EVE General Discussion

The silence from the Devs regarding the changes to Drone aggro is absolutely deafening.

Not one of the many threads about how much damage the AI change has done to drone users has been commented on at all.

It is not about adapting. I have seen many here say "ADAPT!". or that "Oh this has shown how many missioners CANNOT adapt."

No. It is easy to adapt. It is easy to get a missile boat like a CNR to replace a Rattlesnake or a Dominix.... or say "Guys I need help with a mission." in corp chat. It is not that people >cannot< adapt, but rather that they are unwilling to. On a game that emphases and promotes freedom of choice, versatility and "play your own way" kind of game-play... being FORCED to swap ships or start doing things the way CCP asks you to is just deplorable.

I have done all of the above and still am able to do missions just fine. Got a CNR the 2nd day after the expansion, when I noticed how CCP took a massive dump on all drone boats, and have been making ISK with missile ships.... My problem is not enjoying the game-play as I used to and being forced to dance on CCP's tune.

CCP took an AI that was created for Sleepers (which are 90% of the time done with fleets of people) and crammed it into missions that players have been accustomed to solo... all of this while stating in patch notes that "this has the role of >slightly< increasing mission difficulty". Wether if was for lack of time or just not giving a damn, CCP did not work at all at this and the result is a lot of people getting pissed off and quitting. I myself regret having extended my subscription just 2 days before the expansion, and will not give CCP any more cash after my 2 accounts expire. Also seen a lot of people following the same route. My corp alone lost billions in ship-worth since the expansion was released and we are just a handful of people.

The punishment drones receive in missions (at least 4s, since those are the ones I have done since Retribution was released, and I will not speak for other missions) is disgusting. A lot of people that do not use drone-boats are here spewing out non-sense about adapting. To them I say this: Take a lvl 4 mission, and while destroying ships, start overloading 1 turret/launcher at a time, until its blown up...then start with the next...and then the next..and the next. Eventually you will understand how a drone-boat user feels. It was enough that drones could be destroyed pre-Retribution by NPCs if you were not careful... but given that I do not see mission NPCs targeting and destroying people's launchers and turrets, I see no real reason why CCP made it so that drones will be targeted and destroyed with impunity within seconds of being released from the drone bay. (not including the exploit that one HAS to use to get any efficiency out of a drone-boat).
It is simple: a drone-boat without drones is like a missile boat without launchers.... so why this hate for drones? Oh..because CCP wanted to bring some more content for the masses to be pleased at a long patch-notes list, by implementing an AI that was designed for an entirely difference scenario.

Comparing a Rattle with a CNR:

Rattlesnake: Launcher DPS = 155; Drone DPS = 500-600ish (depending on drones)
CNR: Launcher DPS = 526 ; Drone DPS = 145
And all this with having 5.5M SP in drone skills, while having less than 3.5M SP in missile skills.

Even non-drone boats have to suffer from this, given that a CNR's torps or cruise missiles are a waste of ammo and time when hitting high-end NPC frigs that keep you scrambled and webbed, and given that medium drones already took a considerable amount of time to kill one of those 30k bounty frigs... with them being targeted and blown up it will be even harder. And really... one moment of your attention being missplaced and you lose a drone. Without using the exploit people have been pointing out and debating, you basicly spend more time taking them out and putting them in your drone bay, than you do with them in combat.

QUOTE FROM CCP DEV BLOG:

Q) Will the NPC's switch targets now?
A) Yes, yes they will.
(Fair enough. We were warned.)

Q) Will the NPC's choose a targets of the same size, so npc frigates will first target player frigs.
A) Yes, the NPC will try and pick targets matching their own size.
(Bullshit. Cases of Frigs speed-tanking 4s have been sprouting out all over the Eve-verse, while BS class ships were not even fired upon through the whole mission)

Q) Will NPC's kill my drones?
A) Yes, but they don't hate them nearly as much as sleepers. I ran 9 level 4 missions and lost 2 drones. It does mean you need to pay more attention though. We can adjust their hatred of drones though which is why we are asking for feedback when this hits a test server.
(I'm sorry, Mr Developer, but were you doing these missions in a drone-boat or another type of ship? To test drones use a drone-boat...just as to test missiles, a missile boat is recommended, no? And bullshit again, because feedback has been given and nothing changed.)

Q) Will NPCs do any new ewar?
A) No. Their actual weapons and effects will not be changing.
(Bullshit. New AI, although not using >different< E-war, had a substantial increase in the quantity of the E-war used, with 0 warning to players)

Q) Does this change things like spawns or range activation?
A) No. When the NPC decide to start hating you is still based on the individual mission.
(Bullshit. As with a lot of new missions, the new NPCs happen to "start hating you" the moment you warp in a room, while immediately letting their friends know, so that they can "hate" you as well.)



Keep the E-war buff on mission NPCs...keep them able of switching between player ships...but take out drones from their lists of targets to switch-to and it will be fine. Missions will still be harder, but without confining people's choices and preferences when playing the game.


Maybe CCP will listen... but most likely wont, so the only way I can affect them (even in a small way) is to stop paying for their product when they ruin it for me.

Let's put one of the "adapted guys" at point blank inside a 2500 DPS room with webbing towers (and neuting, why not?), with a cloud of elite frigates buzzing around.

Then watch the fireworks.

we was in a angel mission and saw something new here never mentioned. The first who warped in got full agro. Then the rats logged immedeatelly the 2nd who warped in. but what surprice!! they did not unlog the first! never i saw rats logging 2 players at the same time.

same we saw later. rats switched target agressed drone but did not unlog the ship. so it was not possible to know what rats are behind the drones and what rats behind the ship. they loged 2 at same time.

Yep, I'm totally loving how in the past week Dev tags and threads with a word "Drones" resolutely refuse to mix. And it's not like they are not on the forums, they're joking and horsing around in other threads. But anything with AI or drone to it? /ignore But hey, I'll give credit where credit is due - drone issue has been an elephant in the room for years, and CCP has done a fantastic job of completely ignoring it.

Funny, I did the same thing. Trained up to use a Domi fairly well and it was just, "Why am I bothering with this when I can put myself in a Raven that works so much better?" And that was long before Retribution. It's funny how between these last two expansions we've gotten, what, 9 new ships? Plus countless ship rebalancings. And not a single mention of drone improvements.

So, I trained up to use a CNR. Works much better. Of course, now I don't dare run any mission with warp scramming in it, because then I will die in under two minutes. But, to hell with me, since I like doing things solo. At least I can still make ridiculous ISK mining.

A game and game mechanics should provide at least a little bit fun. I have 9 million Skillpoints in Drones and now i have to deal not only with a crappy drone interface, but with crappy game mechanics as well. I am not amused. And the reason why? Because some dudes did afk missions? *deep sigh*

I'm wondering WTF all these people who are "Doing just fine." are doing, exactly.

When an entire room, including 10-20 frigates, insta-locks and targets your drones as soon as you deploy them, that drone dies. End of story.
So, if you're doing things where you're only facing 5 or 6 ships, of course you're going to be fine. That doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist, and no matter how many time you say "I'm doing fine." it doesn't change the fact of the situation.

With that said, as soon as this 'entire room agros at once' thing is fixed, the drone issue will be much more manageable and people will stop complaining about it. When that issue will be fixed remains to be seen, it's been 5 days with nary a word except "We recognize the bug and are aware of it. Will fix it sometime in the future."

Meanwhile anyone who actually enjoyed doing missions solo is SOL.

It would appear to me that the developers are the enemy, more and more.

We all remember from Monocle-gate how they really feel about the players-base. It is as if the developers do everything possible to keep new players from even being able to play the game.

Lot to think about.

Darkfall: Unholy Wars is next week. I think I will try that.

Who do you think is shouting down all the complainers? Lollerskates ALTS FTW