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Faction Warfare: Moving Forward.....

First post First post
Author
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#41 - 2011-10-09 20:55:26 UTC
They are welcome to come visit or even put down roots in the FW areas, but the problem with them joining up (for me at least) is that if they have all the benefits that null provide plus access to stupidly lucrative FW missions and the greatest wardec of all time .. there is no downside whatsoever which is contrary to Eve philosophy.

New up and coming alliances are a shoe-in as they probably haven't got any space yet and FW has up until now been used quite a lot by corps for recruitment purposes, but I am fairly certain that all the RP alliances have space, if only for appearances and cranking out a cap once in a while ..

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#42 - 2011-10-10 17:01:28 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
- Plexes are a mix of not only sizes but goals. Hacking, Archaeology, straight up red-cross popping etc. are all represented, most of them should be designed to disallow solo capture (see below).
- *Hacking example* Goal can take the form of a mini-game contests where one side is trying to break into data nodes while the other tries to encrypt/secure them (think DeusEx:HR hacking minigame). By requiring twin nodes to be accessed at a time for it to work the solo-frig can be eradicated.
- Time to complete for attacker should aim for roughly same as now while time for defender is shorter .. locking a door is considerably easier than breaking it down. .


You don’t want FW to work for huge numbers from alliances but you also don’t want it to work for solo pilots either. Let me guess, you want it to work for the size groups your corp typically flies in and no one else. P

The militia should be available to solo pvpers. Solo pvpers are often solo because they can’t commit to blocks of time to be available in a fleet. This also means that these same pvpers will not work out well for null sec. EVE is loses/never had this playerbase and I would be willing to bet it’s a huge hit to their subscription base.

Moreover due to concerns over spies some fcs want you to get some solo kills before you can join their fleets.

As far as mini games with hacking I’m not really sure what that would be. But, why not have the ship versus ship pvp combat be the minigame!? Small scale pvp is one thing CCP did extraordinarily well. Small scale pvp is engaging challenging requires strategy tactics and thinking on your feet. Yet CCP for some reason never yet properly implemented a mechanic to bring this about. Why not have fw plexing be that mechanic?

Since the plexes are ship size restricted I really don’t see too much of an issue with large groups joining fw. It’s not like most blobs will send their tackle into a minor plex. Fleet tackle typically aren’t set up well for small scale pvp. I can sit in very crowded systems alone in a plex for hours sometimes. I often think they are like safe spots. Hell I think eve would be a better place if there were 30 frigates barging into a minor plex on me – even if I wouldn’t stay to fight 30 v 1.

Really as long as there are enough plexes spawning throughout all 8 regions of fw then its very unlikely anyone will be able to blob their way to a win. If I am wrong and huge numbers start showing up in faction war, ccp could open up the pirate factions and set up their alliances such that they could help even things out. That problem is allot better than always going into a plex and sitting there for hours with no one else but the npcs.





Hirana Yoshida wrote:

- Missions remain as they are with hopefully an increase in difficulty. Getting paid 40-50M for five minutes work just shouldn't exist in Eve regardless of travel time or "risk".
,,,,.


At least for amarr this is an exaggeration. Many people who complain about missions are those who already farmed them like crazy have tons of isk and don’t want to run them anymore. But they don’t want other people to get the isk they got. I don’t think it applies to you but it’s just an observation I have made.

FW missions aren’t all that great and I think they are fairly competitive with other sources of income.

Yes all the factions should be evened out and the rats should all have painters so they can’t be soloed in a sb. I think the amarr missions are pretty balanced.

The problem is not that fw pays so well the problem is that it pays decent but there are very few opportunities to blow up that isk in a fun way. That’s why everyone is flying these crazy expensive ships. If we had constant quality small scale pvp in plexes instead of just ganks on gates people would actually be using that isk to replace lost ships.

But whatever I think CCP actually designed a nice mission mechanic for low sec, when they did the fw missions. But if everyone apparently hates them I guess they can change them. The amount of lp you get after the agent changes is pretty crazy.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#43 - 2011-10-10 19:13:34 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
They are welcome to come visit or even put down roots in the FW areas, but the problem with them joining up (for me at least) is that if they have all the benefits that null provide plus access to stupidly lucrative FW missions and the greatest wardec of all time .. there is no downside whatsoever which is contrary to Eve philosophy.


Yeah, there's gotta be some solution to balancing this out. I agree with those in this thread that have brought up the issue of holding nullsec space vs farming FW missions. My motivation in bringing up Alliance participation in the discussion stems from alliances like CVA and UK that logically should have a role to play in the Faction Wars, but I agree that double dipping in lucrative sources of income isn't balanced or fair. I think forcing Alliances to choose between fighting for a faction, or holding space of their own, is a fair assumption. What would really reinforce this is the ability for say, the Amarr militia to push Amarr space into providence or similar. I think alliances that want the fun of fighting for a faction should be able to do so, as long as they can really push some territory boundaries around. As for the blob issue, I think thats been covered. Nullsec blobs come hit us anyways, fix the plexing /mission mechanics and you can lock out most of them from interfering with the small gang atmosphere.

The Faction Warfare missions, in my opinion, should remain lucrative. I dont have a problem with faction war pilots flying shiny stuff, in my opinion its only fitting that the militias be flying fleet issue ships, one of the great by-products of the recent agent changes.

The missions should remain lucrative (or else no one will run them), but I also agree with Cearain that the challenge needs to be stepped up. The AI is pitiful, and with all the other AI changes in the game, there seems to be some simple tweaking to the mission system to encourage GROUP tackling of missions, not solo work.

Full disclaimer - I am a total stealth bomber mission whore. Thats right, I said it. I'm not really giving anything away, the amarr know me and have blown up dozens of my bombers during moments of distraction or complacency. Now, I am not the richest player in eve, I blow up most of the isk I make this way in PvP combat, so I don't see the income level as imbalanced. FW entry requirements should discourage non-pvp farmers, not simply nerfing the missions. We militia pilots NEED this income to support our fleet ships, if we aren't going to have nullsec resources readily available to us.

My reason for pointing out the bomber issue is that my reasons for running them in a bomber are solely because of the isk ratio. I can simply push more isk/hour out of running them in a bomber, than by running them in a group. My corp buddies have had success using missions to bait PvP engagements, by running them in cruiser gangs. They don't make quite as much isk. but they get a lot more fights (and more meaningful fights) this way. In my opinion, the best way out is to make the missions REQUIRE a small gang to obtain the most isk/hour from them. Make the rewards payout encourage gang work, and you'll restore Faction Warfare missions back to their original status.

There you have it - a mission bomber saying "go ahead, take away my ability to bomb all the missions". Just make us able to earn the same income / hour with a gang, and we'll be good.

Great discussion overall guys, keep it up!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#44 - 2011-10-10 20:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Hans I do the same thing as you. I do use the missions for isk. I can't do them solo in an sb I have to use a speed tanker and sb or a bc. But I yeah I spend the isk to make sure I have pvp ships ready and waiting.

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
The missions should remain lucrative (or else no one will run them), but I also agree with Cearain that the challenge needs to be stepped up. The AI is pitiful, and with all the other AI changes in the game, there seems to be some simple tweaking to the mission system to encourage GROUP tackling of missions, not solo work. ..



Why all the animosity toward solo players?

Faction war is a good fit for people who don't have the time to spend developing personal relationships in game and/or dealing with the null sec politics.

Are you just trying to drive solo players out of fw or out of eve as a whole?

I really don't understand.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#45 - 2011-10-10 20:12:55 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Hans I do the same thing as you. I do use the missions for isk. I can't do them solo in an sb I have to use a speed tanker and sb or a bc. But I yeah I spend the isk to make sure I have pvp ships ready and waiting.

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
The missions should remain lucrative (or else no one will run them), but I also agree with Cearain that the challenge needs to be stepped up. The AI is pitiful, and with all the other AI changes in the game, there seems to be some simple tweaking to the mission system to encourage GROUP tackling of missions, not solo work. ..



Why all the animosity toward solo players?

Faction war is a good fit for people who don't have the time to spend developing personal relationships in game and/or dealing with the null sec politics.

Are you just trying to drive solo players out of fw or out of eve as a whole?

I really don't understand.



No animosity at all. I enjoy solo missions sometimes, its a nice leisurely break for times that I'm feeling anti-social. I'm just saying that for the betterment of faction warfare in general, I think more engagements would be had in and around the missioning (which is how they were designed - with them being picked up and completed in lowsec, with plenty of distance in between) if the missions encouraged group play. Some simply AI tweaks could fix that. Maybe not to the point of making solo missioning impossible, but maybe a little less efficient than if you grabbed your buddies to help.

As it stands, if you want to make money in FW missions its mainly a solo endeavor. I'm just saying lets make it a win-win by making missions lucrative AND social.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Zverofaust
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2011-10-10 22:30:38 UTC
Alliances in FW are stupid. Not needed, will not fix nor change anything.

There's only one change needed and that is in reward. Reward for PVPing, reward for PVEing/plexing/sov.

First, LP reward for PVP needs to go up. A LOT. I should be able to make a decent living killing people, dependent perhaps on militia rank. Consider the PVP-oriented FW person a "mercenary" of sorts, a hired professional soldier. We need to make money some way, right? I should be able to sustain quite a bit of income from being a good PVPer (if I were).

Second, militia as a whole needs incentive to plex and capture systems. The first step would be to replace the Bunker with an actual Fortress-style station that can only be docked in by the owner of said station. Turning a system would involve sieging the station rather than some boring, static bunker. Give incredible deals for manufacturing and research and **** for members of the owning militia to promote industrialist members to use them as production and market bases. Give them station guns that will attack enemy militias and pirates. Essentially turn them into the lowsec equivalent of nullsec outposts (with guns). A safe-haven for members of each militia to live, base out of, form fleets and whatever.

Third, hire and/or assign a GM to oversee FW. Call him a "WarMaster" whatever I don't care. But task him with managing inter-militia crap since we can't, like investigating and booting spies and harassing wardecs and whatnot. His entire job would be to oversee FW, sit in all the Militia channels, and be a ******* GM.

Fourth, provide a way to more easily fix or at least neutralize standings gains/losses wrought via FW. For example I know people who left FW a year ago and still can't get into 1/2 of empire space because their standings are so ****** beyond repair. The aspect of a few months of fun ruining half the rest of the game for you forever isn't appealing at all. Provide a way for people leaving FW to get a "pardon", resetting their empire standings to 0.0 (whether positive or neutral before), and put a limit on this like a 6 month cooldown timer before being allowed to join another militia or militia corp. Also a requirement of having been in said militia for some number of months to get this "pardon" in the first place (otherwise people would just use it every once in awhile by hopping into militia for 24 hours then leaving). At the same time increase the rate at which killing your faction's enemies increases your own standings. I used to be in Minmatar militia before I joined Amarr, and that was almost 2 years ago -- to this day I still have negative Amarr Empire standings (-3 IIRC) even though my 24th IC standings are +10. I had to grind up a bunch of ****** Amarr Navy corp missions just to get my standings up to something acceptable to do the Angel arc. This is ****, I've literally killed and lost billions upon billions of ISk worth of **** for the Amarr Empire and they still pretty much hate me? Yeah no thanks.

Bomberlocks
Bombercorp
#47 - 2011-10-10 23:18:28 UTC
Nicely laid out post, Hans (The OP).

Some points:
- Supercaps out of losec: I think this is a unnecessary, for the simple reason that supercaps in losec are a sign of stagnation in nullsec. When nullsec is improved, the Supers and Titans, aka PL, will have something to do again and will probably leave of their own accord.
- Plexes: The best quickfix to plexes possible within the time CCP has, is to simply change plex spawn times. Longterm, they need to be redone to make them more balanced, but that won't happen by christmas.
- Make sov mean something: Empire faction station guns firing on enemies when the system is occupied is an interesting idea, but I think that the Incursion style of idea, i.e. having *credible* enemy faction NPCs spawn on gates and stations when the system is occupied by the enemy militia is possibly better.
- The idea of increase LP payout to the occupying faction when a system is occupied is too easy to abuse (make an enemy FW alt, make free iskies by continuously popping your own insured cheap alts). A better idea is to increase insurance payouts to occupying faction losses, i.e. they get isk for losses, but not 100%.
- Allowing alliances into militia: why not.
Bomberlocks
Bombercorp
#48 - 2011-10-10 23:21:21 UTC
Zverofaust wrote:
...
Fourth, provide a way to more easily fix or at least neutralize standings gains/losses wrought via FW. For example I know people who left FW a year ago and still can't get into 1/2 of empire space because their standings are so ****** beyond repair. The aspect of a few months of fun ruining half the rest of the game for you forever isn't appealing at all. Provide a way for people leaving FW to get a "pardon", resetting their empire standings to 0.0 (whether positive or neutral before), and put a limit on this like a 6 month cooldown timer before being allowed to join another militia or militia corp. Also a requirement of having been in said militia for some number of months to get this "pardon" in the first place (otherwise people would just use it every once in awhile by hopping into militia for 24 hours then leaving). At the same time increase the rate at which killing your faction's enemies increases your own standings. I used to be in Minmatar militia before I joined Amarr, and that was almost 2 years ago -- to this day I still have negative Amarr Empire standings (-3 IIRC) even though my 24th IC standings are +10. I had to grind up a bunch of ****** Amarr Navy corp missions just to get my standings up to something acceptable to do the Angel arc. This is ****, I've literally killed and lost billions upon billions of ISk worth of **** for the Amarr Empire and they still pretty much hate me? Yeah no thanks.


I like this.
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#49 - 2011-10-11 06:28:06 UTC
Cearain wrote:
You don’t want FW to work for huge numbers from alliances but you also don’t want it to work for solo pilots either. Let me guess, you want it to work for the size groups your corp typically flies in and no one else. P...

I am not that nefarious my dear, which is why I specifically said "most" should disallow solo'ing. We can see now what happens when everything can be done alone, nothing is done in gangs since it is 'a waste of time' .. everything from missions to plexes.

Best case scenario for me would be:
- For some plexes to be multi-tiered like exploration complexes with multiple entry gates even. Surely if the various pirate factions build vast complexes to protect their assets, the navies can do the same.
- For all/majority of plexes to be spawned by player action, thus completely removing the DT shuffle, could be done by launching some h4xxor deep-space probe or something. Set a maximum possible to spawn in a constellation (separate off./def.) every 12 hours and add counters to militia interface to show "remaining"

As for missions being designed with gangs in mind .. actually a good idea to have a few of these, not all mind you but some. If they were made about as hard as 5/10 complexes with similar ISK and possible drop potential the roaming gangs would have a reason to make a stop once in a while, especially if a size restriction was added to mitigate farming ...

@Zvero: Ouch, your Amarr standing is still negative .. ungrateful bastards! Excellent idea to address that issue though.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#50 - 2011-10-11 07:44:27 UTC
Zverofaust wrote:


Third, hire and/or assign a GM to oversee FW. Call him a "WarMaster" whatever I don't care. But task him with managing inter-militia crap since we can't, like investigating and booting spies and harassing wardecs and whatnot. His entire job would be to oversee FW, sit in all the Militia channels, and be a ******* GM.

Fourth, provide a way to more easily fix or at least neutralize standings gains/losses wrought via FW. For example I know people who left FW a year ago and still can't get into 1/2 of empire space because their standings are so ****** beyond repair. The aspect of a few months of fun ruining half the rest of the game for you forever isn't appealing at all. Provide a way for people leaving FW to get a "pardon", resetting their empire standings to 0.0 (whether positive or neutral before), and put a limit on this like a 6 month cooldown timer before being allowed to join another militia or militia corp. Also a requirement of having been in said militia for some number of months to get this "pardon" in the first place (otherwise people would just use it every once in awhile by hopping into militia for 24 hours then leaving). At the same time increase the rate at which killing your faction's enemies increases your own standings. I used to be in Minmatar militia before I joined Amarr, and that was almost 2 years ago -- to this day I still have negative Amarr Empire standings (-3 IIRC) even though my 24th IC standings are +10. I had to grind up a bunch of ****** Amarr Navy corp missions just to get my standings up to something acceptable to do the Angel arc. This is ****, I've literally killed and lost billions upon billions of ISk worth of **** for the Amarr Empire and they still pretty much hate me? Yeah no thanks.



As for the warmaster - I dont see any reason to involve CCP. Having a game master mediate in Faction Warfare politics would be seen by most players in the game as meddling in its most extreme fashion - look at the controversy over the few times a CCP employee has used their position to influence in-game activity. Also, I think its a bit of an insult to the players themselves. I think there are certainly candidates within all the militias who have the leadership to take charge of the racial militia itself. Not all Faction Warfare pilots are bloodthirsty asshats, just the majority of them :) I think if we need a war leader, give us war leader mechanics. Admittedly, I don't know how Aliiances vote their leaders, but I'm sure there's an Alliance director with privileges akin to a corp CEO.

I think some simple but limited mechanics that could be used to allow players on all sides to vote in (and out!) an elected war master, which may even symbolically inspire more cooperation between militia corporations. I can only speak for the Minmatar, but we play out sadly too much like our lore stereotype - a bunch of bickering tribes with our own competitive drive, forfeiting greater accomplishment in favor of counting kills. But hell, counting kills is all we have now until CCP tweaks the mechanics to offer players something else to aim for. And at least we have good fun with our ongoing rivalry against each other for glory and trophy kills.

In general, I think the militia could be offered some Alliance-like structures in terms of organizations, including legitimizing elements like allowing them as a competitor in Alliance Tournaments (without having to forsake our corporations to do so) . The dividing factor, of course, being that Factions would not be able to hold or access nullsec sov (this has been more or less been unofficially agreed upon), but could still operate within their slice of lowsec space AS an alliance, in a general sense. Seperate but equal? But I can see how some might see this as unneccesary complication.

As to your statements on standings, Zvero, you are absolutely spot on. Standings mean a LOT to players - they are both a symbol of your activity, who you stand for, and they have profound gameplay implications. This is very very important for CCP developers to understand - standings are sacred to us as pilots. They are our egos, our ids, they define us, where we go, what we can do, and what we actually do.

Currently, enlisting and engaging in Faction Warfare permanently tanks one standings. Many of us have branded ourselves with one faction, and are willing to deal with the life-long consequences of that. But this is not something to be handed out lightly, there should be opportunity for players to join, experiment, and leave, without a permanent scar. Without an easy standings repair option, this is simply a huge barrier to players, and even new players could be potentially deterred if they are told "there is no going back"....many may put off FW till they figure the game out first - instead of using Faction Warfare as a friendly training ground for young PvP enthusiasts.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#51 - 2011-10-11 13:48:30 UTC
It seems we can agree on very little that is concrete.

We all claim to want plexing to involve quality small scale pvp. Not blobs or supercaps.

But we disagree on how to do that. Some say remove the npcs others say increase them and make them more powerful with the incursion AI. Some say lets make people use hacking skills. Others don't see why they would do that.

We all agree that post downtime shouldn't be the key time the occupancy war.

We all seem to want occupancy to have some effect but disagree on what effect.

We seem to disagree on alliances.

In the end I think the best we can hope for is to tell ccp - we want plexing to involve quality small scale pvp, we want it throughout the day not just at certain times and we want occupancy to mean "something." Make it happen.

I don't think this is anything they haven't hearing since 2008.

We seem to want to avoid having faction standings killed forever too. I guess I would agree with this but, then again if you were just in a war against a group of people I can see why it would take some time to gain their trust.

Zero: Doesn't running plexes for amarr boost your standings with them pretty fast?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Uppsy Daisy
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2011-10-11 16:31:37 UTC
Bengal Bob wrote:
Distribute plex spawns throughout the day.
Have the same NPC spawn for every factions plexes - easy fix and balances them out remove ECM from NPC, this is just silly.
Increase the number of different levels of plexes. Faction ships are overpowered against T1 ships, and the newer players no longer plex as they are insta popped by older players in Drams, Daredevils, Cynabals, Vigilants that also have a neutral booster in system.

eg:
T1 Frigate Minor plex
Minor plex as existing
T1 Cruiser Plex
Medium as existing
T1 Major plex
Major as existing

Make it a requirement that no NPC are on grid for the plex counter to continue, this will stop speed tankers.

I like the station gun idea, hopefully this will not include gate guns, although I suspect it might be hard to reprogram them as different guns. I wouldn't go for any further advantages, as this will only lead to people blobbing up. It still needs to be viable for solo pilots to go out and roam happily.

Cut the LP for missions, they pay out way too much and most militia members are now there for the missions only.
Increase LP for kills.

Fix faction standing loss, so Logi alts can also be in the militia without having to worry about standings

Do I need to say supercaps?

Add some militia bling to the LOL shop for the RP guys - maybe they can plex for Aurum?

Look at the distribution of space, the choke points between systems and access to high sec. Change as necessary to encourage free flowing movement.

The poor Amarr are bottled up in just a few systems bordering high sec and can't leave without a huge blob. Add some gates so they can experience low sec.

The Minmatar have to deal with whoever the campers of the week are in Amamake. Sadly, the use of neutral alts in all surrounding systems, means the gate campers run as soon as a fleet moves towards them - leaving them uncounterable.
Add more high sec gates so our noobs don't get popped. Couple in Auga, couple in Dal, couple in Arzad will almost match the Amarr access to high sec.

Whatever you decide to do, ask for feedback afterwards, and then continue to make improvements - not after another 18 months please.
You can expect a flood of people coming back to see if FW is fun again, don't fail to keep it moving forward again.

Also, fix FW and I will redo my portrait so you don't have to keep looking at my shaven testicle.


I have to just go back and quote this. Some SIMPLE changes that would make FW so much better.

Great post from a FW vet!
Vordak Kallager
Eurotrash
Blue Eyes and Exodia Toon Duelist Kingdom Duelers
#53 - 2011-10-20 08:14:37 UTC
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but...

PIRATE Faction Ships should count as TECH TWO, not TECH ONE, in regards to the Combat Plex Acceleration Gate Restrictions.

This is a serious damper for newer players as they really have no chance of competing with a Cynabal/Dramiel/Daredevil/Vigilant/Etc in these kinds of plexes when they are limited to tech one ships.

I feel this would significantly improve the quality of small scale plex fights without overhauling the entire plexing mechanic (which is a whole different issue that also needs to be looked at).

I can't imagine this being a long and costly fix to develop, either.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#54 - 2011-10-20 08:35:52 UTC
Hey guys

Great feedback in this thread. I'm taking a few notes and getting a few ideas.

One thing we might be able to do very easily is remove the faction NPCs, letting you freely travel in other factions space. How would you guys feel about that change? I've always found it a bit sad that we've isolated FW in low-sec when it could be done on a much larger scale.
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2011-10-20 08:50:58 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Hey guys
One thing we might be able to do very easily is remove the faction NPCs, letting you freely travel in other factions space. How would you guys feel about that change? I've always found it a bit sad that we've isolated FW in low-sec when it could be done on a much larger scale.


I'm not in favor of such a change. Currently Highsec is relativly safe when you are in fw. Removing faction police would also remove a safe haven that new fw pilots need when they don't want to pvp or need to replace some losses.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Endeavour Starfleet
#56 - 2011-10-20 08:51:23 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Hey guys

Great feedback in this thread. I'm taking a few notes and getting a few ideas.

One thing we might be able to do very easily is remove the faction NPCs, letting you freely travel in other factions space. How would you guys feel about that change? I've always found it a bit sad that we've isolated FW in low-sec when it could be done on a much larger scale.



I would be 100 percent FOR moving FW into ALL sec of space. Right now it is far too easy to fly the banner of your militia and actually not participate. Making the battle be over any sec system would make things huge REALLY quickly. (Tho obviously you need to keep the front line concept otherwise everyone will just make staight for jita battles and Tidi jita.)

In my opinion the basic militia corp needs to be removed. It needs to be an alliance for players to join only due to the HUGE number of spies. The noobs are just automatically going for the base corp and after being ignored just move on instead of actually getting to experience FW. Make it bring up the corp finder for those involved in that faction.

DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2011-10-20 08:54:11 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:


I would be 100 percent FOR moving FW into ALL sec of space. Right now it is far too easy to fly the banner of your militia and actually not participate. Making the battle be over any sec system would make things huge REALLY quickly. (Tho obviously you need to keep the front line concept otherwise everyone will just make staight for jita battles and Tidi jita.)
No, I don't want this.(See my post a few replies up.

In my opinion the basic militia corp needs to be removed. It needs to be an alliance for players to join only due to the HUGE number of spies. The noobs are just automatically going for the base corp and after being ignored just move on instead of actually getting to experience FW. Make it bring up the corp finder for those involved in that faction.
Yes, this is a great idea!


Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2011-10-20 09:05:14 UTC
Well I quit due to FW changes so I feel the need to jump in here.


1: Real reasons to take over systems. Think the eve online board game. Where having more systems gives you some kinda of tactial advantage. Wether that be a...
  • LP reward per day to active players, based on number of systems controlled.
  • Only letting the owners of each system dock in said systems space stations.
  • FW players get 0.0 levels of PI income if all systems connected to the said system are under that factions control. Would make taking out PI structures a small gang objective. Behind enemy lines.
  • fog of war within 1 system lifted for real time battlefield recon on war targets, and fleet sizes.
  • free repairs every 1 hour in controlled systems.

  • Again, like the eve online board game, you must control all surrounding systems to gain bonuses.

    2.Don't remove NPCs from high sec, make them killable with a sizable fleet. a fleet of say 10 cruisers can go in, and take out the local faction police, and it stays that way for a bit. maybe... 20 minutes. Gives the defenders a bonus as they can come to local faction police's assistance. In general Fw should be about PvP WITH npcs on your side. Wether that be NPC ships, or NPC stations. They should be rewarding our efforts.

    3. Events where NPCs can be found fighting each other.
    This would be fun becuase you would just wrap to a gate to find a minmatar cargo runner with escort under attack by ammar raiders. You can join in and defend the cargo vessal while it slowly tried to burn to the gate, or you can help shoot it down. No site to pop, no mission to activate. Just real time events in space, that you can skip on by, or take part in.

    Obviously you would be triggering the event to create by warping to the gate. But by making it random, and based on current FW sov, it would make the war feel alive!

    4.Real time tactical map.
    There should be a map, with built in fleet finder, that shows all enemy ships in or around your systems, and fleet size. And what they are doing. a fog of war you could say. Being able to see and defend your area will give reasons to fight over territory.

    5.Only border systems should be contestable.
    Bring the fight to the front lines. It should be 5 times easier to contest a system that is surrounded by both sides. And harder to contest systems that are deep within either sides space. You just have to add more gates so there is no super choke point. By bring the pvp into focus in 8-12 systems, People would be able to find a good large scale fight if they wanted one. again don't get rid of the size requirments for the FW sites. Let people form up frigates fleets, and give them frigate only sites to PvP in. which we allready have now, but by having less of them you might get people to fight each other.


    6.Behind enemy lines objectives
    Or with all this front line action, gives players a reason to dive deep into enemy space. Make PI targets juicy no reinforcement timers, there should be a downside to getting 0.0 income in low sec Instead of destroying a PI structure you would just shut it down for 24-48 hours maybe?. Especially with the "real time" recon map.

    Other targets could be included in each system. Like radar sites, that if taken out, disrupt the real time recon map. creating systems that go back to needed scouts to see whats going on. This would let small fleets wreck havoc on enemy intell without having to get a fleet of 50 people.

    Also include other structures in fully controlled systems. The idea being the faction your fighting for is building them as you secure territory. I mean the factions should be doing something to reward our hard work, and also kinda just doing what they wanted in the 1st place. Make the player feel like they are really fighting for something. Right now you taker over a bunch of systems, and your faction doesn't really seem to give a ****. They don't expand, or build new bases. they just don't care. I'm not saying take away control from the players, I'm saying focus on the idea that if you leave FW to go play in 0.0, one advantage is you get to upgrade your own systems, while FW is a 0.0 lite, pvp training ground.


    I'm not saying all my idea are great, or feasible. but I feel, in general something to this extreme is what is needed, while working inside the current system we have.

    If you read this, i just want to say thank you.

    http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

    MotherMoon
    Tribal Liberation Force
    Minmatar Republic
    #59 - 2011-10-20 09:07:44 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
    more room.

    also by giving both sides huge advantages to intell, i feel spies won't be as bad... but I could be wrong. :P

    If anything have new players start in a fw corp. Just force pvp into people lives outside of 0.8 or lower. OK maybe that's a terrible terrible idea, but I would love that world :P

    if you want to be safe, go join a player corp. : )


    DeBingJos wrote:
    CCP Soundwave wrote:
    Hey guys
    One thing we might be able to do very easily is remove the faction NPCs, letting you freely travel in other factions space. How would you guys feel about that change? I've always found it a bit sad that we've isolated FW in low-sec when it could be done on a much larger scale.


    I'm not in favor of such a change. Currently Highsec is relativly safe when you are in fw. Removing faction police would also remove a safe haven that new fw pilots need when they don't want to pvp or need to replace some losses.



    I feel there just need to be enough positive benefits to being active in FW, that you wouldn't need too much time to replace losses. as long as your being active and fighting for your flag, you should be rewarded.

    edit:
    I remember the answer to this now from 3-4 years ago. The PVP IS the reward. yeah well, look how far that got you ccp.

    http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

    MotherMoon
    Tribal Liberation Force
    Minmatar Republic
    #60 - 2011-10-20 09:07:59 UTC
    ugh double post/

    http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg