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[Retribution 1.1] Combat Battlecruisers

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Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1301 - 2013-01-17 10:23:02 UTC
I'm Down wrote:
What kind of crack are you smoking with the range? You want an optimal bonus on a blaster that has **** all optimal to begin with? Apply damage much easier on the slowest BC with the shortest range weapon of all 12 choices even with the optimal really means that much to you?

Based on the comments about the optimal range being "great" for it, people seem to think that it's enough of a "role" for the ship to have this weird little niche where it can pull some marginal range edge on other blaster boats while using Null. That's more of an excuse than a role though, to justify keeping a bonus that doesn't make sense for any role the boat is actually going to fill. The point of a "role" is for the ship to have one thing it is very good at, and for the "bonus" to take a strong point and make it stronger, not to just barely enable a marginal tactic that might work in some way, some of the time, in some situations, if flown exactly right, against the ideal opponent.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
Greenlike ish
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1302 - 2013-01-17 10:50:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Greenlike ish
Hello.

In short, the current myrmidon has several issues:
(1) It is going to have to compete with the new prophecy. With its 7 lowslots it can fit any kind of armor tank the myrmidon can with its 6 lowslots, but better because of the nature of the 5% resist bonus compared to the 7.5% armor repair bonus (in case of active tanks, in the case of armor buffer tanks it would be miles ahead of the myrmidon). Add to that the fact that with the 7th lowslot the prophecy can always fit 1 more Drone Damage Amplifier, where the myrmidon will be out of slots. However the prophecy is not the problem, trying to active tank the myrmidon is. Active tanking takes more slots to be effective compared to a buffer tank. Slots the myrmidon dedicates at the expense of drone damage output. This is because the slot layout still follows the old way drone boats were set up. The drone boats advantage compared to ships with turrets has always been that it could do max drone dps without needing to fit damage amplifiers in your lowslots, which meant you had a better tank compared to the turret armor fitted ships. DDA changed that, so the myrm needs to evolve a little.

(2) The drone bay is to small to carry at least two flights of the dps drone configurations you want to bring. It should be able to field 2x the 100 mbit flight, and have a little extra for about 5 to 7 light drones, so a drone bay of at least 225 is recommended.

My ideas for the new myrmidon then. I'll explain point by point and add my reasoning behind this. Please bear with me for wall of text.

- Keep the 6 high slots: 5 turret points and 1 utility.
The myrmidon model has 6 obviously placed high slots. If you only allow it 5 high slots in the fiting window, it might cause confusion and it will put the model to shame. By keeping 6 fittable high's atleast the slot layout follows the look of the ship.

- Change the 7.5% armor repair bonus to a 5% medium blaster bonus
This will make the ship fit into the shipline Vexor (4 bonussed blasters + 75 mbit bonussed drones) => Myrmidon (5 bonussed blasters + 100 mbit bonussed drones) => Dominix (6 bonussed blasters + 125 mbit drones). I know this will add considerable punch to the dps of the ship, so there will be other changes to it to mitigate this considerable increase to its DPS, please read on.

- Remove the 5th middle slot.
This has two reasons, as I'm about to explain. Firstly the myrmidon needs to lose a slot somewhere to compensate for keeping 6 highslots. Second, and this is very important: it will give more incentive to armor tanking and mitigate it's ability for high dps due to the bonussed guns and drones. Why is this necessary you might ask?

I think if the myrm would keep the 5th middle slot while gaining the gun bonus and losing the active armor rep bonus, it would almost exclusivly be flown as a shieldtanked ship with damage modules in the lows. 5 midslots would be an open invitation to apply the typical high DPS brutix fits (shield extenders + damage mods + biggest guns you can strap on) but with higher overall EHP. It would be flown either with extenders and invunerability fields for buffer EHP or 2x XLASB and an invulnerability field for enormous burst active tank. With it's bonussed guns and drones, and 6 lows full of damage modules, would allow it to put out over a 1000 dps while having to much EHP / active tank, resulting in a massivly overpowered ship.

To resolve this, the 5th midslot needs to go. As a result, you'll see more diverse fittings. Players will be left with the similar options like the new and improved vexor: Either shieldtank it with an extender and a invulnerability field to get very high DPS with enough EHP to last a bit, or armortank it for a lot more EHP and full tackle, compensated by a loss of some DPS, but still have enough left do dish out some pain. A myrmidon with 4 midslots would have the same choices: either shieldtank it (like the current brutix fitted for max dps) with some extenders, put on the biggest guns and all the damage modules and dish out HIGH DPS, offset by a MODEST EHP with more versatility than the current gankbrutix due to the drone ranges. It could also be armor(buffer) tanked for good DPS with MORE EHP and full tackle.

I really think this will result in a more balanced myrmidon, with good fitting diversity that can catch players offguard.

Please let me know what you think of my suggestion.

Kind Regards,
Greenlike Ish
Mund Richard
#1303 - 2013-01-17 14:08:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Greenlike ish wrote:
In short, the current myrmidon has several issues:
[...]
Please let me know what you think of my suggestion.

You outlined the reasoning quite well.
It takes the shield and tripple rep myrm away, and gives us a ship a bit less reliant on it's tiny drone bay for damage, more in line with the rest of the gallente ships, such as not rewarding fitting ACs.

As I've been complaining about how two active rep bonused Gallente ships are not needed, also how it doesn't quite fill the hole between the Vexor and the Domi, that's one way to do it.

It will still be only effective on a scram+webbed target, so no change there, the extra 5th is also nice for a web, but ah well.

OFC if it's the Brutix loosing the active rep bonus (and getting a utility high by loosing a turret but gaining strength to the blasters?), that's also interesting.

Not sure which I'd pick for the tank loss.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1304 - 2013-01-17 14:27:45 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
I'm not sure if this was mentioned, but I looked through the Dev comments and didn't see a response to it, but...


CCP had recently stated that they were going to try to get away from damage specific bonuses on missile boats because it partially negated one of the very benefits of missiles.

They explained that away on the destroyers(though I think it would have been better to make the minmatar a brawler and the caldari range), but my point is.

Why does the Drake still have a kinetic specific damage bonus?


Look again.

Hint: it's in the longest CCP post in this thread, which just so happens to be linked in the first post as well.



My bad, can't believe I missed that, but I guess I read the question and assumed it was about range.

Yeah, between ADHD, Dyslexia, and astigmatism it gets a little difficult to read from time to time.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1305 - 2013-01-17 14:36:56 UTC
Greenlike ish wrote:

How to turn the Myrmidon into slowly flotating lossmail with less tank than other BCs and no ability to catch anything


1) your first issue is tank compared to Prophecy, but your suggestion does not address this in any way

2) why Prophecy shouldn't have 100mbit/s then, as it has a big drone bay?

Myrmidon can do over 1000 dps now, and while you acknowledge that adding 25% more to turrets "might be kinda much", chopping off a midslot does not actually reduce the dps in any way, just turns it into a useless glass cannon, like the current Brutix,but slower. Or a Prophecy, with much less tank.

Your suggestion would just ruin a working active tanker.

.
Greenlike ish
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1306 - 2013-01-17 14:49:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Greenlike ish
Roime wrote:
Greenlike ish wrote:

How to turn the Myrmidon into slowly flotating lossmail with less tank than other BCs and no ability to catch anything


1) your first issue is tank compared to Prophecy, but your suggestion does not address this in any way

2) why Prophecy shouldn't have 100mbit/s then, as it has a big drone bay?

Myrmidon can do over 1000 dps now, and while you acknowledge that adding 25% more to turrets "might be kinda much", chopping off a midslot does not actually reduce the dps in any way, just turns it into a useless glass cannon, like the current Brutix,but slower. Or a Prophecy, with much less tank.

Your suggestion would just ruin a working active tanker.



An active tanker soon to be overshadowed by the prophecy if it remains as it is. With the prophecy's resist bonus it can do dual or triple rep myrmidon fits just as well, and even better. Unless you think the solution is giving the myrmidon 10% armor repair amount bonus, which could potentionally swing the tripe rep armour myrm into close to OP territory.

(1) I don't see how my proposed myrmidon would have any less tank than a buffertanked hurricane or harbinger? It won't match up to a prophecy tankwise, but it will outperform it significantly dps wise (which should make it appealing in a different way and thus used).

(2) Amarr drone ships typically have a very large drone bay, but limitid bandwith ( vexor 75, arbirator 50) Giving the prophecy the same bandwith as the myrmidon would make the current myrmidon even more redundant.

(3) current myrmidon can indeed pull over a 1000 dps now, shieldfitted. Chopping off the midslot does not reduce that dps if you shieldfit it (which is the only strenght next to extra speed that a shieldfitted myrm has), but it limits the amount of EHP you can get out of your shieldfit, and limits your tackle abilities. So you can indeed pump out big dps, but will find it harder to do so/live long enough. Just like the current gankbrutix, but with a bit more oomph and a bit more versatility. That's the way current shieldfitted myrmidons are used today anyways.

By removing that 5th slot you also create some more incentive to consider armor tanking it. You'll pull more EHP out of the ship, but with the damage bonus to guns and drones still put out good enough dps and you can use full tackle.

(4) atleast the gunbonus will limit the people using autocannons on the gallente ship. I think that's nice.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#1307 - 2013-01-17 14:53:01 UTC
William R Blake wrote:
i will ask 1 thing and 1 thing only from you..please change the Ferox 2nd bonus to ANY OTHER USABLE bonus Sad
i dont care how much % you put for the bonus but please! for the love of god drop the optimal range bonus!


Actually the Ferox is one of the ships looking very interesting with a 16% damage increase and extra lowslot for tracking enhancer/damage control/whatever.

Problem is Drake sharing the resist bonus with an extra medslot and ridiculous low dps with the same old boring kinetic bonus. Drake had to be nerfed and the HP change will do this, but the HP and range versatility was the only thing making Drake attractive and we finally have a change to get an exciting attack ship with dps to compete with the other ships for aggressive flying... But lets see.

That info really makes me doubt how dedicated CCP are to make all 8 interesting and exciting. Still crossing fingers though with all the good suggestions.

PS. Ferox does still need hybrid rebalance finished. CCP dropped it like a warm poo instead of making the last tweaks they promised. Railguns really need a higher alpha - the gap to arty is just too huge even if the arty doesn't have the same dps... And then ofcourse the ammunition is a mess...
Greenlike ish
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1308 - 2013-01-17 14:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Greenlike ish
Greenlike ish wrote:
Roime wrote:
Greenlike ish wrote:

How to turn the Myrmidon into slowly flotating lossmail with less tank than other BCs and no ability to catch anything


1) your first issue is tank compared to Prophecy, but your suggestion does not address this in any way

2) why Prophecy shouldn't have 100mbit/s then, as it has a big drone bay?

Myrmidon can do over 1000 dps now, and while you acknowledge that adding 25% more to turrets "might be kinda much", chopping off a midslot does not actually reduce the dps in any way, just turns it into a useless glass cannon, like the current Brutix,but slower. Or a Prophecy, with much less tank.

Your suggestion would just ruin a working active tanker.



An active tanker soon to be overshadowed by the prophecy if it remains as it is. With the prophecy's resist bonus it can do dual or triple rep myrmidon fits just as well, and even better. Unless you think the solution is giving the myrmidon 10% armor repair amount bonus, which could potentionally swing the tripe rep armour myrm into close to OP territory.

(1) I don't see how my proposed myrmidon would have any less tank than a buffertanked hurricane or harbinger? It won't match up to a prophecy tankwise, but it will outperform it significantly dps wise (which should make it appealing in a different way and thus used). In this way it does adress my concern with the prophecy's better tank ability compared to the myrmidon, by making the myrmidon excel at something else: DPS. This reasoning follows the lore nicely too: Amarr = tanky tanky and Gallente = spanky spanky.

(2) Amarr drone ships typically have a very large drone bay, but limitid bandwith ( vexor 75, arbirator 50) Giving the prophecy the same bandwith as the myrmidon would make the current myrmidon even more redundant.

(3) current myrmidon can indeed pull over a 1000 dps now, shieldfitted. Chopping off the midslot does not reduce that dps if you shieldfit it (which is the only strenght next to extra speed that a shieldfitted myrm has), but it limits the amount of EHP you can get out of your shieldfit, and limits your tackle abilities. So you can indeed pump out big dps, but will find it harder to do so/live long enough. Just like the current gankbrutix, but with a bit more oomph and a bit more versatility. That's the way current shieldfitted myrmidons are used today anyways.

By removing that 5th slot you also create some more incentive to consider armor tanking it. You'll pull more EHP out of the ship, but with the damage bonus to guns and drones still put out good enough dps and you can use full tackle.

(4) atleast the gunbonus will limit the people using autocannons on the gallente ship. I think that's nice.


Woops. Did something wrong. Seem to have quoted myself, my bad.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1309 - 2013-01-17 15:09:32 UTC
Greenlike ish wrote:
An active tanker soon to be overshadowed by the prophecy if it remains as it is. With the prophecy's resist bonus it can do dual or triple rep myrmidon fits just as well, and even better. Unless you think the solution is giving the myrmidon 10% armor repair amount bonus, which could potentionally swing the tripe rep armour myrm into close to OP territory.


Why is being overshadowed by Proph as an active tanker an issue, but not as buffer tanker? Myrm would still have more dps and utility mids. Yes, I think 10% rep bonus would be a solution that promotes it's use as an active tanker, which is considered fun by many pilots, it brings variation to buffer/gank pvp and increasing active tanking is one stated goal of CCP.

Quote:
(1) I don't see how my proposed myrmidon would have any less tank than a buffertanked hurricane or harbinger? It won't match up to a prophecy tankwise, but it will outperform it significantly dps wise (which should make it appealing in a different way and thus used).


Harbinger has 500 more base armor, Cane has 750 more shield.

Quote:
(2) Amarr drone ships typically have a very large drone bay, but limitid bandwith ( vexor 75, arbirator 50) Giving the prophecy the same bandwith as the myrmidon would make the current myrmidon even more redundant.


I don't get your point, Gallente ships typically have high bandwidth and smaller drone bays? Giving Myrm the same way would just make Prophecy much worse drone boat, no?

Quote:
(3) current myrmidon can indeed pull over a 1000 dps now, shieldfitted. Chopping off the midslot does not reduce that dps if you shieldfit it (which is the only strenght next to extra speed that a shieldfitted myrm has), but it limits the amount of EHP you can get out of your shieldfit, and limits your tackle abilities. So you can indeed pump out big dps, but will find it harder to do so/live long enough. Just like the current gankbrutix, but with a bit more oomph and a bit more versatility. That's the way current shieldfitted myrmidons are used today anyways.

By removing that 5th slot you also create some more incentive to consider armor tanking it. You'll pull more EHP out of the ship, but with the damage bonus to guns and drones still put out good enough dps and you can use full tackle.


I'd argue that the current shield Myrms are used because it can fit dual XLASBs or a decent buffer, and reducing that tanking potential while making it gankier would not increase it's appeal. Armour tanked you'd just end up with vastly lower buffer than the Prophecy.

Quote:
(4) atleast the gunbonus will limit the people using autocannons on the gallente ship. I think that's nice.


I think having the option to fit any guns is nice.

What about the Brutix then compared to your Myrm?

.
Greenlike ish
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1310 - 2013-01-17 15:36:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Greenlike ish
Quote:
Why is being overshadowed by Proph as an active tanker an issue, but not as buffer tanker? Myrm would still have more dps and utility mids. Yes, I think 10% rep bonus would be a solution that promotes it's use as an active tanker, which is considered fun by many pilots, it brings variation to buffer/gank pvp and increasing active tanking is one stated goal of CCP.
I can see the tempting side of a 10% armor repair bonus, however I feel like it suits the Brutix more (will explain lower down)
Quote:
Harbinger has 500 more base armor, Cane has 750 more shield.
Point noted, the myrmidons armor should be brought in line with those then. It's tank ought to be comparable to what a harbinger/cane can pull off.
Quote:
I don't get your point, Gallente ships typically have high bandwidth and smaller drone bays? Giving Myrm the same way would just make Prophecy much worse drone boat, no?
My proposed change would still give the myrmidon the bigger drone bandwith, but atleast it would also have enough drone bay to suit 2 full flight's of 100 mbit and have a flight of lights. Barely having room for 1 flight of 100 mbit and some spares is very troublesome for a drone boat.
Quote:
I'd argue that the current shield Myrms are used because it can fit dual XLASBs or a decent buffer, and reducing that tanking potential while making it gankier would not increase it's appeal. Armour tanked you'd just end up with vastly lower buffer than the Prophecy.
Sure fitting a dual XLASB tank on a myrmidon works, but that has more to do with the ancillery shield boosters than the ship itself. I just think that by dropping the 5th mid in favor of a 6/4/6 slot layout would still give incentive to armor tank the myrmidon when it loses the active rep bonus in favor of a gun bonus. You'll have the option of big gank with a bit of tank or tank with a bit of gank and tackle.

If you take my proposed idea of the gun bonus and keeping the 6 high slots so the slot layout matches the turret points visible in the ship model, which slot would you drop then (cause it needs to lose 1 to keep the 6)? If you drop the lowslots to 5 you'll never see an armor tanked myrmidon again ...
Quote:
(4) atleast the gunbonus will limit the people using autocannons on the gallente ship. I think that's nice.

It hasn't become impossible to fit autocannons to it, if you're that much into autocannons ...

What about the Brutix then compared to your Myrm?

I would suggest letting the brutix keep it's active armor repair bonus, but increase it to 10%. Gun bonus of 10% to medium hybrid damage. As for the slot layout: 6 turrets and a utility high, 4 mids, 6 lows. The idea behind this beeing that a brutix needs speed and tank more than anything to work. Armor tanking with an active tank allows it to do exactly that. Tackle, have speed, put out dps, tank, all in an attractive little package.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#1311 - 2013-01-17 18:27:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Colt Blackhawk
1st: Forget all that gallente whining about the myrmidon and brutix.
We had already several releases and what did we get?

*new destroyers: Only the algos is good. The rest is.... crap. Especially corax.

*I think most peeps agree that the vexor is probably the best and most versatile combat cruiser.

*new frigates: again only usable frig is the tristan and the rest is crap. Breacher, Kestrel, Tormentor (rofl) can´t compete with tristan.

So what do we get now? Overpowered Brutix and myrm?

Stop the whining peeps.

edit: I whine about ugly gal and cal ships in comparison to amarr and minmatar :P

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1312 - 2013-01-17 18:29:11 UTC
I think CCP should shake up the ships bonus more than just adjust them

Drake: -1 low, +1 mid, Bonus: +5% to missle RoF per lvl, and +5% to ecplostion velocity of missle per lvl. and add a buff to base speed

Ferox: switch optimal bonus for a fall off bonus, some how get it a utility high

Brutix: -1 turet slot, Bonus: +10% to hybrid turret damage per lvl, +5% to turret tracking per lvl.

Myrmidon: -1 turet slot, +25m3 bandwith, +50m3 drone bay

Cain: give it alittle grid back for that poor armor cain

Cyclone: i would like to see how curent missle idea works out first.

Prophocy: would liek to see how this one works out too

Harbbringer: little more CPU, and make armor rigs not slow ships down so much gosh dang it.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1313 - 2013-01-17 18:39:58 UTC
Vexor has always been the best cruiser, and you forgot:

Talos, far above the other tier 3s
Incursus aka the new Rifter
Imicus, the frigate after which all the other T1 scanning frigs were modelled
Proteus, the only PVP T3
Best assault frigs
Only working HAC
Best supers
Only EWAR that can win a Falcon

So is it really too much to ask that we also get the best combat BCs?

This is Gallente Online and you just have to adapt.

@ Greenlike ish

Ok, so you want to make the Myrm like current Brutix, and Brutix an improved Myrm but without drones. I don't really get why, but we'll see what Fozzie thinks.



.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#1314 - 2013-01-17 18:41:42 UTC
Roime wrote:
Vexor has always been the best cruiser, and you forgot:

Talos, far above the other tier 3s
Incursus aka the new Rifter
Imicus, the frigate after which all the other T1 scanning frigs were modelled
Proteus, the only PVP T3
Best assault frigs
Only working HAC
Best supers
Only EWAR that can win a Falcon

So is it really too much to ask that we also get the best combat BCs?

This is Gallente Online and you just have to adapt.

@ Greenlike ish

Ok, so you want to make the Myrm like current Brutix, and Brutix an improved Myrm but without drones. I don't really get why, but we'll see what Fozzie thinks.





This is easily one of the worst posts I've ever read.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1315 - 2013-01-17 19:02:43 UTC
I'm that good ;-)

.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1316 - 2013-01-17 19:06:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
@ Frozzie:

I would really like your feedback in regards to 5% resist bonus vs 7.5% Rep Bonus.

As clearly outlined in this thread, the 5% resist bonus is simply better than the 7.5% repair bonus.

A.) The Resist bonus is BETTER at active repping than the active rep bonused ship.
B.) The Resist bonus is BETTER at buffer tanking, where a ship's local rep bonus is irrelevant.
C.) The Resist bonus is BETTER for Remote Reps, where a ship's local rep bonus is irrelevant.

I don't want to homogenize the line-up, but it really doesn't seem right for the ship with an active rep bonus to be outclassed by the resist bonus in every situation...

Frankly, if you want to limit the use of a bonus to a specific type of tanking, make it so it's Superior at that limited role!!!

Alternatively, please the other "balancing factors" that you justify the inferior active rep bonus... Do they have much better cap regen? More generous dps potential? More .... I'd like to understand your balancing perspective!
Saramiir
Norsk Lakseoppdrett
#1317 - 2013-01-17 19:18:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Saramiir
The drake just looks sad now. Ham drake doesn't do "THAT" much dps compared to a Brutix/Cane/Harb(esp after buff) will just smother it in damage.

And it becomes even slower.

HML nerf was needed as the weapon system was just too good.

But.

Make the kin dmg bonus a RoF bonus atleast so it has something going for it, might be worth considering HML's after this goes live then(speed nerf makes it even worse to keep range vs speedy ships and it's agility got really shat on) so a slight HAM dmg bonus and changable damage types would be kinda helpful to make up for some of this)

As of now I'd just fly any other BC instead, and I have HM spec 5, only the Tengu is worth using with HML's now really.

If you keep going in this direction you might aswell just give it a 25% Kinetic Shield resist bonus instead of an All shield resist bonus and a 25% Kinetic Damage bonus to Hornets.
Sigras
Conglomo
#1318 - 2013-01-17 20:11:56 UTC
Roime wrote:
Vexor has always been the best cruiser, and you forgot:

Talos, far above the other tier 3s
Incursus aka the new Rifter
Imicus, the frigate after which all the other T1 scanning frigs were modelled
Proteus, the only PVP T3
Best assault frigs
Only working HAC
Best supers
Only EWAR that can win a Falcon

So is it really too much to ask that we also get the best combat BCs?

This is Gallente Online and you just have to adapt.

Ok, ill give you the talos . . . in fact they should probably remove the drone bay on that thing . . .
The Incursus lacks a utility high to tackle anything with a neut
the Imicus isnt really used in PvP
confirming that the tengu and loki arent a PvP T3s?
Ok, their assault frigates are pretty good too . . . but the other ships hold their own; it isnt a wide margin by any means
Ever hear of a zealot? or a vagabond? in fact which gallente HAC works well in PvP?
well the Aeon is pretty popular too, and IIRC the Avatar is the most popular titan, but they also have the worst carrier.
pretty much everyone agrees that ECM > Dampening even if dampening can beat ECM in a 1v1
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1319 - 2013-01-17 20:16:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Freighdee Katt
Saramiir wrote:
HML nerf was needed as the weapon system was just too good.

Probably true, but the hilarious thing is that now the Caracal and Drake have exactly the same effective range (when the Caracal is using light missiles no less), because the Caracal got the Velocity + ROF bonuses. All the more reason that the Drake should get the same (and lose the shield resist), to make the Drake into an actual upgrade instead of just something that Caldari pilots are forced to train, but will never actually use, on their way to the Raven.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
Greenlike ish
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1320 - 2013-01-17 20:33:20 UTC
Roime wrote:
Vexor has always been the best cruiser, and you forgot:

Talos, far above the other tier 3s
Incursus aka the new Rifter
Imicus, the frigate after which all the other T1 scanning frigs were modelled
Proteus, the only PVP T3
Best assault frigs
Only working HAC
Best supers
Only EWAR that can win a Falcon

So is it really too much to ask that we also get the best combat BCs?

This is Gallente Online and you just have to adapt.

@ Greenlike ish

Ok, so you want to make the Myrm like current Brutix, and Brutix an improved Myrm but without drones. I don't really get why, but we'll see what Fozzie thinks.


Something along those lines yes. I did not intend to sound as if I wanted gallente to be even better with my post. I only wanted to share my idea about the battlecruisers I am most familiar with. I don't feel I should comment on cruisers I haven't flown as much as the myrmidon and brutix. It is up to others to make interesting suggestions for the battlecruisers they know and fly.