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Establishments in Winter 2011 Expansion, yes or no?

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Reeno Coleman
#181 - 2011-10-07 10:25:23 UTC
No establishments = less overcooked graphics cards
Forum Bug
Doomheim
#182 - 2011-10-07 10:28:42 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Ciar Meara wrote:
Forums ate my post (again)

Short version:

Jade Constantine is right

Excluding players input in a game like eve is a dead end

Players should be able to find items in stocks while doing missions, dead space complexes and creating them in one way or another selling those on to guys who have establishments. Thus creating an economy. Not unlike the gold mining in the 1800's. (reference to aurum yes).

- Blood raider uniforms and pirate hats, etc from missions/plexes

- executive skirts, boots, etc made by professions (with poly textiles and what not from PI)

- Dress Uniforms , ceremonial swords/khumaak, etc from faction warfare

All items should have flair, character and avoid to be to bland (like today)

There should be different clothing stores, tatoo parlours, hairdressers, manned by NPC's (slaves in Amarr) but doing the work you pay them for through your rent, buying extra tatoo's and clothes from guys who went out and found them. Mid level buyers would even be created to sell in bulk to big players/shops.

Illegal items would be smuggled in though low sec to be sold there to more seedy establishments/bars and backdoor deals like establishments. Incarna needs to be done when it is done, and not a second earlier. And as it seems completly redesigned.




All this is great stuff.

And you know the real kicker?

If items of clothing and avatar customization WERE actually player discovered/found/manufactured/sold and resold and completely integrated with the Eve economy then nobody would have a problem with them actually having some attributes and in-game effect.

Nightstalker goggles with small bonus to frigate guns?
Elaborate dress skirts with a bonus to fast talk?
Blood raider ceremonial robes with (shock horror) a bonus to lp for blood raider mission rewards?

Bring these things to the player exploration/production domain and out of the horrible MT/NeX corruption and we can adding actual meaningful items to the database again.

And the stupid thing is that CCP would STILL get some kind of income bump from RL cash rich players buying timecards and selling plex to afford the rarer stuff just like they do currently with pirate implant sets and flashy ships.

Absolutely everybody wins and we preserve the Eve economic sandbox.

Of course designing clothing with in-game attributes rather than out of game $ signs will require giving somebody the job of balancing/coding the bonus levels but how much richer and more immersive would it be deliver content in this way?




My god jade you are one sexy individual when you talk in these terms, its a vison that CCP needs. CCP never asked how they could break new ground with this MMO and figure unique "sandboxy" ways to make money. They seemingly hired some marketing guysin a suit who said oh look everyone is offering a bloody MT store lets do that.

This game should always be making history not living it!!!


CCP Listen please
Crucis Cassiopeiae
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#183 - 2011-10-07 10:40:34 UTC
i would just say... CCP disappointed me one more time...
i was looking forward to incarna... and now squat...
look at this as big picture... we will get few patches (in one whole year) instead of big bang expansion of eve... (CQ are nothing without the rest of incarna)... so much time spent on nothing... and this patches are things that they can do in small time frame so that why we will get them...

and the most sad thing is that all ppl that i managed to invite to EVE... the last click before they said yes and created account was incarna and what i could be... now there is big chance that they are gone... Sad ...and its so hard to get rl friends to EVE...

Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 
cBOLTSON
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#184 - 2011-10-07 11:15:56 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun. Additionally, we wanted to ensure that our rendering technology was finely tuned to a point that would ensure all of your characters continued to look great while performing well.

It’s humbling to see the support in this thread for a multiplayer Incarna experience and we are still committed to providing it, as and when it’s ready. We want to take the time to do it right and ensure you guys get something that is both fun and involving. There are no promises about when this will happen, just rest assured that while you are enjoying your space based updates this winter, there will continue to be movement on this.



Good man. First thankyou for being honest. Secondly its not that we DONT want multiplayer incarna, im sure it would be intresting. We just do not want a half finished product and im sure you guys understand this.

For me and for most of my corp and alliance we are more intrested in SPACE updates and fixes so make this winter expansion one that mabye will restore our faith in you ccp.

The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#185 - 2011-10-07 11:21:54 UTC
Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:
i would just say... CCP disappointed me one more time...
i was looking forward to incarna... and now squat...
look at this as big picture... we will get few patches (in one whole year) instead of big bang expansion of eve... (CQ are nothing without the rest of incarna)... so much time spent on nothing... and this patches are things that they can do in small time frame so that why we will get them...

and the most sad thing is that all ppl that i managed to invite to EVE... the last click before they said yes and created account was incarna and what i could be... now there is big chance that they are gone... Sad ...and its so hard to get rl friends to EVE...


Well, my friends will not leave because of Incarna not coming in the so-called "Winter Expansion" patch.
We usually fly together in space almost every day and they have become quite addicted.

But just to illustrate for those who do not understand the fascination WiS has on many people:
- 2 of them played STO and RIFT before, 1 STO and AION. 2 came from WOW/LOTRO. All STO players agreed that EVE was the better SciFi Game, but all only joined after they introduced avatars and made the promise that said avatars could soon meet. Understand it or do not. It doesn't matter.

- First reaction when I told them that there would be no Establishments, not even a meet-in-person option, but instead what was on the list:

One said: "Well, at least a reason to look forward to SWTOR again."
The reactions of the rest were more or less: "Oh, this is an expansion? Looks like patches."
All were very disappointed. All will probably stay in EVE, because we like to fly together. But I'm not so sure they will want to "just fly" forever without any chance of social interaction you have in any other game.

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Raven Aldura
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#186 - 2011-10-07 11:24:26 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:
Raven Aldura wrote:

WIS and FIS are not mutually exclusive


They indeed are when you have a finite amount of development time and resources to put towards it.



If I have $10 and I want some widget A and some widget B, I can buy $5 of each. And what do you consider finite time? CCP has put 5 years into WIS. That doesn't sound like they are too worried about time constraints.
Crucis Cassiopeiae
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#187 - 2011-10-07 11:36:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Crucis Cassiopeiae
Aidan Brooder wrote:
Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:
i would just say... CCP disappointed me one more time...
i was looking forward to incarna... and now squat...
look at this as big picture... we will get few patches (in one whole year) instead of big bang expansion of eve... (CQ are nothing without the rest of incarna)... so much time spent on nothing... and this patches are things that they can do in small time frame so that why we will get them...

and the most sad thing is that all ppl that i managed to invite to EVE... the last click before they said yes and created account was incarna and what i could be... now there is big chance that they are gone... Sad ...and its so hard to get rl friends to EVE...


Well, my friends will not leave because of Incarna not coming in the so-called "Winter Expansion" patch.
We usually fly together in space almost every day and they have become quite addicted.

But just to illustrate for those who do not understand the fascination WiS has on many people:
- 2 of them played STO and RIFT before, 1 STO and AION. 2 came from WOW/LOTRO. All STO players agreed that EVE was the better SciFi Game, but all only joined after they introduced avatars and made the promise that said avatars could soon meet. Understand it or do not. It doesn't matter.

- First reaction when I told them that there would be no Establishments, not even a meet-in-person option, but instead what was on the list:

One said: "Well, at least a reason to look forward to SWTOR again."
The reactions of the rest were more or less: "Oh, this is an expansion? Looks like patches."
All were very disappointed. All will probably stay in EVE, because we like to fly together. But I'm not so sure they will want to "just fly" forever without any chance of social interaction you have in any other game.



I understand their reaction very well...
and i think that 1 year before SWTOR is released EVE could not allow itself not to have any expansion... just patches...
but this is EVE with CCP developing it... and here is everything possible... they promised incarna for 5 years and nothing...
now we will see how number of players go down when SWTOR lunches...

Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#188 - 2011-10-07 11:48:32 UTC
Well, personally I think that EVE and SWTOR are totally different games.
I know most of our group will play both EVE & SWTOR. But it will show how much time will be spent in EVE and how much time in SWTOR.

A few weeks ago, when WiS was still confidently announced to get meeting options in winter, many said: "Perhaps I don't even play SWTOR."

Now the "spaceship only" thing is back on the table. I guess people want to stretch their legs... ;)
In the end the old guard will not leave EVE I think, but they will lose many of the new players that were intrigued by Incarna. I'm especially sure they will lose a lot of new female players.

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#189 - 2011-10-07 11:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:
i would just say... CCP disappointed me one more time...
i was looking forward to incarna... and now squat...
look at this as big picture... we will get few patches (in one whole year) instead of big bang expansion of eve... (CQ are nothing without the rest of incarna)... so much time spent on nothing... and this patches are things that they can do in small time frame so that why we will get them...



A vintage racing car mechanic starts building a 1/20th scale replica of the Empire State building in his back garden. 1st year he lays the foundations. 2nd year he rips them up and changes the depth of the concrete. 3rd year he goes back to the drawing board and redesigns it as the eiffel tower. 4th year he plans to hire out the (yet unfinished) tower as a carnivale ride. 5th year he starts building the thing and it collapses into a neighbours hedge.

His neighbours come round, make him a cup of a tea, pat him on the back and say "why don't you get back to restoring cooper 500s and forget about that tower entirely? We love your damn cars to death!"

Quote:
.... and the most sad thing is that all ppl that i managed to invite to EVE... the last click before they said yes and created account was incarna and what i could be... now there is big chance that they are gone... Sad ...and its so hard to get rl friends to EVE...


Anybody who would would have stayed in Eve as a result of what Incarna CQ's + content arid Establishments could deliver is in serious need of some proper fps gaming.

If I want to play with an avatar I load up Space Marine / Rage / Borderlands / Fallout or something of that kind.

Eve is spaceships. The people I've successfully introduced to this game are the kind of gamers that liked Elite, Freespace, Independence War, Homeworld, Master of Orion, Supreme Commander or going back a bit further - Battletech, Star Fleet Battles, Full Thrust, - that kind of thing.

Its a game for spaceship nerds of both sexes that really like lasers, siege misssles, deep space exploration and star-wars esq fleet battles and skirmishes.

Its not (and likely never will be) wow in space because the avatar part will not have any action gameplay.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Svennig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#190 - 2011-10-07 11:51:10 UTC
Crucis Cassiopeiae wrote:
i would just say... CCP disappointed me one more time...
i was looking forward to incarna... and now squat...
look at this as big picture... we will get few patches (in one whole year) instead of big bang expansion of eve... (CQ are nothing without the rest of incarna)... so much time spent on nothing... and this patches are things that they can do in small time frame so that why we will get them...

and the most sad thing is that all ppl that i managed to invite to EVE... the last click before they said yes and created account was incarna and what i could be... now there is big chance that they are gone... Sad ...and its so hard to get rl friends to EVE...


It's not gone. This expansion they're going to focus on FiS while they perfect the technology for WiS. This is absolutely positively the best of both worlds, by far. We get a good expansion of WiS content which fixes some serious issues in the game, and then in the new year they can look to actually making a real incarna, based on a rock-solid tuned platform with lots of reusable graphics content that they can take and throw into establishments, different/bigger quarters, whatever.

My issue has never been with incarna. It's been with doing incarna while the rest of the game is broken. Once they've fixed the game, incarna is going to be awesome. I mean you've seen the fuckin Gallente quarters right? Just think of the amount of content that they'll be able to make in that graphic style. I'm semi-hard just thinking about it. And it'll be based on a more-mature technology.

CCP: Thankyou. Incarna will have its day, but the focus of this expansion on space issues is spot on.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2011-10-07 11:57:13 UTC
Thanks for taking your time on establishments.

However, I'd personally be happy if you were able to release the promenade area for social gatherings.

I'm starting to get cabin fever.

:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOyvRTA2Ps&feature=related

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2011-10-07 11:57:40 UTC
CCP Solomon wrote:
Sadly, the Establishments feature will not be coming in the winter expansion. We hear you guys loud and clear and realize that there is still strong support for a multiplayer, avatar based experience in EVE (we also hear those that don’t want it). However, we think you’ll agree that it has to be a compelling experience and there was a feeling amongst our people that the direction we were taking with the Establishments feature was… well, not that fun.


Yes I think there is support for it. But CCP haven't exactly been forthcoming on what ideas they have about gameplay. You guys need to put some stuff on the table, tell us whats possible, whats not, and what your thinking of putting in. Otherwise we'll be in the same place in 12 months time as we are now! Quite frankly it looks like there is a shortage of creative ideas that would make WiS worthwhile and get the large number of grumblers thinking its a good idea....
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#193 - 2011-10-07 11:58:45 UTC
Since pretty much every opinion has been stated I will try a little humour Big smile

KhaelaMensha Khaine wrote:
you know where the door is. :)


I am not sure that they know where the door is.
































They actually use the captain quarters Lol

Spinning avatar on line Big smile


Slade
Flamespar
WarRavens
#194 - 2011-10-07 12:53:04 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
Thanks for taking your time on establishments.

However, I'd personally be happy if you were able to release the promenade area for social gatherings.

I'm starting to get cabin fever.

:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOyvRTA2Ps&feature=related



Aw you made me sad.

By reminding me what was once promised Cry
Raven Aldura
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#195 - 2011-10-07 13:02:31 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
Thanks for taking your time on establishments.

However, I'd personally be happy if you were able to release the promenade area for social gatherings.

I'm starting to get cabin fever.

:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOyvRTA2Ps&feature=related



Aw you made me sad.

By reminding me what was once promised Cry


The date on that video causes me physical pain :P
Amro One
One.
#196 - 2011-10-07 13:32:51 UTC
EVE = Internet Barbie in spaceships

Still have no idea why all those who hate CQ complain about graphic cards cooking when they never uses it. ???
Alaizabel Bronstein
Doomheim
#197 - 2011-10-07 13:51:43 UTC
Scitor Nantom wrote:
Keep my post in mind when I say that the dynamic screens and avatars are very immersive. I like this direction. I do like that you are focusing on the core elements too... flying in space, faction warfare, etc... but you guys have got me hooked on the "dry" (non amniotic fluid) experience.

Consider that for many players "non-immersion" has become a cherished feature of EVE.

One of the things that really sets EVE apart from other games is the ease with which we create, trash, buy, sell, burn our characters - an attitude that contributes a lot to the metagaming aspect of EVE.

If people would suddenly start to identify with their characters instead of viewing them as (ultimately disposable) assets & tools EVE would change a lot.

I believe EVE would have developed into a very different environment if we had started with avatars from day one (instead of "being" a ship that looks the same no matter which character pilots it) and I am not sure I would prefer that version of EVE to the current one.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#198 - 2011-10-07 14:02:06 UTC
Raven Aldura wrote:
If I have $10 and I want some widget A and some widget B, I can buy $5 of each.
Only if they're sold in $1 or $5 packets. Unfortunately, there is a $10 minimum buy-in in this case…
Raven Aldura
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#199 - 2011-10-07 14:40:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Raven Aldura wrote:
If I have $10 and I want some widget A and some widget B, I can buy $5 of each.
Only if they're sold in $1 or $5 packets. Unfortunately, there is a $10 minimum buy-in in this case…


Incorrect, arbitrary, and without support. Thanks for nothing. If you want to play again, we accept logic, reasoning, and/or material support.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#200 - 2011-10-07 14:46:00 UTC
Raven Aldura wrote:
Incorrect
No. Development resources are not infinitely divisible and have mandatory overhead costs.
Quote:
arbitrary
It was your analogy, so that's your problem.
Quote:
without support
…apart from reality.
Quote:
If you want to play again, we accept logic, reasoning, and/or material support.
Then maybe you should present some rather than your dribble.