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POSes: I am a small portion of the community

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Author
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#2141 - 2013-01-18 18:54:01 UTC
+1 for modual posses

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Wolf TheFallen
The Fallening Deafening Silence Syndicate
#2142 - 2013-01-18 18:54:02 UTC
Dear CCP,

Understanding that updating core code for a program that was written many years ago is a pain stacking, and headache process that is never wish on any one.

Unforgettably to prevent things from becoming overly stagnant these steps must be occur.
You have already proven this by redoing and making changes to the ships we fly today, and you are still in the process of adjusting the next tier of these.

Pilots who use poses, do so painfully, and required to do so in some areas of the game. I personally know of 2 corporations who have tried to run and manage POSes to find themselves giving up with that aspect and move on with the game due to how they run and operate.

Updating the POS system to a modular pos system that was presented to us over a year ago has been a feature many of the pilots have been looking for. For we can Customize these POS to fit the exact role we attend to use them for. Which at this time is rather difficult to accomplish, and honoeslty not enough customize or difference to do anything with the current POS system.

If we went to a Modular POS system that was brought up and hung out over heads like a carrot, it would drive more pilots to began using them in this sandbox game of win, and generate more content of the it self.

There are many aspects of this game that need to be addressed, with each step of the players and the developers we should reach compromises, and do a little of time aspect. I like this approach to keep the game balanced as we move through each expansion.

Create the Modular system to use the current mods we have in the game. Then through the next couple of patches release the newer mods you where considering for the POS system. So you can adjust code with time, to make sure everything is matching up.

Something much like the Tieriside you are doing the ships, think of it as a POSiscide time and do it in set stages.

POS systems are not truely a single Pilot driven item in the game it was designed to be a Corporation Asset, so when look at the number of POSes in the game consider and think about the number of players required to maintain 1-3 POSes. the "Small community" utlizing the POSes is not small, it is always a group focus effort to gather resources for fuel, and logistics to keep them fueled, and protected from enemies. WARS have started over a "POS" in space.. Ask CFC, PL, or any Major NULL sec Corporation/Alliance what happens if someone looks at their Tech Mining Moon POS system wrong..

Move into a Wormhole for a month, ask yourself if you enjoy the "Home" anchored at to your moon. Ask yourself do i have enough guns on that thing as you hit dscan and you see ships appear that are not yours.

Ask the industrial sitting in Nullsec as he anchors the best of assembly arrays to build that Mother ship or titan. And go i hope the spy did not get this location, and i hope my allies respond when the mob comes into the kill the titan while its still a "baby"..

Content is always being generated with these items, i hear about the dread that siege on the mid point pos every week.

Rebuild these POSes make them what they should be today, don't keep them as they where, technologies of EVE itself has changed, All items should grow with them and not get shelved and become overly "stagnant"

Wolf
Zugger
Public Enemies CO
The Initiative.
#2143 - 2013-01-18 18:58:50 UTC
I've been playing this game since 2007. The first thing that drew me to this game was POS's. I liked the concept of owning your own slice of universe.

Ive been in all types of space high, low, null, & WH for extended amounts of time and I always felt affected by POS's one way or another.

This is a game mechanic that needs to be updated. Its been sitting broken for far too long.
Gramek MCAllister
Disturbing Silence
Disturbing Silence.
#2144 - 2013-01-18 18:59:12 UTC
I am also one of the "few" POS user and i would appreciate it when CCP would improve it.

Guides, Tipps, Infos in meinem Blog auf Gramek's PODcast

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#2145 - 2013-01-18 19:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
I think in order to make it feasible for a modular pos system is starting with a core. Have it co exist with the current system.

Core will be simple, plain, boring and minimal functioned to all the things it could do in the future. Something to start with something for players to start messing around with and start working on in ensuring that market is stable and sparking overall interest and ideas. Installable now, acnhorable now and will not require that much 'coding' now.

Tie a new skills system into it, call it station management, even make them racial if you want. Have the core have its own CPU and GPU and skills to effect. While modular and 'customizable' you will limit how far they can strech that still.

A private floating fortress of solitude that anyone could find eventually.

Then as expansions roll out and things go along, get the code working and begin to add add more modules types. Even if the art engine cannot support it yet it can always be added on later, as we did it with the missile launchers I can expect the same can be done eventually for these cores.

Links, Computer, Reactors, Power Coupelings, Industry Slot +, Sinks, Shields, Weapons, Gantries, Special Functions

Once the code is functionally workable then you can continue to add more sizes in the future, medium, meant for corporation functions, large for allaince only sort of deals.

Make the new station as a whole perform better than the pos, let the old system get obsoleted over time. That way retirement of the old star bases would be easily done people would most likely already flipped over to the new system and flipped over by then.

In the mean times make as many 'cost effective' fixes to current systems as possible. Make thier lives easier and more manageable.

Overal Goal:

Make player owned stations no longer a minority, but something of desire majority and affordablility and scalable to thier play styles.

Plant a Seed, Nuture it and let it grow in this sand box, it may take many months but apple tree's do not grow overnight.

I will say this. The reason why POS owners may be a minority is the desire is easily defeated by the daunting task. I am one such person I had in possesion of a gallente tower for the longest time and I have honestly no idea where to start with it or even what to do with it. So in my hanger it sits with fuel ready and no purpose.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Grune Jaeger
JG Tactical Ops Unlimited
#2146 - 2013-01-18 19:06:22 UTC
Thank you for taking the time to receive this input.

Yes, please consider increasing the priority on allocating resources to a POS system enhancement.
Kiithnaras
Black Ice Protectorate
#2147 - 2013-01-18 19:07:20 UTC
The community as a whole seems to find and latch on to one little nugget said by one person and make supernovae out of white dwarves. Starbases are a relatively small part of the Eve experience, even though many players and groups utilize them (T2, Drugs, Wormholes, to name a few). It is entirely unreasonable to expect the whole of CCP's development staff to focus on a rework of the starbase system to push out modular starbases by this summer. Provided work is started on them by at least one team, I am satisfied with that, and that seems to be the case based on the CSM minutes and CCP's subsequent responses in this thread.

I for one am wholly thrilled with the idea of modular starbases, and look forward to seeing them introduced and replace the current logistical debacle that is the present iteration of starbases. In short, the community as a whole needs to approach a subject with calm and tempered rationale, critical thinking, rather than falling in step with groupthink. I have to admit, I was pretty pissed when one of my associates gave me the "brief summary." However, it took me all of five minutes of reading the initial thread as well as Dev responses to calm down and compose myself to discover the whole truth of the matter.

As long as modular starbases are being worked on (finally, after several YEARS after being proposed and supported immensely by the community at large via "flogging the dead horse"), I am satisfied with that response. For now. Time will tell what sort of direction CCP will take, and I will very likely re-evaluate my position based on the direction that is taken. However, I will not succumb to the drama, and I urge the rest of the community to abandon their drama llamas as well. Drama solves nothing and only creates friction and dissent between the developers and the community.
vikari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2148 - 2013-01-18 19:09:21 UTC
CCP how many POS's are in the game? A 1000...2000...3000? How many of us warp to a POS per day...5000....7000....8000? It's time to consider that just because all of us don't run a POS doesn't mean they don't effect us.

My my alliance SRP is fully funded by POSs...how many 0.0 alliances have POS's mining moons for SRP?

How many super caps are in the game? I bet 1/2 of them have their own POSs.

How many T2 ships are made per day? How people fly T2 ships?

Giving CCP had roughtly 400k subscribbers in March of 2012. I think it's safe to say that giving most of us own 2 accounts, that puts it at around 200k individuals playing eve. In about 24hrs time nearly 1% of the eve player based voiced a support for the rebuild of POSs, at the very least they supported and intermediate fix.


Do not lose sight that you have one of the most mature player bases of any MMO. Hundreds of us work in the IT field and we understand to some extent the difficulties you could be experiencing, the time you may need to take, as well as the need to run CCP effectively and to make money. We understand this, please don't patronize us.
Luke Eskar
Frank Gallagher Fan Club
#2149 - 2013-01-18 19:12:33 UTC
+1 for Modular POS's

.

Romvex
TURN LEFT
#2150 - 2013-01-18 19:14:14 UTC
supportedBig smile
Infinite Force
#2151 - 2013-01-18 19:17:20 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
I think in order to make it feasible for a modular pos system is starting with a core. Have it co exist with the current system.

Core will be simple, plain, boring and minimal functioned to all the things it could do in the future. Something to start with something for players to start messing around with and start working on in ensuring that market is stable and sparking overall interest and ideas. Installable now, acnhorable now and will not require that much 'coding' now.

Tie a new skills system into it, call it station management, even make them racial if you want. Have the core have its own CPU and GPU and skills to effect. While modular and 'customizable' you will limit how far they can strech that still.

A private floating fortress of solitude that anyone could find eventually.

Then as expansions roll out and things go along, get the code working and begin to add add more modules types. Even if the art engine cannot support it yet it can always be added on later, as we did it with the missile launchers I can expect the same can be done eventually for these cores.

Links, Computer, Reactors, Power Coupelings, Industry Slot +, Sinks, Shields, Weapons, Gantries, Special Functions

Once the code is functionally workable then you can continue to add more sizes in the future, medium, meant for corporation functions, large for allaince only sort of deals.

Make the new station as a whole perform better than the pos, let the old system get obsoleted over time. That way retirement of the old star bases would be easily done people would most likely already flipped over to the new system and flipped over by then.

In the mean times make as many 'cost effective' fixes to current systems as possible. Make thier lives easier and more manageable.

Overal Goal:

Make player owned stations no longer a minority, but something of desire majority and affordablility and scalable to thier play styles.

Plant a Seed, Nuture it and let it grow in this sand box, it may take many months but apple tree's do not grow overnight.

I like this idea -- give us one, two or three new POS modules every month in the new system. Start with the core and grow it up. Maybe even make it invulnerable (the intial core) until we have enough modules out to properly defend it (e.g. until guns, shield, ecm, etc. are ready).

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#2152 - 2013-01-18 19:19:29 UTC
doesnt have to be every month, just hopefully something every expansion as the code shapes up and is able to eventually handel the whole system. I would love to see the project done by 2014 winter expansion, I think its very fair reasonable and leaves room for every improvement possible and allow for more future growth.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

nDyx
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2153 - 2013-01-18 19:30:08 UTC  |  Edited by: nDyx
I support a POS revamp.
Infinite Force
#2154 - 2013-01-18 19:31:49 UTC
Given the history of late - of saying one thing, doing another, I would prefer to see monthly additions -- or even quarterly additions with standard weekly/monthly updates to the overall system.

Personally, I feel this would satisfy most of the people asking for an update --- regular updates that move us to an entirely new platform. I know I'd be elated to have a new piece of the puzzle every few weeks. It certainly would give everyone time to make the adjustment to the new system and find potential issues/exploits or whatevers with it so that the final release would be nearly fault-free.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!

ngaly
Doomheim
#2155 - 2013-01-18 19:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ngaly
I also think modular POS should be a focus for several expansions. I don’t just want you to improve a few flaws of the current POS system but I want you to create a whole new modular POS concept.

Most of the modules should have to be linked to each other and not just float in space. It has to be like LEGO. Every module should only have a minimal specific purpose and not multiple purposes. (For example: you would have to combine like 3 different modules to get one assembly line to produce Frigates. You would need other modules to provide input and output storage.)

POS should have the following abilities:

  • Cloak
  • Jump Drive
  • Captains Quarter
  • can be anchored anywhere in the system
  • can be owned not only by a corp but also by a player
  • Links for the different modules but also links to connect two POS
  • Cyno Generator (not depending on Sovereignty but with restrictions regarding the amount of ships that can jump to it per hour)
  • many separate forcefields (not covering the whole POS but only certain areas)
  • maybe a market
  • all the other abilities of the current POS

Above that you would have to redefine the difference between a POS and a station. I think you should remove abilities from Stations and give them to POS. The future purpose of NPC stations should be solely to provide an indestructible place to store and trade items. Especially manufacturing and research slots should be removed from NPC stations. T1 manufacturing should be possible everywhere. T2 and T3 production should not be possible in high-sec. All kinds of research should only be possible in null-sec and wh-space.

Generally speaking there should be two types of POS:

On the one hand it should be possible for large alliances to create a modular POS with huge offensive and defensive capabilities. It should be capable of withstanding the siege of a typical large null-sec blob for some time. Such a POS should be visible to everyone. It should be a threatening bastion. It should be possible to effectively use it as a forward operating base. It should be possible to link it to smaller POS providing some defense to them as well.

On the other hand it should be possible for small groups and solo players to create a modular POS whose only defense is the capability to hide.

I’m a member of an alliance but I’m mostly a solo player who likes manufacturing/research/trading. This is how I would like to use a modular POS: I would build a POS for invention. The POS would use a cloak for defense. It would also have a jump drive and a reinforce mode module.

The cloak module would cloak not only the POS but also every ship which is close to the POS. To find a cloaked POS a hostile player would have to probe a ship which is warping to the POS shortly before the ship lands (and gets cloaked) or shortly after a ship left the POS. Alternatively the hostile could simply get a POS-bookmark from a spy. Above that null-sec alliances should simply be able to access a list with every POS within their space including a bookmark for each POS. In NPC null-sec it should be possible to buy a bookmark from the NPC. In NPC null-sec the POS owner would have the option to pay “protection money” to the NPC monthly. The amount would be totally up to the POS owner. However, to buy a POS-bookmark from the NPC a hostile player would have to pay like 10 times of a monthly payment. Also maybe the hostile player would have to know the name of the POS owner to buy the bookmark.

I would choose NPC null sec for my POS because if **** hits the fan I could still use the jump drive to escape (in contrast to wh-space) and I wouldn’t have to bother with politics or possible spies (in contrast to Player null-sec). If someone manages to find my POS and decides to harass me by reinforcing the POS I would have two options: I could defend the POS or if the hostile group is too large I could initiate an emergency jump (a normal jump wouldn’t be possible during reinforced mode). An emergency jump would cause a certain percentage of industry jobs to fail (maybe 4% of all manufacturing jobs and 30% of all research jobs). Also all items which are stored in the POS would get damaged to a certain degree or maybe some would get destroyed. Or maybe a certain percentage of items should simply drop as a reward for the attackers.

All in all it would be playing hide-and-seek with players who want to harass me. It’s important that it’s possible to harass me but it's also important that I can evade harassment to a certain degree.

This was just an example for a solo / small group industry usecase. I'm sure you can come up with interesting ways to use a POS for other types of players as well.
fenistil
Astral Acquisitions Inc.
#2156 - 2013-01-18 19:37:10 UTC
I'd like to point out that 100 or so likes this thread got and which got locked by CCP:

POS Reworked:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1741762

.

Luc Chastot
#2157 - 2013-01-18 19:42:04 UTC
POSes affecting or not a small portion of the playerbase is up to CCP; do they want to keep them limited to the roles they have now, as corporation assets? Or do they want to enable small players or even individuals to own them?

I'd love to have my little sation in the middle of nowhere, with a few stealth modules so I know it's my (relatively) safe haven.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Rob Cobb
Probe Patrol
#2158 - 2013-01-18 19:46:18 UTC
possible temporary fix since modular pos's are apprently going to take so long:

-Allow directors to choose the number of divisions for both corp hanger arrays and ship maint arrays.
-Allow directors to rename the divs, and mange access for each one, right click, manage, tickbox which corp/alliance members are allowed access.

that cant be too hard to implement, and gives people private ship and item storage...

afterwards ccp should work on modular pos's, since ive lost faith in it being done in a timely fashion...
psychorapist
Thunderous Hemoroid Enterprises
#2159 - 2013-01-18 19:50:41 UTC
Please CCP, make those modular POS a reality. Either that or fix the current ones.

If you do, I promise to be naughty.

Very.
Cowboy Nuggets
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2160 - 2013-01-18 20:01:02 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
+1 for modual posses

+1 for +1