Crime & Punishment

I'm completely fine with people being able to AFK cloak their bomber or black ops battleship in nullsec. It makes life interesting. What I don't understand is why people think it's ~so easy~ to disrupt highsec operations. It takes absolutely massive coordination among a pretty large group to make a dent in anyone that isn't too dumb or stubborn to move to an equally good system a few jumps over for a couple days.

Snipe.


edit:


Thanks for the explanation. I'm used to bumping freighters myself, and got as good as I am at it by bumping ice miners around in a mach. I never could hit the ones that would orbit though, so I just sort of satisfied myself by punting orcas into their gang of miners.
Funny, but ineffective.

The issue here is that NPC corps are broken, not that bumping needs more restrictions. I'd dearly love to see everyone booted out of the risk free NPC corp after 3 months, and from then on restricted to a faction warfare NPC corp. (Or some other iteration to stop people risk free NPC alt'ing)

The thing I've always liked about this terrible game is that the developers at least make the attempt of some sort of reality in physics. (Emphasis on some sort)

When I started playing EVE, you needed to align to dock. Total pain in the arse, but hey... incorporate it into your role playing experience if you have to. Mass just doesn't move itself instantly after all and think of those poor peons in traffic control.

CCP changed that back with I don't know what update, but left alignment and bumping alone in other circumstances. A good compromise that allowed people in station a certain element of "let's just look out the window and see", something you couldn't do till then. You looked at local, and if there were reds in system you sucked your gonads up behind your tonsils and rolled the dice.

I think any further attempt to nerf bumping would well... violate physics. Good pilots, or mediocre pilots with support can work their way out of it. There should never be a reason for a piloted vessel to get into that situation unless it's loitering deliberately.

Oh and if we're talking about bumping miners, there's no excuse at all.


For cryin' out loud, I want to see MORE realistic physical interaction, I mean, missiles weaponry flying straight through titans, stations or other ships to hit targets on the other side for instance...? That's just off.

The problem with this post is that you are generalizing an idea. We aren't saying we are improving the game by using an exploit (it's working as intended afterall) or using game mechanics in any way is improving the game... we are saying we are improving the game in regards to being told we are extortionists. Our communicados are what we are saying is improving the game.

The fact we took an idea, and formed it into a roleplayed facsimile of player interaction in fact improves the game. It extends the hand of friendship across language barriers and profession boundaries because it is in fact "friendly". It might seem aggressive... but this game as a whole is aggressive. We aren't ganking (although people do). We are bumping. A nudge. We aren't asking for a king's ransom.

Only a stipend. And in turn you are getting an avoidance of further bumps, what you would, as a miner, consider a transgression (because miners take offense).

The act of us bumping, for isk, is within the realms of Eve play. The "**** off" retorts miners come back with, unfortunately, are not. That generally escalates things.

However, your argument about hurting the bottom line is invalid and irelevant; not our business. We pay money to rent a spaceship and server time. Nothing else. We are told what we are allowed to do by our landlords, and are told what we are not allowed to do.

If anyone doesn't agree, they are encouraged to petition.


So pay me 10mil isk or risk bump. Or don't be in my system. Your choice.

Why not the person scanning down your ship? There is even a module that allows me to target you without you even knowing about it. It even says so in the description. And I can guess noone is stealth targetting you because they are just curious.

Mind the slippery slope.

It's listed as a counter bumping tactic, but just think if you were to try to bump someone doing it.... it's still possible to stop them.

Orbiting isn't an end all be all tactic, but it does help ward off would be bumpers that can't position or think they need to chase the miner around the rock.

I think the biggest part to all this, is to keep in mind although some will and can bump ore miners.. they generally don't. It's too much effort. As an extortionist who has used word of mouth to build a reputation might exact his fee easier and quicker, but to enforce it is much more difficult, because like the general assumption, afk miners are the easiest to bump. Not to mention even if you do bump out of range, you still get a portion of the ore you're mining since you don't have to wait for the cycle to end such as with ice.

Much easier to attack a tuskless elephant than it is a sprinting antelope and all that. But lions still do eat both.

The biggest issue with miners, is they want to afk mine in peace. They want to leave their computer for 50 minutes and come back to the game with an orebay filled. The reason I personally hate it (I don't care about personal problems, we all have them and deal with them) is because if I wanted to adopt that mentality, I'd park my exhumer up agaisnt some ice, hit my lasers, and go play dust for a match or 2, come back, empty orebay, and repeat.

When I ore mine, I might be partially afk (yes I'm a Code enforcer as well but meh, if I get bumped or don't pay attention it's MY fault and I accept it) as I'm watching netflix, or maybe typing to corp/alliance/whateverchannel and forget my lasers anyways. Again, my fault. Not CCPs.

So the only problem I could see with ice mining and anger issues, is the simple fact that I would be interrupted from my "badass routine" to effectively get isk in eve for playing dust on my PS3. And how dare anyone upset my "cheating".

I go to bed, wake up, and this suddenly became a good thread.

The simplest issue, just have the audacity to say it aloud.

Do it ****.

Ah, some more justification for a new "emergent play" exploit! I love it watching the social dynamics of of the Advantaged arguing to remain Advantaged and let the Disadvantaged pay! (Hmm, sounds very US republican.)

Historically CCP has inevitably corrected any exploit that significantly advantages or disadvantages an identifiable segment of gameplay or group of players. Especially if it begins to affect their Bottomline. (Measured in a manner only the Ghods of CCP are privy too, but I can guess.)

IMHO most miners are not whiners about bumping because they are lazy players who want to earn isk while afk for extended periods of time. They simply want to play as they have in a balanced gameplay environment.

Exploiters argue miners should pay a fee to the Exploiters to remain undisturbed in their lazy ways of being an inferior 'absentee" player. (Should players pay a tax to Exploiters as well for training skills while offline? Hmm. Interesting idea.)
Yes, miners could move on, but Exploiters can and will follow miners everywhere to any ice field or belt to collect their "fees".
IMHO Exploiters have underestimated the reaction of miner/players, most of whom in the real world would resent and rebel against protection rackets and street thugs/government/extortionates.
However, if the Exploiters are correct and a large number miners are lazy inferior players then a large number of player "dabblers "will find they are paying sub fees to CCP but can no longer enjoy playing the game as they liked in a balanced Hi Sec.
Why should they pay for unenjoyable experience of an excessive level of annoyance from clever exploiters?

IMHO those lazy player/miners will, (if Expoiters are right that they are dabblers and not wedded moment to moment to the keyboards of Eve), unsub in large numbers, significantly undercutting CCP income models. Or abandon mining all together, wrecking the game economy by reducuing the availability of resources to all players and making inital play of new players more difficult and less attractive. These inevitabilities will affect CCP bottomline. IMHO this will happen sooner than later and CCP knows this. Hence this dedicated thread and a time limit.

Player departures will hasten CCP action to adjust the game dynamics in some balanced manner. (Perhaps to do with armor/shield resists and ships mass.)

Case in point: recently CCP dealt with the miningship ganking problems because it began to affect their income.Forecast models and "enjoyment and recommendation " indices began to decline and would have continued to do so without an adjustment to return a segment of the game which was originally designed to be posssibly the most highly skilled ship bound pastoral activity in the HiSec arena of the game to something closer to its intended state. Game balance needed to be restored.

The balance needs adjustment again, IMHO.

I believe CCP fully realizes should this form of exploit continue the deleterious affects will multiply. More and more players, looking for easy scores will become involved in this exploit and fewer miners will mine or play EVE at all. An ever shrinking number of ingame miners and an ever growing group of exploiters will result in higher "fees" or repeating "fees" being charged to miners resulting in an ever diminishing pool of miners. This will ulitmately result in the complete disruption of the entire game economy as the suppliers of raw materials from which everything in the game is dependent upon dimninish more and more.
Unrestrained 'protection rackets" are nothing new in the gaming world or in r/l. And the results are equally predictable.

Miners are asking for another adjustment to continue to play as they have in the past, subject to reasonable protection from and vulnerability to suicide gankers and war decs. However, as designed NPC corps exist, in part, to shelter a segment and type of player from war decs.

IMHO CCP management wants to appeal to the broadest segment of player types: from super aggressive to super passive. Excessively passive players are less inclined to renew subscriptions and excessively aggessive players, if left unchecked, will unacceptably increase the number of more passive players who will depart the game or not get involved in EVE in the first place.

Let us hope whomever designs the course of CCP "rebalancing" will actually have extensive gameplay experience. Bumping is a necessary part of gameplay and should not be prohibited entirely IMHO, merely adjusted.

I, for one, still have several characters/miners unsubbed during the ganking fiasco. I'll wait a bit to decide if I will revive those characters.

Lets see if any miner/player in an expensive mining ship/frieghter can be Bountied and then ganked for a profit. Eh CCP?

If there were only high sec, I can understand the problem. However, players have choices. They can travel to null and make their own security. If they wish to stay in high sec, fixing bumping won't change anything about carebears being griefed. The bounty system will also help this, bumpers can put bounties on griefers heads.

If its not bumping, griefers will find something else to do. We saw this already when CCP gave into carebear tears with the last patch. Minning ships got a mega buff making them even harder to suicide gank. Carebears rejoiced.

Of course though, here we are again. Carebears in high sec are complaining about something. Before it was suicide ganking, now its bumping, assuming we get rid of bumping, what's next? Griefers won't stop griefing just because you buff high sec (CCP, please stop btw, its high reward with low risk already). Carebears will ALWAYS have something to cry about because grifers exist. That is a crucial element of what makes eve what it is. If CCP gives into these demands, there WILL be another problem in 6 months that carebears are crying about.

I believe that if CCP gives into these demands, like they did with the mining ship buff, they will only continue to listen to the cries of carebears. CCP has long said griefing is a part of this game. Why would we change that now?