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Establishments in Winter 2011 Expansion, yes or no?

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Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
#241 - 2011-10-08 22:26:49 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Who the **** knows what CCP will do now. There are so many lies and broken promises that I just don't know what to believe.

I'm kinda tempted to leave EVE and come back in 12 months and see if anything has changed. Rather than this 'wait and see' bullshit.


This is almost exactly what I did. I just came back to EVE in august after an 8 months long hiatus. I had no beef with CCP or any intent when I left for a while, I only was a little bored but looking forward to Incarna or rather, what the devblogs said Incarna would be. I came back on a reactivation special offer to see how things were.

Needless to say, I was disappointed of what I saw but I was willing to wait for the rest; this could take a while.

I love EVE and I'm not going anywhere this time because I play with a friend and I'm having fun. However, I thought for a long time that, as a sand box with such a deep lore, there ought to be a way to get more into the "pilot" aspect of EVE, that social interaction, on an individual level, would bring a dimension to this game like there never has been before in the game industry.

Of course, in order to make just that Incarna had to be incredible; it had to have the depth needed to reflect what FiS is and this was/is a tall order.

I agree that making sure EVE's main element, spaceships, is fun and functional is primordial. Sadly however, I think no games in this emergent cut-throat industry can hope to survive in a restricted niche market; at least not without giving up something on some fronts such as quality, diversity or innovation.

A completed and functional concept such as Incarna might very well still be necessary for EVE's survival in the long run. I guess we'll see.

"It is when I think about meaning that I lose what I meant to say."     -Swooshie
Wolfcan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#242 - 2011-10-08 23:20:48 UTC
Swooshie wrote:
A completed and functional concept such as Incarna might very well still be necessary for EVE's survival in the long run. I guess we'll see.

I couldn't agree with you more Swooshie. But the problem that exists now is the total focus on WiS, Dust514 and WoD. Basically no development on Eve for 18 months plus. This decision is killing the income stream to develop WiS features. If you ignore your current player base in order to create a "bigger, better" player base you will destroy your current game. This method has never worked in any game. CCP has bitten off more than they can chew. They need total refocusing, fix Eve then get onto WiS, Dust514 and WoD.
Oberine Noriepa
#243 - 2011-10-09 01:51:19 UTC
Numance wrote:
and does this refocusing to FiS will push back DUST514 from summer 2012 release ?

A completely different team (CCP Shanghai) is working on Dust 514.

∃
Shepard Book
Underground Stargate
#244 - 2011-10-09 03:23:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Book
Wolfcan wrote:
. This method has never worked in any game.


You may want to look up a company called Blizzard.
Xavier Zedicus
Eidolon Reticulum
#245 - 2011-10-09 03:32:25 UTC
FiS, also abbreviates to Fighting in station.... so really not a good term to use.

Nerf Rock, Paper is fine. - Scissors 
Wolfcan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#246 - 2011-10-09 04:06:57 UTC
Shepard Book wrote:
Wolfcan wrote:
. This method has never worked in any game.


You may want to look up a company called Blizzard.

Um, yeah. Blizzard has millions of subscribers. It has the money and resources to do what ever it wants. CCP doesn't. They have a limited amount of money for development. Further, the continued decline of subscribers in EVE indicate something is seriously wrong with the game.....
Flamespar
WarRavens
#247 - 2011-10-09 05:55:43 UTC
Xavier Zedicus wrote:
FiS, also abbreviates to Fighting in station.... so really not a good term to use.


It also equals Fashion in Stations. Lol
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#248 - 2011-10-09 06:02:34 UTC
Shepard Book wrote:
Wolfcan wrote:
. This method has never worked in any game.


You may want to look up a company called Blizzard.


You may want to look up the trend in the numbr of people logging in to EVE.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#249 - 2011-10-09 13:35:14 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
CCP Solomon wrote:
there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun.



You know what makes not-fun things fun?

Guns.

There you go.

Just saved CCP hundreds of thousands in consultants and marketing research.


And boobs, you forgot boobs. It´s proven that it´s the best way to make not-fun things fun ever.Tons of ****** movies were saved by boobs.

Also who wouldn´t like to see mitten put his leather thong on and become Lady Scarlets biitch?Twisted

I got lost in thought... it was unfamiliar territory.
Athiven SkyWolf
Archusa Corporation
#250 - 2011-10-09 21:45:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Athiven SkyWolf
Wolfcan wrote:
Shepard Book wrote:
Wolfcan wrote:
. This method has never worked in any game.


You may want to look up a company called Blizzard.

Um, yeah. Blizzard has millions of subscribers. It has the money and resources to do what ever it wants. CCP doesn't. They have a limited amount of money for development. Further, the continued decline of subscribers in EVE indicate something is seriously wrong with the game.....


Yes and one of the way to find money other than subscriptions is NEX items that people walking in station would get. Or do you think developpers are all volunteering for the joy to supply you new toys ? Guess what, they need to be paid. Or would you prefer commercial advertising ? Imagine commercial about Coke or other companies interrupting to show a full screen on" minute ad every 10 minute. Or items that you could buy only with real money, like a tech 5 DeathStar ? Even if you don't care for Incarna, consider that and think that after all it is not that bad.

Also, i am a paying subscriber too and i am tired to see my money go to things i don't care for. I don't care if big battles (well if you consider 200 or 300 big, but heh can't do more with nullsec pop) are less laggy as said to be in next winter. As said before nullsec only concerns a handful of people. I don't care if they get a new tech 4 or tech 5 ship. I am waiting for Incarna now for 6 years and have seen it repeatedly pushed back to let developpers cater to the nullsec minority. All this time i didn't complain. Now that there is ONE expansion focused on finally releasing walking in station Incarna haters again tries to push it back ?

Most Incarna haters are playing for 4 or 5+ years. I bet most are just farming pirates or asteroids to get a few millions to buy plex. Most subscription money is not coming from them. Not only are the nullsec population small but they are also then not a big source of income.
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#251 - 2011-10-09 21:53:56 UTC
Khira Kitamatsu wrote:
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.



That is what I needed to hear. Accounts cancelled.



i bet the subs are still running

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
MissingNo1
Perkone
Caldari State
#252 - 2011-10-09 22:02:02 UTC
iNfeck7ed wrote:
CCP actually learned its lesson and is not going to rush through crappy establishment expansions. Meanwhile, it has given us a template of fixes it will be working on for winter such as hybrid rebalancing, FW changes, sov mech changes, assault frig bonus fix, etc, as described in the recent devs. These are way more important so just sit tight. If you feel the need to walk your avatar, go play WoW and come back when WIS is fully launched. I'll light a cyno for you when it's here.


You do realise that WiS is a 6-8 year old concept, right?

It was first displayed at a fan fest years ago (which, I may add, has been ninja'd from CCP's YouTube page).
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#253 - 2011-10-10 16:24:47 UTC
MissingNo1 wrote:
iNfeck7ed wrote:
CCP actually learned its lesson and is not going to rush through crappy establishment expansions. Meanwhile, it has given us a template of fixes it will be working on for winter such as hybrid rebalancing, FW changes, sov mech changes, assault frig bonus fix, etc, as described in the recent devs. These are way more important so just sit tight. If you feel the need to walk your avatar, go play WoW and come back when WIS is fully launched. I'll light a cyno for you when it's here.


You do realise that WiS is a 6-8 year old concept, right?

It was first displayed at a fan fest years ago (which, I may add, has been ninja'd from CCP's YouTube page).


Seems to have gone backward since 2008: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#254 - 2011-10-13 12:37:44 UTC
So in the end we are still playing EVE Online: Incursions only with the crappy CQ atm.

I do enjoy FiS, but did also see a lot of potential in the WiS part. But I do like that CCP now actually first going to plan and improve stuff before releasing it to the masses. Now let's hope this won't take another 2 or 3 years though as all that booze I stored for my own bar in 4-4 won't last that long P

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

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Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#255 - 2011-10-13 13:19:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Apollo-Moor
betoli wrote:
MissingNo1 wrote:
iNfeck7ed wrote:
CCP actually learned its lesson and is not going to rush through crappy establishment expansions. Meanwhile, it has given us a template of fixes it will be working on for winter such as hybrid rebalancing, FW changes, sov mech changes, assault frig bonus fix, etc, as described in the recent devs. These are way more important so just sit tight. If you feel the need to walk your avatar, go play WoW and come back when WIS is fully launched. I'll light a cyno for you when it's here.


You do realise that WiS is a 6-8 year old concept, right?

It was first displayed at a fan fest years ago (which, I may add, has been ninja'd from CCP's YouTube page).


Seems to have gone backward since 2008: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E


Funny looks like those guys are sittiing in some sort of War Room at the end possibly looking at PI installations... Hmm I wonder how not having that will effect DUST514.. Hmm

CCP You guys are ****** on that project without WiS believe me. I play console FPS and when you release that and people realize that they sort of need EVE players. It will tank, cause EVE players won't be WiS and won't give a **** about DUST514 players holding their pencils waiting for orders.
Naran Eto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#256 - 2011-10-13 14:32:21 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.



Translation: We at CCP don't like confrontation so to quiet down all members of the loud noisy and aggressively whiny vocal minority we have put it on the back burner and are working on ships again.
Oberine Noriepa
#257 - 2011-10-13 15:00:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Oberine Noriepa
Apollo-Moor wrote:
betoli wrote:
MissingNo1 wrote:
iNfeck7ed wrote:
CCP actually learned its lesson and is not going to rush through crappy establishment expansions. Meanwhile, it has given us a template of fixes it will be working on for winter such as hybrid rebalancing, FW changes, sov mech changes, assault frig bonus fix, etc, as described in the recent devs. These are way more important so just sit tight. If you feel the need to walk your avatar, go play WoW and come back when WIS is fully launched. I'll light a cyno for you when it's here.


You do realise that WiS is a 6-8 year old concept, right?

It was first displayed at a fan fest years ago (which, I may add, has been ninja'd from CCP's YouTube page).


Seems to have gone backward since 2008: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E


Funny looks like those guys are sittiing in some sort of War Room at the end possibly looking at PI installations... Hmm I wonder how not having that will effect DUST514.. Hmm

CCP You guys are ****** on that project without WiS believe me. I play console FPS and when you release that and people realize that they sort of need EVE players. It will tank, cause EVE players won't be WiS and won't give a **** about DUST514 players holding their pencils waiting for orders.

That's actually a minigame called Conquest. It has nothing to do with Dust 514. A Dust view is going to be available through Planetary Interaction. It was available in the last Singularity mirror.

∃
WisdomLikeSilence
BurgerkingTM
#258 - 2011-10-13 15:15:50 UTC
Raven Aldura wrote:
[quote=CCP Solomon]CCP please don't bring incarna up again until you mean it. This tease has gone on long enough. Screw this.



QFT

Seriously, Next time you bring up the subject of Incarna it had better be "here is the FINISHED INCARNA project"

By the way, the subscriber drop had little or nothing to do with Incarna expansions underwhelmingness and a lot to do with the Anomaly Nerf - which has made it impractical for thousands of players to maintain dual or triple accounts AS PREDICTED.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#259 - 2011-10-13 16:00:05 UTC
WisdomLikeSilence wrote:
Raven Aldura wrote:
[quote=CCP Solomon]CCP please don't bring incarna up again until you mean it. This tease has gone on long enough. Screw this.



QFT

Seriously, Next time you bring up the subject of Incarna it had better be "here is the FINISHED INCARNA project"

By the way, the subscriber drop had little or nothing to do with Incarna expansions underwhelmingness and a lot to do with the Anomaly Nerf - which has made it impractical for thousands of players to maintain dual or triple accounts AS PREDICTED.


Ahhh, no.

If someone in null is too stupid to figure out how to make good money post nerf, all they need do is go back to having a money making alt in Empire. That's how it worked for years and nothing has occured to make that more difficult... in fact it would be easier now than ever, considering the changes to agent quality.

Need I point out that this would give even more incentive to have multiple accounts...

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Bagehi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#260 - 2011-11-04 19:30:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagehi
Malcanis wrote:
Shepard Book wrote:
Wolfcan wrote:
. This method has never worked in any game.


You may want to look up a company called Blizzard.


You may want to look up the trend in the numbr of people logging in to EVE.


People are logging back into Eve, despite all the games that have been coming out, and that's saying something. I've been flying with a few people in my corp that I haven't seen in over a year. The direction change and what is coming out has been bringing people back to Eve. That is good. However, I am with many in this thread when I say that I hope Incarna isn't abandoned. The potential for Incarna being awesome is there. What we got was severely lacking.

Ranger 1 wrote:
Ahhh, no.

If someone in null is too stupid to figure out how to make good money post nerf, all they need do is go back to having a money making alt in Empire. That's how it worked for years and nothing has occured to make that more difficult... in fact it would be easier now than ever, considering the changes to agent quality.

Need I point out that this would give even more incentive to have multiple accounts...


Honestly, Incursions are a bigger money maker than anoms ever were and significantly more fun than any of the other income sources in Eve right now.