EVE General Discussion

2013 has already brought us 19 dead scs and 1 dead titan

looks good so far :D

I have lots of funny images in my head when combining old school AOE dd's with the death of a titan...

I find it na interesting idea.... although I'm not sure it's a good one...

As for the rest of the ideas... no thank you!!!

So a post appears that tries to take a reasonable look at SC/Titans and immediately the goon alts come out in force to say they don't think anybody should be able to challenge their blob. No surprise there.

Supercarriers and titans are THE MOST broken ships in EVE right now. They both do worse damage than dreads, but at 20-100x the price. They have no way to defend themselves, cost hundreds of billions to build and nobody can use them except the one blob that has the most. As a result they are the least fun ships in the game to fly, and the most dangerous to fly solo.

The recent nerfs have proven disastrous to the role that supers filled and to people's willingness to use them for ANY task other than killing structures. Many of the super pilots I know have let their accounts go inactive, and supercapital heavy communities have been forced to merge into a single massive blob just to stay alive. This concentration of power in the hands of veteran corporations and alliances (in a single coalition too) is bad for new players, who can't compete, and bad for anybody else in nullsec who can't match their blob numbers.

The OP suggests some sensible changes, but I don't think any of them will solve the problem. The real issue is that 450 supers/titans is unkillable -- it doesn't matter how much you nerf them. Fundamentally, we have to nerf the ability of supers/titans to be used in blobs. The way to do this is with a cyno mass limit. One cyno = 3 supers. With only a few supers being able to get on grid we will break up the veteran supercap alliances into smaller groups. At the same time smaller nullsec alliances will be able to field supers/titans without the risk that 150 titans will travel from the other side of EVE to land on them within 5 minutes, then proceed to instapop their entire fleet. Solo super/titan pilots will feel safer for the same reason. Supers and titans can then be given a modest ability to defend themselves (e.g. supercarrier drones) without it becoming game breaking.

With this proposed change it would still be possible to move a large supercap fleet, but at each jump 1/3 of your fleet will need to light cynos for the rest of them -- meaning you can project force defensively but not to the other side of EVE without it taking at least 30 minutes.

Freed from the spectre of limitless supercap blobs, New Eden's enterprising fleet commanders will invent new carrier and dreadnought tactics, as it will become possible to deploy them in large numbers without it automatically becoming a suicide mission. This is a good thing for everybody.

I love how you mention "goon alts" when we have the second largest single alliance supercapital fleet in the game.

Now, can you show me the dread that doesn't have to siege and/or has a weapon with 3m alpha? With tens of millions of EHP?



The "supercapital heavy communities" existed in massive blobs long before Crucible. Fielding them without superiority was suicidal then and remains suicidal now.



Alright, so we'd just have 50 pilots fit cynos. What then? Nothing changes.

Plenty of supercarrier pilots get by fine flying solo. I'm sorry if you're terrible at not getting caught, but let's face it, they're not supposed to be solopwnmobiles.

Sorry, was waiting to bridge in and join the blob.

C-Candy mountain...

No, I can't, but costing 100b doesn't mean it should be 50 times as powerful. There's this concept of "diminishing returns," you see, and even then, dreads cannot bridge fleets, provide massive bonuses to fleets, fit ganglinks, deal thousands of DPS without entering siege, use doomsdays, or have tens of millions of EHP. I'm sorry that those capabilities are not sufficient for you. Perhaps you should save 90b+ and buy a shiny Machariel instead?



The nerfs were intended to solve problems created by supercapital proliferation. Short of resetting all supercap BPOs to 3-run BPCs and requiring players to source 1-run BPCs from lowsec PvE with a minuscule chance of it dropping, supercapital proliferation will not be curtailed any time soon.



Nobody moves a supercap fleet 9 jumps to gank some scrubs in carriers. It's theoretically possible with pre-positioned cyno alts but you're talking about a jump freighter worth of isotopes for every ~20 supers, which is just not feasible unless you're planning an actual deployment. One problem I do see, however, is (for example) TEST tackling a bunch of supers in the south and the CFC, who would have no stake in that engagement, taking advantage of what is inevitably going to be heavy TiDi in that fight to move supercarriers all the way from the north to help kill them.



Ever heard of "fishing?"

Lot of feedback, on the ideas and hope we keep this going and to add more on to list.

I know some of you don't like some of the ideas, but it's long start to get this were we like the changes to be at for years to come!
Talking about what ideas could make any capital bit more fun is the goal!

Then none will esplode :D

How about 2x as powerful?



They were not intended to solve proliferation they were intended to make supercap blobs less powerful (so Goons wouldn't lose to Raiden). If they were intended to stop proliferation then they failed there too. They were badly planned and rushed nerfs all around. Supercap blobs are just as unkillable as they were before the nerfs, just now they can't kill anything except structures either (or defend themselves).



They do. Supercap fleets have been moved to kill single supers. The blob fleet pilots don't care about the isotope cost because they're so excited at a chance to actually use their expensive ships. Nerfing force projection (without nerfing individual supers themselves) is the best way to fix the imbalance of power that currently exists, and will encourage more supercap usage (and hence deaths).



So PVP in EVE has come down to hunting for idiots? What a great game.