Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Is there going to be any incentive whatsoever to use the Ferox over the Naga? Caldari have two range bonused hybrid platforms. One gets outfitted with eight guns that I dare say are pretty quality, and also has a damage bonus on top of that. The other gets seven, either of guns in the 'they're ok I guess' range, or the 'competing with HMLs for worst weapon system in EVE' ones. And it's also slower and only kind of tougher. I see no point in the Ferox existing as it is because the Naga outperforms it. I guess
the addition of a lowslot to the Ferox might let some more damage oriented fits happen for close range setups, but really, will it pull through?

Is there going to be any incentive for using Drakes over Cyclones? Like... Ever? I do see that there's a resistance bonus versus a shield boost one, but IMO what just breaks the Drake compared to the Cyclone is the lack of being able to choose damage types. Basically if you're expecting Drakes to be anywhere at all, fit kinetic hardeners and they just flounder because their DPS with any other missile type is kind of really poor given the lack of any kind of bonus whatsoever.

The other thing that perpetually confuses me is why Gallente ships keep getting far more structure than any other faction. What purpose does this serve? Do people actually hull tank? In real fights?

At least you succeeded in bringing sub-BC Caldari ships into the usability zone. Ferox doesn't look like it's gone in, Drake's on uneven territory. Maybe it'll actually be ok with HAMs and have a role as a semi-tough short range missile brawler type thing or something, I dunno. But what I am sure of is that that kinetic only damage bonus is not helping it.

Certain Gallente frigates people do indeed hull tank, as a decent tank is possible only with a Damage Control on them. However the reason is the nature of active tanking- you'll be likely to dip multiple times into structure when running active armor tank. Just like active shield tank dips into armor.

So... TL;DR version is:
Drake: NERF NERF NERF! Make it a useless ship!
Why not just remove this ship from the game? It's bad already after the missile nerf, now it gets hit where it was still keeping up: the defenses, turning it into a completely useless ship. The removal of the utility high hurts even more since I'll now have to remove a launcher (even less DPS!) to get my ganglink...

Cane: Not so bad but still a rather nasty hit. Removal of the high slot hurts...

Myrm: Drone boats are useless already in PvE but kept their place in PvP... not anymore! Neut Myrm was a great addition to any gang, now it gets seriously screwed.

Harbi: What looks like a nerf initially is actually a buff. Less turrets but FAR more firepower on the remaining ones (+25%!). Loss of PG/CPU hurts but with -1 turret - not so much. Same goes for cap.

So I guess we're heading back to the days when Amarr ships were THE only ones that mattered. Fly Amarr or be useless.

Lasers are powerful by default. Take for instance an unbonused battlecruiser with 6 guns (I'm using Ferox for this, except for range on hybrids where I'm using Brutix to get the base number). Let's assume 2 weapon upgrades in lows and use of most popular ammo (short range with ACs, IN Multifrequency + Scorch with lasers and CN Antimatter + Null with Blasters).

With 425mm AutoCannons II, it'll deal 329 dps at 1.5+12, with Heavy Neutron Blaster II it'll get 449 dps at 2.25+6.25 or 358 at 6.3+8.75, while with Heavy Pulse Lasers II, it'll get 367 dps at 7.5+5 or 292 at 22.5+5. That means that unbonused, anywhere beyond about 3.4 km where blasters drop under them, lasers will have superior damage to every other gun. As soon as you add a damage bonus, the dps goes through the roof (see Abaddon, Nightmare, Armageddon, Oracle for examples). So in a way, cap use is their balancing factor, you have the potential to do the most damage, but you also risk draining your ship and leave it defenseless. The cap bonus then offsets this risk at the cost of what could be a second damage bonus, resists or whatever. Had lasers not been working like that, CCP would be forced to lower their damage in order to balance them - and I'm sure we don't want that, do we?



Sturdier ship, meaning it's a better Blaster boat.



Drakes do more damage vs. kinetic targets and Cyclone only pulls ahead on other damage types if it uses utility slots for turrets. Most Cyclones are likely to be fitted with neuts or something similar, so Drakes will tend to deal more damage.

Dear CCP Fozzie,

I read your post from the 10th and I was initially calling for a damage bonus on the Ferox to replace the optimal, you convinced me however, to give it a go as presented as the 7th turret should bring it's damage up to being closer to on par with other battlecruisers which is one of the biggest things the hull currently lacks. Null and optimal presents at least an opportunity for something I would like to try and I hadn't considered the impact of the optimal bonus on PvE, as since I made enough money to work the market for ISK I haven't done much PvE in a long time.

So as for my request for a damage bonus to replace the optimal on the Ferox, consider it withdrawn. Those of you who liked my initial post can feel free to unlike it if you wish. If I want the full on damage blaster brawler there's always an improved Brutix out there I can fly as well.

I feel like the number of complaints around battlecruisers was not unexpected seeing as how they were the go-to ships for nearly everything EVE so I expected people to hate any changes to them at all, though there is one I'm very concerned about and that is the Harbinger. It's damage increase is nice for me as I have ~60 million SP but those who don't have that I feel will really suffer still and frankly I doubt I will use it much or at all with it so hard to move as it is, laser optimal is great and all but doesn't mean much if you're always using scorch against an opponent you can't web and can never catch up to, he's free to disengage the moment he feels threatened. Lowered fittings are also a serious concern as it lost more than a single focused medium pulse laser worth of fittings and the lowered amount also mean skills add less to a ship already notorious for fitting issues.

Of all the complaints over these changes, I feel the Hurricane is the most exaggerated. Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm only looking at the bracketed change numbers on the first page but with losing a high slot the standard Cane will now fit only one neut instead of two (which after reading the dev blog a few months ago about some BCs losing slots was exactly what I expected), but the grid and CPU are completely unchanged from the last patch. That says to me that you just gained extra fitting room on your Hurricane as you now need ~15-20 less CPU and ~175-200 less grid to use a standard fit. The damage is still there and your shield Cane can still push out around 750 dps with a standard shield fit and still have over 50k EHP and finally is only outpaced by the Cyclone. If anyone would have preferred the Hurricane lose either a mid or a low or a double bonused high (yeah right) they have yet to say so when I comment on the lost neut. So I think your Hurricane is pretty much spot on.

I should also say that I wasn't initially a big fan of the Prophecy but the more I think about it the more intrigued I am about getting a chance to play around with it. I would have loved to see it become a HAM ship but I'm getting used to the drone idea and I am having thoughts about what I can do with it now and I think its future is looking bright and has real potential to become one of my favorites.

As for the Gallente I'll suspend judgement until the active armor rep details are released, other than to say there may be a good case for not giving the rep bonus to both of them. Overall I wasn't initially impressed with these battlecruisers but the more I think on them the more I like what you've done, so much so that I'm finally going to like that first post. I've been really enjoying EVE's removal if tiers and re-balance efforts, it's given me lots of new toys to play with I wouldn't have ever touched with a 10 foot pole before. I look forward to the battleships.

- Val.

Drake still has awesome tank and does solid damage, you can still use Myrmidon as neut ship, and Harbinger is actually nerfed to the ground with its 30dps boost and -30pg nerf. In my book that is a bad trade off, especially on a ship that was already a ***** to fit even with implants and max skills.

I should learn to ignore posts that start with all caps and exclamation marks. They are full of stupid.

That's like asking if there's any reason to fly the Rupture over the Cane.

Oh look!
A race that has one of it's perfectly working cruisers scaled up for BC level without touching it's recepie for win in any way!
Who would have guessed, that it's the WINMatar?

Of course, you are assuming the 1km/sec MWDing (not orbit speed!) Ogres catch up to the target (plated battleship, or no MWD?), who doesn't shoot the non-repping and limited in supply (btw 600? 750 sig?) drones down as opposed to shooting at the ship that is know to fit a helluva rep making a fight long.
A fight, that once it's 7 drones are out is about shooting a punching bag.

Like I said, theoretical. In practice we're talking probably under long point ranges, which is still a lot more than blasters. There is more flexibility in range, not huge, and also flexibility in the way your ship can maneouver on the field without it affecting your applied dps.

Drone sig radius seriously needs to be looked at, they are just insanely too large now.

I'm going to take this advice, too. People need to learn that just because they see a number go down on a ship, it isn't suddenly a terrible ship.