar or other type establishment in EvE since I first heard folks talking about it back before WiS ended up looking like it's not going to happen, or not going to happen any time soon.

o/
Celly

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Justin Ackaris
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2631 - 2013-02-01 11:10:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Justin Ackaris
So, from actually reading 53 (pages of responses) in this thread then sifting for CCP responses of the whole thread, I got CCP Garant and CCP Seagull.

In 132 pages of responses for POS fixes.

Does anyone want to work out the responses rate????

BTW, I'm all for POS reform. I was gearing up to occupy an Alliance WH on behalf of the Corp but never made it in. Reading made this occupation and operation to be a 'large' operation that I'd like to see made easier. This would benefit our Corp/Alliance in High/Low/WH as this point in time.

Fully support this thread.

Edits in brackets
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#2632 - 2013-02-01 13:14:13 UTC
I have a vision:

A player owned cargo pad is moored in space. To begin with, it is used for mining ops and eventually processing facilities are added to it.
At some point the pad is abandoned, probably because it was no longer needed, but bullet.holes and scorch marks on its exterior point to a more violent explanation. Pirates take over the pad and add docking facilities and a maintenance hanger. Over time it is added to further as more pirates come into the system. Eventually, a large alliance rolls in and absorbs the smaller pirate corporation. The pad becomes an outpost used for holding spare ships in times of war and depositing cargo from the empire's as it filters out to the surrounding systems. More modules and defences are added and what was a little cargo pad is now a station. The Alliance becomes a founder of a new Coalition and the station is chosen to be their main hub. This station becomes a hive of activity, not only producing and selling much of what is needed by its residents, but their close allies as well. Traders come from all over to sell their wares. While they are there, they use the local entertainment; bars and casinos, skin clubs and tattoo parlors. All the while, the Alliance is raking in a small.fortune every day from the token docking fee. 1,000 isk doesn't sound a lot, but when you get over 100,000 visits a day, it helps pay the fuel bills...

Make my vision a reality CCP!

Friends
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2633 - 2013-02-01 13:33:18 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
I have a vision:

A player owned cargo pad is moored in space. To begin with, it is used for mining ops and eventually processing facilities are added to it.
At some point the pad is abandoned, probably because it was no longer needed, but bullet.holes and scorch marks on its exterior point to a more violent explanation. Pirates take over the pad and add docking facilities and a maintenance hanger. Over time it is added to further as more pirates come into the system. Eventually, a large alliance rolls in and absorbs the smaller pirate corporation. The pad becomes an outpost used for holding spare ships in times of war and depositing cargo from the empire's as it filters out to the surrounding systems. More modules and defences are added and what was a little cargo pad is now a station. The Alliance becomes a founder of a new Coalition and the station is chosen to be their main hub. This station becomes a hive of activity, not only producing and selling much of what is needed by its residents, but their close allies as well. Traders come from all over to sell their wares. While they are there, they use the local entertainment; bars and casinos, skin clubs and tattoo parlors. All the while, the Alliance is raking in a small.fortune every day from the token docking fee. 1,000 isk doesn't sound a lot, but when you get over 100,000 visits a day, it helps pay the fuel bills...

Make my vision a reality CCP!


How are you going to get 100,000 visits per day?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#2634 - 2013-02-01 15:24:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakan MacTrew
Malcanis wrote:
How are you going to get 100,000 visits per day?

You would only need 73 docks per minute to achieve over 100,000 per day.

I know it's massively over the top, but even if it was 10% of that, a mere 7.5 docks per minute, you would still recieve over 10 million isk per day (@ 1k isk per dock)

Should a fee be a meager 10,000 isk and you average 2 docks per minute over a 23 hour day your still pulling in 27.6 million isk. That's 193.2 million isk per week or 828 million isk per month.

I would make the fee scaleable by standings as well, set by the Corp/Alliance/Coalition command.

Friends
Malkev
Tribal Liberation Force
#2635 - 2013-02-03 01:00:19 UTC
As a WH dweller and T2 producer, I can confirm that POSs make me Sad, What?, Oops, X, Straight, Ugh, and Evil.
Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#2636 - 2013-02-03 12:29:05 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
I have a vision:

A player owned cargo pad is moored in space. To begin with, it is used for mining ops and eventually processing facilities are added to it.
At some point the pad is abandoned, probably because it was no longer needed, but bullet.holes and scorch marks on its exterior point to a more violent explanation. Pirates take over the pad and add docking facilities and a maintenance hanger. Over time it is added to further as more pirates come into the system. Eventually, a large alliance rolls in and absorbs the smaller pirate corporation. The pad becomes an outpost used for holding spare ships in times of war and depositing cargo from the empire's as it filters out to the surrounding systems. More modules and defences are added and what was a little cargo pad is now a station. The Alliance becomes a founder of a new Coalition and the station is chosen to be their main hub. This station becomes a hive of activity, not only producing and selling much of what is needed by its residents, but their close allies as well. Traders come from all over to sell their wares. While they are there, they use the local entertainment; bars and casinos, skin clubs and tattoo parlors. All the while, the Alliance is raking in a small.fortune every day from the token docking fee. 1,000 isk doesn't sound a lot, but when you get over 100,000 visits a day, it helps pay the fuel bills...

Make my vision a reality CCP!




I don't want my corporate station turning into Jita. We're not looking to make fees off of docking, just a fix to how we manage the modPOS and make using it easier.

If you want to charge fees, go to 0.0 space for it.

Long live the failure of "Unified Inventory"!

POS fix dated back to 2006!
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#2637 - 2013-02-04 16:59:35 UTC
POS love bump...

I hate to see this thread wither away... there's simply too much good stuff in it. :)

o/
Celly

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.
Infinite Force
#2638 - 2013-02-04 17:50:49 UTC
Celly Smunt wrote:
POS love bump...

I hate to see this thread wither away... there's simply too much good stuff in it. :)

o/
Celly

Agreed.

Make continued corp/alliance membership based on whether or not your Corp Members have posted in this thread or if your Corp CEOs have posted :)

Squeeky wheel will get the attention.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#2639 - 2013-02-04 17:54:21 UTC
Balder Verdandi wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
I wrote stuff.

I don't want my corporate station turning into Jita. We're not looking to make fees off of docking, just a fix to how we manage the modPOS and make using it easier.

If you want to charge fees, go to 0.0 space for it.

It's just an option I would like being made available. Nothing mandatory. I'm sure some would love to create the next Jita.

Friends
Celly Smunt
Neutin Local LLC
#2640 - 2013-02-05 01:29:06 UTC
The CSM had a town hall meeting.
the link below is to a condensed version of the meeting and there is a link in it to the podcast..

nothing deffinate, but at least POSes got mention there:
http://spindensity.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/csm-townhall-meeting-03-02-2013/



o/
Celly

Don't mistake fact for arrogance, supposition for fact, or disagreement for dismissal. Perception is unique in that it can be shared or singular. Run with the pack if you wish, but think for yourself. A sandwich can be a great motivator.