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Today's RR (stealth) Bug Fix, and its consequences

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Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#101 - 2013-01-09 16:49:28 UTC
Hey at least the exploits are now clear and easily understandable. Mission accomplished!

Watch me live for all your Empyrean news and analysis!

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#102 - 2013-01-09 16:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
I'm willing to bet money that the members of a corporation or alliance that join a war as defenders will gain suspect flags for assisting the people they joined and that two groups who are at war with the same people will gain suspect flags for assisting eachother. Even after the "fix" to alliance members gaining suspect flags.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#103 - 2013-01-09 17:01:54 UTC
I can't understand how so many people in this thread don't understand the extremely simple issue being mentioned.

Then again, I never understood how people got confused by the old aggression mechanics.

It's shocking that even with the massively oversimplified failwatch 2.0 mechanics, people still are completely oblivious to how things work
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#104 - 2013-01-09 17:06:28 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
I can't understand how so many people in this thread don't understand the extremely simple issue being mentioned.

Then again, I never understood how people got confused by the old aggression mechanics.

It's shocking that even with the massively oversimplified failwatch 2.0 mechanics, people still are completely oblivious to how things work


This. My faith in humanity diminishes every time I read these forums.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#105 - 2013-01-09 17:08:48 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
I can't understand how so many people in this thread don't understand the extremely simple issue being mentioned.

Then again, I never understood how people got confused by the old aggression mechanics.

It's shocking that even with the massively oversimplified failwatch 2.0 mechanics, people still are completely oblivious to how things work

Don't underestimate people's ability to misunderstand rules they don't like.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Kilago Hanomaa
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#106 - 2013-01-11 05:56:28 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Posting to let you know I'm well aware of this. The change was not in the patchnotes because it was related to an exploit which I'm not going to get in to a discussion about on here (and isn't quite as the OP states)

I am going to be adjusting the War+Suspect+Assistance rule so that it considers intra-alliance assistance as legal in the same way that it currently treats intra-corp assistance, since corps in an alliance will always share the same set of war targets.

Also note that for the purposes of this rule, FW militias/corps/alliances are not considered to be 'at war' just by being enlisted (notwithstanding that they might be in a regular war with another corp/alliance of course, in which case the original rule will take effect)


The issue we had today with the OP was that our Alliance, [General Tso's Alliance] is at war with his/hers [Break-A-Wish Foundation]. I spotted them on local (nice name, guys!), and let my alliance mates know (I'm a total noob and a PvP virgin).

As my alliance mates were assembling the fleet and warping to system, they engaged the known PvP alliance fleet (who undocked at almost exactly the same time my alliance warped in), and were ambushed by NEUTRAL RR.

Here's one of the kills: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=18476700#involvedPilots

Now, as you can see, two pilots are listed as both "Friendly" and "Enemy." Neither of them belong to any alliance.

In other words, it isn't player D coming to assist alliance mate B, It's anonymous X and Y flying and saying UP YOURS, pilots A and C. That's who got temporarily flagged as suspect.

Now, how is this at all okay? Since were in high sec, why weren't the non-affiliated parties flagged by Concord? Why is their participation allowed to affect war stats unidriectionally without permanent status marking? Or am I missing where their names blink for me?

As I said: I'm a noob, and I'd like to learn these intricacies of EVE if I'm gong to be shilling out real money.
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#107 - 2013-01-11 06:27:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Adriel Malakai
Kilago Hanomaa wrote:
The issue we had today with the OP was that our Alliance, [General Tso's Alliance] is at war with his/hers [Break-A-Wish Foundation]. I spotted them on local (nice name, guys!), and let my alliance mates know (I'm a total noob and a PvP virgin).

As my alliance mates were assembling the fleet and warping to system, they engaged the known PvP alliance fleet (who undocked at almost exactly the same time my alliance warped in), and were ambushed by NEUTRAL RR.

Here's one of the kills: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/engagement.php?id=18476700#involvedPilots

Now, as you can see, two pilots are listed as both "Friendly" and "Enemy." Neither of them belong to any alliance.

In other words, it isn't player D coming to assist alliance mate B, It's anonymous X and Y flying and saying UP YOURS, pilots A and C. That's who got temporarily flagged as suspect.

Now, how is this at all okay? Since were in high sec, why weren't the non-affiliated parties flagged by Concord? Why is their participation allowed to affect war stats unidriectionally without permanent status marking? Or am I missing where their names blink for me?

As I said: I'm a noob, and I'd like to learn these intricacies of EVE if I'm gong to be shilling out real money.


Ok, a couple of things here. First of all, BC is bad and the fight between the helios and the cynabal was separate. The links for those mails can be found here and here. Because those kills share a system and similar time to your rupture loss, they got grouped in. Again, Battleclinic is terrible.

Now, for the engagement that you are actually talking about, in which we used neutral RR, can be found here (remember to remove "amp;" from the URL because these forums and links don't mix well). What happened in that case was our neutral logi went Suspect once they started repping, meaning that they are legal targets to anyone and everyone in EVE. Logistics ships are not included on kill mails/loss mails unless they use their own offensive mod(s) or drone(s).

As far as the logi being neutral, it is because we are an alliance. As you can see from the battle report, multiple corps from our alliance (and a member from a different alliance also at war with you) were involved. Currently, if you are in combat with war targets, and a member of your alliance who is not in your corp reps you, they will go suspect, just like neutral RR. Because of this, there is no benefit of having them in alliance. Once this issue is fixed (as per CCP Masterplan's post) our logi will be brought into the alliance so that they do not go suspect when we use them in fights vs WTs.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#108 - 2013-01-11 06:30:25 UTC
We're at war with General Tso's? God dammit, why can't I be around a real computer!

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#109 - 2013-01-11 11:17:27 UTC
As a developer has given a response to the original issue and pledged a fix for it, and this thread has devolved into a bunch of trolling, I am locking it.

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