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PVE, Drones, The new AI and You

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#21 - 2012-12-05 00:13:08 UTC
Kagumichan wrote:
starbelt stacy wrote:
the idea is to force you to buy PLEX.... but i think you have got the idea now.

and if you could actually do level 4's to make enough money to afford a PLEX to be able to do level 4's that would be a great idea. Blink

He meant pay CCP money for plex, not buy plex with isk....

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-12-05 00:17:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Xearal wrote:
OR.. you could you know.. adapt..

Wh residents have been putting up with the sleeper AI for ages.. I've been daytripping in w-space myself once in a while, and I've found no trouble at all with my drones vs the sleeper Ai.. it just requires a little more thinking, instead of just.. warp in, get agro, release drones.. get snack, come back, go get coffee you forgot, come back again, have a nice sip, go to next room, repeat combat actions, get noctis alt, begin salvaging..

now it actually requires you to think a bit. As for serpentis lockdown.. I've found an afterburner and some close range firepower works wonders when you get sensor damped.

Tanking the assault at close range didn't end well on the test server for me. Decoy drone plan it is. As for thinking, Wait for red to appear, recall, relaunch actually counts as thinking now? Standards have really fallen.
ISD Cura Ursus
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#23 - 2012-12-05 00:34:12 UTC
Merged in duplicate thread re: drones and new AI.

ISD Cura Ursus

Lieutenant Commander

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Kagumichan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-12-05 00:45:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagumichan
Xearal wrote:
As for serpentis lockdown.. I've found an afterburner and some close range firepower works wonders when you get sensor damped.


Yup, 'cos charging at 10 megathrons that are sitting 60k away whilst in a battleship will totally not take 30 minutes and burn all your tank and cap.

If I remember, missions are meant to ease players into Eve's battle system and get them used to tougher and tougher situations through the different levels. Get used to modules and guns and different ship bonuses etc. to use in the 'real Eve' where you blow up people or do incursions, they also serve as a small isk flow for when you don't have anything else to do... like blowing up people or doing incursions (or mining).
So now, if your friends are offline and you're sitting in a station wondering what to do, you can't think, "Do I go and do a mission, go mining, or turn off the game?", because your only option is to go mining or turn off the game, unless you've got some awesomesauce faction ship that can run 90% resists and rep back 500hp every 4 seconds (which you'd need to do level 4's to afford in the first place unless you want to spend an entire year grinding level 3's in a Drake), or are truly willing to play the chance game with the AI hoping they'll switch between you and your drones all the time instead of focusing on you.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#25 - 2012-12-05 00:49:22 UTC
Xearal wrote:
OR.. you could you know.. adapt..


As in, buy Tengu and be insta-adapted to any possible niche in the game?

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Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-12-05 00:53:41 UTC
I was using drones today, a few times they got insta locked by they are disposable. Always have been, always will be. And it took dps off my ship. Honestly I could only see this change affecting those individuals who use drone boats. I feel bad for sentry users, but at least this is forcing people to be more active.

Something clever
Alara IonStorm
#27 - 2012-12-05 00:54:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Glad I got that Triple Rigor Navy Scorp w/ Painter a few months back. Could pop Elite Frigs before with the standard Cruise Missiles but now Precision does as much Dmg as Standard so that makes them go down in 3 shots Elite 1 normal. Now sure I lose some Hammerhead DPS against Battleship sometime but Furies w/ Rigors + Painter did full Dmg to Battleship and 2-3 Shot BC's and they just gave it an accuracy + Dmg buff.

Must suck to fly a ship reliant on drones to take out small ships.
HydroSan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-12-05 00:57:25 UTC
Gallente can't rat or do missions anymore. Who thought this was a good change?
Manes Avatarr
Superfast
#29 - 2012-12-05 01:33:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Manes Avatarr
HydroSan wrote:
Gallente can't rat or do missions anymore. Who thought this was a good change?

I have a bitter smile on my face, couse i had such talking in my corp, about NPC AI change long before Retri was deployed. Well, first though i have come to - Gallente will be in big trouble on L4s. And they are. Other faction solo missioning will be somewhat more difficult and it is. Its just obvious - ppl tend to have habits after many years missioning and no NPC changes.

My profits will be cut down but it will be more enjoyable. CCP thinks this way:

1. We will encourage ppl to team play in PVE and mission ops will become more popular.
2. We need to cut down easy money from L4s
3. Solo pilots will start new account and pay us more
4. Some ppl will whine about it, some will enjoy changes. Ppl will adapt, eventually.

And yes, again, Gallente L4s missioners are screwed up*. Almighty, pls, have mercy on them.



* Becouse every experienced L4s pilot knows that it was easy money, from particular assigments and NPC were just plain stupid. And with powerfull boat and reasonably skills one could bring riches back home in just one evening.
Now, at least for Gallenteans - all habits are useless, stable dps are gone etc.
What... Launch and retreat tactic for drones? Cmon.. Micromanagement will kill every missioner's nerve system.
Other factions: High calliber, long range weapons - bye bye from PVE.
Solution: Autocannons (and equivalents) , tracking computers... hurray. And just dont kiss elite frigs below 20km...

FRONTIER ADVENTURERS Corp. | To explore, build & fight! | recruitment topic
Kagumichan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-12-05 02:00:30 UTC
Manes Avatarr wrote:
Solution: Autocannons (and equivalents) , tracking computers... hurray. And just dont kiss elite frigs below 20km...


so your solution is to fly minmatar ships, just like everyone does in PvP.

Whilst we're at it why don't we just remove amarr, gallente and caldari from the game, since no one will use them for anything anymore. :P
Irya Boone
The Scope
#31 - 2012-12-05 02:02:18 UTC
once again ccp put it bad one drone boats and drones specialist that it... because they Love missile
We should ALL fly caldari just say It CCP don't be such hypocrits

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#32 - 2012-12-05 02:19:57 UTC
Pyre leFay wrote:
Did they give remaps when they made doomsdays single target?
Did they give remaps when they made supers fighter and bomber only?


Did they give remaps when they got rid of the Learning skill?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#33 - 2012-12-05 02:25:25 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Pyre leFay wrote:
Did they give remaps when they made doomsdays single target?
Did they give remaps when they made supers fighter and bomber only?

Did they give remaps when they got rid of the Learning skill?

Did they get rid of the drone skills? Or the heavy missile skills?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Agent Akari
Dragonfire Industries
#34 - 2012-12-05 02:25:50 UTC
Drones are very important in eve lore, where do you think baby rogue drones come from? :)
Haoibuni
Disasterpiece LTD
Pandemic Horde
#35 - 2012-12-05 03:02:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Haoibuni
Gallente guys who are a bit new and despairing at all their time spent skilling drones:

Take the plunge and move to null sec. You can do forsaken hubs. These hubs don't have any frigate rats and the cruisers / BSs don't target your sentries.

Your sentry domi will shine. You can make 35mill ticks (subject to tax) with good sentry drone skills and BS5 even with crappy T1 guns.

Probably 30mill with BS4.

Do 4 of them in a row, will take 1hr 15mins, and then go salvage the 4 on the trot. Just 4 warps required all in the same system and you get another 35-50mill in salvage / loot for an additional 20mins work

So that nets you about 150mill for 1hr 35mins ratting.

Domi fit doesn't need to be pimp neither (use ASB fit - they work even after nerf) as it's a tiny bit risky as it has to sit still.

Or sod the drones and do the above in a naga (but needs T2 guns and Void to pull in the best isk/hr).
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#36 - 2012-12-05 03:27:37 UTC
Although I used to do level 4's solo (Command ship), I stopped when CCP nerfed the loot drops. I recently figured I could solo two or even three level 3 missions in roughly the same time and with no risk.

I have noticed that the aggro range for drones in asteroid belts have become quite insane (100+ km and beyond) and their target painters seem to have unlimited range!!!

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it
farqar
farqar Corporation
#37 - 2012-12-05 03:28:45 UTC
Kagumichan wrote:
and pay a 9 million isk repair bill.



Buy a 500k hull and amor rep or 2 and sit out front of station for 10 mins repairing

Then rep modules in station ( cheaper than paste usually)

Less than 9 mil.
Erazar
D-Tox
#38 - 2012-12-05 03:38:06 UTC
so basically, CCP have made drones 99.9% useless for PVE/Mission Runners?

L4's are going to be even more boring & tedious if we fly BS's trying to take down frigs with cruise missiles.

Nice work CCP

/clap!

...ah well this gives me a good excuse to cancel my accounts for a while \o/
starbelt stacy
Project-Gonk
#39 - 2012-12-05 03:48:47 UTC
Xearal wrote:
OR.. you could you know.. adapt..

Wh residents have been putting up with the sleeper AI for ages.. I've been daytripping in w-space myself once in a while, and I've found no trouble at all with my drones vs the sleeper Ai.. it just requires a little more thinking, instead of just.. warp in, get agro, release drones.. get snack, come back, go get coffee you forgot, come back again, have a nice sip, go to next room, repeat combat actions, get noctis alt, begin salvaging..

now it actually requires you to think a bit. As for serpentis lockdown.. I've found an afterburner and some close range firepower works wonders when you get sensor damped.



some people like myself dont go afk during missions especially in my navy raven it hasnt that great a tank believe it or not, and i cant afford to lose my navy raven to not being at the game watching what is going on.
even beofre the change you couldnt just fling your drones out and let them eat up all the blob in the mission area they owuld usually just sit and orbit you without attacking .... so i guess thats your argument shot down in flames.


and stop comparing it to wormhole sleepers the rewards are nothing in comparism and level 4 mission runners shouldnt be gimped this badly.
take sme ages trying to get isk as it is from missions it isnt a pot of gold uberness as you may think it is...
fukier
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-12-05 03:57:30 UTC
Kagumichan wrote:
The drone tactic saved my Rokh earlier.

Doing The Assault, level 4, Serpentis... upon warping in the entire room aggroed immediately (that's about 30 frigates, 30 battlecruisers and 10 battleships), 6 sensor dampeners dropped my locking range down to 18k and then the dampers flew around me at 30k, whilst two frigs came in and warp scrambled me. The moment I let out the drones to blow up the scramblers everything, except the scrambling frigs, shot the drones and started popping them. That left me with two options:

1. Sit there and die
2. Drop all my drones and pray to the almighty God of pure luck that either my drones could take the scramble frigs off before they all blew up, or that the scrambling frigs would switch targets.

By pure luck, option 2 happened just as my hull was buckling, and my brave Warrior II's stayed behind and sacrificed themselves whilst I, now looking like a giant flaming fireball, went to go and pay a 9 million isk repair bill, having been completely unable to kill or even lock onto a target in that mission.

A friend earlier actually spent about 2 hours doing a mission in his tengu because for only about 30 seconds every 10 minutes he was able to get a lock because of all the jammers.

The new AI is very nice, it makes things more fun, but I don't think these mission were play-tested to make sure they were still doable solo before it was applied.



hi try a raven
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.