These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Jukebox Petition - Bring it back!

First post First post
Author
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
SCRUBS.
#181 - 2012-12-17 11:57:13 UTC
I liked it for listening to "Below the Asteroids", but it's on soundcloud, so who cares about the jukebox. really....

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#182 - 2012-12-17 13:19:42 UTC
The only thing I really missed now that the jukebox was removed, is that there is no button in the option menu to disable music. This was also the reason I noticed that the jukebox is gone. Most players already uses more then one active cient, so a active media player in the background should be fine it for all the guys who want the Jukebox back. They can also play radio streams and other music, and doing all of this allready fine and better then ccp would do it in the next half year.

Also when the jukebox would brought back who of you would use it on more then one running client?

If CCP wil optimize some accessories I would prefer if the optimize the browser f.e. or give the calculator the functions of a graphical scientific calculator. For all of these functions are also other better software tools available, but at least I think they would be used by every player.
Inepsa1987
#183 - 2012-12-17 13:29:14 UTC
Please do not develop the jukebox. I would much rather have features that the player-base actually uses.

Spaceship Pilot.

Colman Dietmar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#184 - 2012-12-17 13:39:35 UTC
androch wrote:
what these ignorant trolls that tell us to use media player and such seem to be too dumb to realize is that lately alt tabbing from eve has been causing crashes and socket errors repeatedly so messing with a playlist outside eve... not a viable option for some players

You don't have to alt-tab, use global hotkeys instead. I'm using a horribly outdated winamp and even that supports them.
DarkestHeart
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#185 - 2012-12-17 13:58:18 UTC  |  Edited by: DarkestHeart
CCP RealX wrote:
Hi,

I want to thank you all for taking time to give this matter you attention. We (meaning the CCP sound department) are monitoring this thread closely and take all opinions into consideration. I hope you don't think we made this decision lightly.

First, some back story.

As many of you know that used the jukebox it was quite buggy and we got a lot of negative feedback regarding its use, it didn't measure up to other media players, it didn't support this or that codec etc. The jukebox works as a plugin to our audio engine (Audio Kinetics WWise) and was based on a now deprecated Microsoft MP3 decoder that was used as an example on how to build plugins for the WWise engine.

As mentioned in the blog these were the biggest issues that factored into the removal the jukebox. We believe we made the right decision but that is for EVE's community to decide. If we however made the wrong decision and you decide that we will put the jukebox back into the game, it will happen at the cost of adding new game-play related features. And I ask you all to weigh that into your thoughts on the matter. The jukebox needs a lot of love, and if we will give it all the love that it needs it will take development time away from game-play related features. If you decide that there is more value for you in the jukebox than there is in new features we will shift our focus back to the jukebox.

Regards,

RealX


Thank you for the response, its very much appreciated, very much indeed.

What I'd like to do is instead of hammering on about wants and needs of players that have signed this thread, I'd like to get an open discussion about this and some constructive ideas. I'm worried about this game, quite a lot, and its falling user-base. I think its fair to say that no-one that has signed this thread wants features taken away, or development of new ideas halted due to this issue, but equally I feel that cutting out certain features in this game are contributing to the falling user-base.

Instead, I'd appreicate it if you took into consideration a couple of suggestions that I feel will answer the issues that signees' of this thread have raised, and somewhat satisfy people that are glad the JukeBox has gone.

There are two main concerns raised by people that have signed this thread, and those are:

1) People like choice, and EvE is about choice. They want to choose their music depending on what mood they are in, or what they are doing. This may be music that CCP have develped in-house, or by other sources via an imported playlist.

2) The new dynamic music system does not function as intended as a proper replacement to the jukebox. Progress for the sake of progress is hardly ever a good thing(Yes I did just quote Harry Potter). There are a number of technical problems with the new dynamic music system, of which mentioned in this thread are:

- The new music system changes track whenever the pilot jumps through a stargate. Hearing 1/3 of a song is quite annoying, but when your travelling at high speed you only hear 1/6-1/5 of a song, which is very irritating.

- When using multiple accounts you are forced to turn off, using the slider, music on each subsequent account you log in. For example, if I login with my main, the music players automatically. I then log in my alt, and have two songs playing, so have to disable the music on that account. Each subsequent alt I login plays no music, all good. The next day though I login and....no music. I am forced to open up the in-game menu and turn the sound on, then login an alt, and turn it off again. Annoying at most.

- There have been instances where music does not play at all, despite having the slider set to max. This is not resolved until you restart the client entirely.

- There is no music in null sec, only sound effects that are placed on the same channel as music. For players that enjoy EvE music, and there are a few believe me, thats dissapointing. Personally, I've had to turn it off my accounts when in null sec because you can only hear the same sound effects over and over again when you undock/jump before it gets annoying.

So those are the reported issues. I'd like to offer the following solutions to these issues, which will help (I'd like to think) in satisfying players:

- Introduce a limited functionality player. I dont mean the full-blown playlist enabled jukebox, just a simple GUI to play/pause/forward/backward music. If it doesnt take up to many resources then the abiltiy to visually select songs would also be a good function - but being mindful of CCP's resources, we cannot be too unreasonable. I would suggest that when the 'jukebox' plays, the dynamic music system is disabled, and vice versa.

I would like to add that by implementing the above players that want the choice will have it, whilst players that cannot alt-tab at the moment will also be so (to an extent) satisfied as they will not need to alt-tab.

- Disable the new music system changing track whenever you jump. This may conflict with situational song selection (like jumping through from high to low sec), but as a temporary fix it would be fine. I would suggest that in circumstances like above, the next track instead of being cut to directly, is simply queued for playing.

- Implementing the GUI above would also aid in releaving the annoyance at having to go into the in-game settings a lot. If not possible, it would be worth implementing a stop/start music option so players do not have to go into the in-game settings.

- For null sec, songs should be playing. I would even be happy to offer to select songs for null sec, with confirmation that my choices are wise from players of course. Perhaps a player chosen aspect? Would be good for morale thats for certain.
Jayden Demonia
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2012-12-17 14:09:44 UTC
+1 I agree I am thinking about dropping my subs from EVE because of this );
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#187 - 2012-12-17 15:47:52 UTC
As a Mac player all I can say is *@^# NO!

All this crying to bring that awful thing back would be amusing except I'm almost afraid you'd convince CCP to do it. Mac players didn't have a working jukebox for years. I didn't even know that the songs in Eve had endings until early this year when they finally got the jukebox to play most of them completely. We never could import our own music without crashing the game and now I hear all the cries to waste developer time on a feature that won't work on our computers anyway so a few people won't have to deal with a few minor audio quirks or use a media player. I say rubbish to that!
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#188 - 2012-12-17 15:51:07 UTC
update the browser to allow a subset of html5 and you don't have to tab around to stream music.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

mkint
#189 - 2012-12-17 16:08:18 UTC
*ding dong the box is dead*
*the box is dead*
*the stupid box*
*ding dong the stupid box is dead!*

Let's think about this... folks could either use an in-game jukebox that isn't really maintained at all, or they could use a 3rd party jukebox that is maintained full time by a full team that has thousands of plugins and skins. Hmm... tough decision. I'm glad the box is dead because now there are fewer stupid people asking "durh, how i ad musik to da boks?!" and now we just get stupid people asking "durh, wer duh boks go!?" Let it die, and let's dance on it's grave!

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#190 - 2012-12-17 16:21:48 UTC
DarkestHeart wrote:
I'm worried about this game, quite a lot, and its falling user-base.

Stopped reading here. Where do you get the idea that the user base is falling?
DarkestHeart
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#191 - 2012-12-17 16:23:34 UTC
Aptenodytes wrote:
DarkestHeart wrote:
I'm worried about this game, quite a lot, and its falling user-base.

Stopped reading here. Where do you get the idea that the user base is falling?


Are you serious? When was the last time the amout of people online hit 60k?
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#192 - 2012-12-17 16:30:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Aptenodytes
Online players != active subscribers
I simply asked for the source of your information.
Scaramanga Erquilenne
#193 - 2012-12-17 16:49:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Scaramanga Erquilenne
Two clear divides here

1 Those who never used the jukebox and just want to come on the thread and insult the people who do want it back .Lots of childish comments referring to them as Stupid are dumb etc.

2 People who used the jukebox and enjoyed it and miss it and those who offer some constructive alternatives are ideas

Good of the dev to give some input in to the thread but to suggest that other players will lose out other features if the jukebox is returned is just fueling the fire.I payed my subs for a game that had a in game juke box now it gone and now i am told if I want it back other players will lose out on other things?

All we want is a option to edit the play list like we had before .I dont understand the devs point of view at all .They can manage the music in its current state . But if we want to ability to edit are play lists that will consume so much resources that other developments will have to be binned.The music is still there we just cant delete and sort are own play order out now.

Stands to reason that any one who does not listen to music in game is going to get annoyed by these comments from the dev the feeling these are losing out on other developments because other people want features back that they themselves never used.

As a player who plays in full screen with one account alt&tab are window mode are not a road i want to go down.But as other have suggested some changes to UI to make it easier to control external players might be a good way around it if we really are to lose this feature.
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist 
DarkestHeart
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#194 - 2012-12-17 16:49:33 UTC
Aptenodytes wrote:
Online players != active subscribers
I simply asked for the source of your information.


User-base does not equal active subs, that I agree.

But do you really think that whilst the number of 'players' online has gone down, thats simply because the same number of people are using less alts?

No, overall less people online = less people paying for subscription.

If you want rough statistics then go here.
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#195 - 2012-12-17 16:55:48 UTC
DarkestHeart wrote:
If you want rough statistics then go here.

The 1 week, 1 month, 3 month, 6 month and 1 year graphs all look like they're going up to me. The all-time graph is a bit hard to read without any scale on the bottom but the peak would be several years ago at least - so I don't think jukebox removal has anything to do with that.
DarkestHeart
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#196 - 2012-12-17 17:05:22 UTC
Aptenodytes wrote:
DarkestHeart wrote:
If you want rough statistics then go here.

The 1 week, 1 month, 3 month, 6 month and 1 year graphs all look like they're going up to me. The all-time graph is a bit hard to read without any scale on the bottom but the peak would be several years ago at least - so I don't think jukebox removal has anything to do with that.


Can you please re-read posts made by myself and other signee's on this thread, you will find no reference to the jukebox being the reason that subs are falling.

You will however see people are voicing concern that the removal of the jukebox may, in the long-term, contribute to the decline of subs.

The reason? People, over time, will get fed up that good features are being removed. If someone is cheesed off that X feature has been removed, then find out next patch that Y feature has been removed, and the resolution of Y being removed, feature Z, doesnt work, people may be disgruntled enough to leave.

The crux of the issue is this - if you annoy and dissapoint people enough in a 'luxury' product such as EvE online, then how long do you expect them to keep paying for the product?

If the quality drops (and I'm not saying that the quality has dropped in this game, its just an example) then people will stop paying.

In any case, there is no way that there will be enough data yet to tell if the jukebox has had any effect on if people are quiting over this issue. What we can be sure of is that its causing enough of an issue to cause people that have remained silent throughout their EvE time to speak out, and create sides on the forum, argument on the forum and even arguments on Twitter.

Not to mention 'Help' channel gets questions asked about the jukebox a lot of the time.
Recoil IV
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#197 - 2012-12-17 19:06:23 UTC
bring it back! + 1 supporter of this great cause
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#198 - 2012-12-17 19:28:48 UTC
DarkestHeart wrote:
You will however see people are voicing concern that the removal of the jukebox may, in the long-term, contribute to the decline of subs.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/12/17/in-an-age-of-f2p-eve-online-sets-records/
Crimeo Khamsi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#199 - 2012-12-17 19:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimeo Khamsi
DarkestHeart wrote:
I'm worried about this game, quite a lot, and its falling user-base.

Well it's your lucky day! You can stop worrying, because the user base is not falling at all: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

At worst, the user base has fallen like... less than 5% on average in the last several years. And even if so, it has stabilized recently.

Quote:
I feel that cutting out certain features in this game are contributing to the falling user-base.

Nothing is contributing to the falling user base, because the user base is not falling.


The remainder of your post is just a longer, ramblier version of "CCP should re-invent windows media player for no particular reason." No. All of the things you mentioned as problems can be solved by WMP. Including hearing full length eve songs that dont stop at stargates (the download site for the eve songs has been linked in this thread)

The only thing that is really a reasonable request IMO is to just have a finer grained volume mixer in Eve, so that people can more selectively turn off what they dont like, so that they can replace it with their own stuff on third party media players (but still get useful sound effects, etc.)


Edit: sniped by guy above me. Number of online characters may have fallen a trivial amount (and then leveled off), but it looks like actual money subscriptions that matter to CCP's bottom line (two different things) are at record highs indeed. Even less reason to worry, yay..

_________________

You know, in fact, if we are going to jump to any sort of rash conclusions about correlation and causality at all, the most logical one would be that the removal of the jukebox improved the game, not the other way around...
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#200 - 2012-12-17 19:54:55 UTC
Shokre O'Corwi wrote:
CCP, can you add a Word like Office application while you're at it? Also, some CD/DVD burning software would be good, I don't wanna use an external application.

/sarcasm mode off

Music players freely available on the internet are way better at playing music then EVE's player ever was (not to be rude or anything, just stating that specialized software does the job better). Time of developers is better spent coding and developing something that benefits the gameplay anyway.


/sarcasm mode on

If only every single other game did not come with their ability to play their own music scores.

Oh wait, they do.


Removing the Jukebox also had the nasty side effect as well: you can't run 4-5 clients without getting crazy with the concurrent music cacophony so you have to manually turn on and off the music every gaming session... and it won't persist so the next session you have to do it again!