Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Sure, but Cruisers got a (massive) speed buff and compared to other BC's the Harb (and Proph for that matter) are very much on the the bottom of the speed list, that is if you plate&trimark it. That is the case now and with the new changes it's still the case. So given that Raivi isn't dumb he probably has plans for that.

I'm not one for blind praise or worshipping but as stated; Raivi is not an idiot, I'm sure he thought of it.

- edit -

Just to be sure, I'm not looking for it to be faster perse, I'm looking for it to be on par with other BCs (while keeping in mind the ranged capabilities it has with scorch and thus "requiring" it to be slightly slower). And once all the stuff has been rebalanced I'm sure that'll be exactly the case. I'm not looking at a single ship and go "omg, it lost hp and stats and everythiiiing!!!", it's about understanding that BC's as a whole are getting a needed nerf but some need it more than others.

It almost makes you feel like CCP Fozzie is trolling us huh, releases new stats for ships and none of the information for what will be done about armor tanking. In order to have a constructive conversation abot the new gallente stats, we do need that information.

no guy

Old harbinger with skill V CPU 468.75 PWG 1875
New Harbinger with skill V CPU 437.5 PWG 1656.25

Heavy pulse II with skill CPU 26.3 PWG 187.2

You less -4.95 CPU and -31.55 PWG

And before the modification it's was already difficult to fits the ship

In relation to PvP and drones i think the myrmidon looks good, you need to choose between ewar or full dps, which i think is okay otherwise drone boats would be to flexible. If you don't bring heavies you can bring between 4 and 7 sets of mixed light and medium drones, which should leave room for both dps and ewar drones.

In PvE i can't really see where it would be practical to bring 4 heavies, when it means you can't bring spare drones. 3 Heavy and 2 medium gives the same dps as 4 heavies, and it will leave the drone bay needed to bring eg. 1 medium and 3 light drones extra as spares.

Ok...
Just looking at my sig you can tell I'm biased...
But why do I have -1 slot on my drone ships, if I only have one primary damage drone flight (for which it's damage output was balanced in mind with), and my guns alone do sub-cruiser level damage?

Thus far I felt it was in return for the flexibility or something. Now I'm no longer sure.

I have yet to see a single Raven fit a gun, even though it has that capability. :) Problem with Cyclone is that without the two turrets, it’ll do less damage than Drake even against non-kinetic targets. It’s only with those two turrets that it pulls ahead (more on this down with my Cyclone comment)

Anyway, let's see:

Prophecy: yay, a drone boat :) I really like how you’re giving Amarr a sort of, but not quite T1 missile line through the drone boats to prepare the Amarr player for the eventual Khanid line. I wonder if that means Khanid ships will get bigger drone bays too?

Harbinger: love it. More damage, bigger drone bay and less cap hungry, though it gets extra mass and slightly less tank.

Ferox: Most of the changes are cool (no more split weapon, yay!), though I'm not yet sure what to think of the unchanged bonuses. I mean, on the one hand, I love the optimal bonus, but on the other, lack of damage bonus kinda sucks. Then again, I'm not willing to part from the resist bonus either :D How will this translate into Rokh, which already gets outdamaged by Naga?

Frankly, I think you shot yourselves in the leg when you made Moa a brawler - if that were turned into a kiter, Ferox could then be made into a shield brawler without directly competing. Now you have to juggle between medium rails having no purpose and Ferox competing both against the Moa and the Naga. I wouldn’t want to be in your position.

Drake: I would have honestly prefered the "mini Raven" version that you initially played around with. I'll need to run numbers to see if this can still get cap stable with perma MWD - killing that would go a long way to killing drake blobs. Losing utility high sucks, but then I was always of the opinion that the utility highs should be placed on dedicated close range or kiter ships. Drake is neither. Also, brick is now even more brick.

I'm putting this into the undecided cathegory - if the ship's passive tank is still viable and the Podla drake can still work, but you managed to kill the perma-MWD, I'll give it a thumbs up, else it gets a thumbs down.

Brutix: I don't have enough experience with hybrid gallente boats to really comment on it, so passing the judgement to someone more competent in this regard.

Myrmidon: I like it, a bit more drone damage, this is the damage variant, while prophecy is the more tanky of the two.

Cyclone: I love it that it's a missile boat now, but I'm not sure about the split weapon systems. With 5 lows and preference to active shield tanking, I'm guessing the cyclone will be fit for max gank, which should put its dps between 352 (4x BCUII + 5 HM launchers) and 565 (4x BCUII, 5 HAM launchers, 2 425mm ACs). Add about 100 for drones if using Hammerhead IIs. For comparison, a 6 launcher Cyclone would have HAM dps of 589 (plus drones). I would have prefered the 6-launcher version, but I can live with this version too. I'm also guessing there will be plenty of people who will skip the turrets for utility, then complain how bad the Cyclone's dps is. Further testing required, but generally favourable.

EDIT: I just read one of the responses above and realized that two turrets here could be used for exploration for only about 70 dps less. With this in mind, I'm liking Cyclone a lot :D

Hurricane: ouch, cap sure got axed. And I was just thinking the other day how much easier Cane is to get cap stable with armor tank compared to Harbi - well, there goes that :p It seems you really decided to nerf the hell out of Cane and Drake, didn't ya? :D

Overall:

Favorites - Prophecy, Harbinger, Cyclone (need to test it)
Undecided - Ferox, Drake

Yes and no

The buff of DPS is interesting clr. Your decrease the tanking why not. But in this case the ship most be more agile.

Remember the problem with the gallente : No speed but heavy dps and medium tank that was simply not really playable because you can put your dps on the target.

Now the harbinger look excaclty the same the range and dps look good only.

Because you not have the agility and speed to put your ammo short range, you certainly must be to use only the long range t2 ammo. the dps is not really the same and the range is not terrible about 24 km.

The harbinger look like the drake but in armor. But you have more problem with fitting, range , and capa.

Try to use the harbinger in mwd you loose the advantage of the signature. you have more problem with your capa. In afterburner, you are really very slow (add a plate 1600mm ). And the inertia is really bad.

the tracking of the medium laser is not good.

Really you look like a sentry.

Tone that down to 6 and I'll agree.

The problem with the 7.5% bonus, regardless of the strength of armor reppers is thatit's simpyl relatively worse than a resistance bonus. There have been countless threads discussing the short comings of 7.5% rep compared to 5% resistance, the biggest being the very minimal difference in active tanking between ships equiped with said bonuses.

What needs to happen, independent of an armor repper pass, is an increase of the active bonus on the brutix, and all active hulls to 10% per level. Or to simply nerf resistance bonuses to 4% per level. Currently a 7.5% rep amount ship has like 3% more active tank than a 5% resistance ship while receiving weaker logi support, and having much less ehp. The active bonus needs to be buffed to make it at least stand out in it's niche, 3% advantage is not enough compared to the tradeoffs.

Negative