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Titans-Supers-Carriers-Dreads? Changes we should look at this time around...
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#61 - 2013-01-13 03:22:13 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
BEPOHNKA wrote:
Here are some changes we could look at to see something new?


Carriers?Perfect as can be in space! not much to say about change?

2) Face it no one likes to be stock in one spot, look at removing the 5 mins stock. (no cloaking or jumping)


Bro, do you even chef?

You can't make a stock in 5 minutes. Cooking a basic vegetable stock takes half an hour, Chicken about an hour, and a good beef stock can take up to 12 hours, depending on the thickness of bones, and amount of the flavour you are looking to draw out.


Also, this thread is so many types of terrible. Almost every single idea submitted: NO.

Beef stock mmm

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#62 - 2013-01-13 05:08:23 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Beef stock mmm



Keep reducing it, clarify it, and you get aspic.

I will eat just about anything that's embedded in an aspic.


Mmmm, meat Jello.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
iskflakes
#63 - 2013-01-13 05:21:51 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
As somebody who's fairly well versed in all things capital (except the effects of tengu boosters on triage carriers) I think your ideas are extremely short sighted and bad.

Basically you don't "get" caps at all.

Grath Telkin wrote:
I'm amazed at how much of that you actually made up.

Grath Telkin wrote:
Anyway if the little fella above me (iskflakes)wants to get in a "Who's Right About What" war i can actually factually destroy him with real live information from pretty much the largest capital/supercapital/titan single alliance force in game.
Such an aggressive response. If you think I'm factually mistaken, please point out where. Most of my post is opinion. It is my opinion that the supercap nerfs were a bad thing, and that the concentration of supercaps in a single group is a bad thing. If you believe that the supercap nerfs were well planned, properly presented to the community for feedback and effective, then that is your opinion.

Grath Telkin wrote:
My best advice would be to simply delete that post since its so full of crap you made up that its ridiculous.
Why..? Are you worried CCP might read it and get some ideas?


-
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-01-13 05:58:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
iskflakes wrote:
Such an aggressive response. If you think I'm factually mistaken, please point out where. Most of my post is opinion. It is my opinion that the supercap nerfs were a bad thing, and that the concentration of supercaps in a single group is a bad thing. If you believe that the supercap nerfs were well planned, properly presented to the community for feedback and effective, then that is your opinion.


Considering that both nerfs were announced publicly before implementation, just like virtually every change of consequence made to the game, they were properly presented for feedback. For example, they didn't end up implementing that ridiculous reduction in scan res on titans. The nerfs served to scale back the Dominion changes, which were a net buff to both supers and titans.

iskflakes wrote:
Why..? Are you worried CCP might read it and get some ideas?


You think they'd listen to overly emotional arguments for what basically constitutes an "I win" button?

edit: an i-win button that you can use without any interference, at that

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2013-01-13 07:01:17 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
It is my opinion that the supercap nerfs were a bad thing, and that the concentration of supercaps in a single group is a bad thing. If you believe that the supercap nerfs were well planned, properly presented to the community for feedback and effective, then that is your opinion.


You know this isn't how that works right?

Like what you're presenting is an opinion. You have no idea if its true at all or not, its based on ill formed theories about things that aren't actually a problem as easily sighted by anybody who happens to know anything about caps. What you want is the chance to be the biggest fish in your particular pond and fortunately thats not really anywhere close to a theme in EVE. Theres always a bigger fish.

What I'm telling you is based on fact. Were they properly presented to the community for feedback? Yes, for month and more before the changes were put in there was testing and Dev feedback. Thats pretty good.

Were they effective? Yes, you now need a support fleet and capital support to properly engage with supers, titans can't completely shatter any sized fleet in game and generally if you leave it hanging out its really easy to get your super capital ego chopped off.

Were they well planned? Yea considering all the other evidence and their stated desired plan of making supers less own then I'd say that they were in fact a well planned set of changes that achieve all of their desired goals.

Those aren't opinions about things that may or may not happen, thats all based on the facts of things that did in fact happen.

You know...

reality.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2013-01-13 07:04:00 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
Why..? Are you worried CCP might read it and get some ideas?


IDK do you think they'll be more apt to listen to the guy flailing his arms around screaming that Titans and Supers got nerfed too hard or do you think they'll listen to the guy in the alliance with the massive supercap fleet that says they're probably fine right where they are, and that capital combat is as balanced as its been in a long time??

I'm willing to bet neither, but then again sometimes running around screaming with your arms in the air has the desired effect so feel free to continue

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#67 - 2013-01-13 07:40:42 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
Why..? Are you worried CCP might read it and get some ideas?


IDK do you think they'll be more apt to listen to the guy flailing his arms around screaming that Titans and Supers got nerfed too hard or do you think they'll listen to the guy in the alliance with the massive supercap fleet that says they're probably fine right where they are, and that capital combat is as balanced as its been in a long time??

I'm willing to bet neither, but then again sometimes running around screaming with your arms in the air has the desired effect so feel free to continue

I think I love you. Please never stop.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
BEPOHNKA
Ner Vod Fleet Systems
Goonswarm Federation
#68 - 2013-01-13 10:16:48 UTC  |  Edited by: BEPOHNKA
Thanks for all your help so far with feedback. change some stuff around. Cool

added "WHY NOT" part......
down size from 3 to just 2 for now ideas.. for now.

darn shame we can't make supers-titians more useful on their own vs group use.
BEPOHNKA
Ner Vod Fleet Systems
Goonswarm Federation
#69 - 2013-01-15 16:52:43 UTC
At this point in the game not sure how many of you feel about some new ideas to be build on the supers-titans...

Some feedback to removed the ewar type idea of area of effect. but it seem to work, great on supers the EWAR why not titans?Ugh
Hedion's oracle
Naari LLC
#70 - 2013-01-15 18:53:00 UTC
Now posting in steath " Nullsec suppose to conflict free thread" just gets better and better. P

Error: Working As intended
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#71 - 2013-01-15 21:56:03 UTC
BEPOHNKA wrote:
At this point in the game not sure how many of you feel about some new ideas to be build on the supers-titans...

Some feedback to removed the ewar type idea of area of effect. but it seem to work, great on supers the EWAR why not titans?Ugh


Because Titans have Doomsdays.

Supers and Titans are different ships with differing abilities, strengths, and weaknesses.


Titans and Supers are reasonably OK as they are now. They probably should never have been introduced in the first place, but that ship's long since sailed.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2013-01-15 22:01:38 UTC
I don't think titans and supers are ok.

They need to actually have reason to be deployed in a combat situation against other ships where they have a reasonable (even if still small) probability of being destroyed.

As it is now there's no reason to put a super or titan in any risk anywhere. The only supercaps that are destroyed are due to pilot error.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#73 - 2013-01-15 22:21:35 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I don't think titans and supers are ok.

They need to actually have reason to be deployed in a combat situation against other ships where they have a reasonable (even if still small) probability of being destroyed.

As it is now there's no reason to put a super or titan in any risk anywhere. The only supercaps that are destroyed are due to pilot error.



Fair enough. I should have said that I think they're around the right power level.

You're right that their role should be improved.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
iskflakes
#74 - 2013-01-15 22:42:54 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I don't think titans and supers are ok.

They need to actually have reason to be deployed in a combat situation against other ships where they have a reasonable (even if still small) probability of being destroyed.

As it is now there's no reason to put a super or titan in any risk anywhere. The only supercaps that are destroyed are due to pilot error.


I agree with this. Supers/titans are seriously lacking a fleet role right now though (killing structures is not a suitable role).

One of the reason they are never deployed is because it's incredibly risky to do so with no reward. A proper risk/reward balance would require that the larger the risk you take the bigger the potential gain. Right now supers are all risk and no gain (just use a dread). I want to see supers get used, because that means supers are going to die.

-
Irya Boone
The Scope
#75 - 2013-01-16 01:09:07 UTC
Only change to make here is about the moros

Moros = gallente ship = drones so make the Moros unleash 10 or more Sentry with a lot of bonus
optimal range /or tracking etc etc

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#76 - 2013-01-16 02:02:29 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
Only change to make here is about the moros

Moros = gallente ship = drones so make the Moros unleash 10 or more Sentry with a lot of bonus
optimal range /or tracking etc etc

Odd, it used to be better at drones, and was extremely overpowered so they removed the drones.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
#77 - 2013-01-18 09:33:01 UTC
How about this, I will actualy post a suggestion. Currently we have slowcats? or w/e they are called Sentry carriers remte repping eachother whilst shitting out damage im assuming. How about the possibility of giving supercarriers/titans back some drone capabilities without making them completely unbalanced as they were before. An example would being giving supers a way to combat those smaller ships such as interdictors in the form of only being able to deploy 7 Warrior 2's for supers or 5 for titans.

I realise this may not recive the best replies. But its a suggestion and open to points that constructivly critisise the idea, or expand on it. xD

/Princess

 ♥ 
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-01-18 09:49:45 UTC
Princess Saskia wrote:
How about this, I will actualy post a suggestion. Currently we have slowcats? or w/e they are called Sentry carriers remte repping eachother whilst shitting out damage im assuming. How about the possibility of giving supercarriers/titans back some drone capabilities without making them completely unbalanced as they were before. An example would being giving supers a way to combat those smaller ships such as interdictors in the form of only being able to deploy 7 Warrior 2's for supers or 5 for titans.


I bolded the part that makes this a horrible idea.

For one, supercarriers are not and should not be solopwnmobiles. They have plenty of ways to defend themselves - use neuts, smartbombs and tackle.

I've personally killed dictors with fighters by using neuts, target painters and tackle. As it is, supercarriers are high-EHP ewar bricks.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
#79 - 2013-01-18 09:54:04 UTC
I agree they shouldn't be solo pwnmobiles. But having them able to be deployed in smaller groups would make alittle more sence as then people may possibly be more willing to use them?

 ♥ 
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2013-01-18 10:26:26 UTC
Princess Saskia wrote:
I agree they shouldn't be solo pwnmobiles. But having them able to be deployed in smaller groups would make alittle more sence as then people may possibly be more willing to use them?


Nah. I don't think so. Let's just remove supers from the game. Or listen to Grath and the Goon super-guys because they actually know what they're talking about.

I mean, feel free to try and take a couple of Avatars out for a stroll or something, I look forward to the killmail.