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Why is CCP NERFING stealth bombers?
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Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-11-25 14:48:23 UTC
While CCP is buffing torps, it doesn't matter because of the new MicroJumpDrive. What is the point of bombing or solo bombing if a BS can just jump 100km away even when disrupted? This kills solo bombing and all kiting cruisers all together because of 1 module.

The MicroJumpDrive is not a bad module. It just will kill PvP by making it easier for Battleships to run away and take no damage should they get in trouble. Why is this module not affected by disrupts? Even a scaling effect, such as "disrupt won't stop you from warping but make it 8x longer to use the MJD" would be helpful.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-11-25 14:53:54 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
While CCP is buffing torps, it doesn't matter because of the new MicroJumpDrive. What is the point of bombing or solo bombing if a BS can just jump 100km away even when disrupted? This kills solo bombing and all kiting cruisers all together because of 1 module.

The MicroJumpDrive is not a bad module. It just will kill PvP by making it easier for Battleships to run away and take no damage should they get in trouble. Why is this module not affected by disrupts? Even a scaling effect, such as "disrupt won't stop you from warping but make it 8x longer to use the MJD" would be helpful.


Yeah, I'm sure solo ratting BS will sacrifice some tank for a module they'll never need to use if they're paying attention to local.

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Romvex
TURN LEFT
#3 - 2012-11-25 14:59:42 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
While CCP is buffing torps, it doesn't matter because of the new MicroJumpDrive. What is the point of bombing or solo bombing if a BS can just jump 100km away even when disrupted? This kills solo bombing and all kiting cruisers all together because of 1 module.

The MicroJumpDrive is not a bad module. It just will kill PvP by making it easier for Battleships to run away and take no damage should they get in trouble. Why is this module not affected by disrupts? Even a scaling effect, such as "disrupt won't stop you from warping but make it 8x longer to use the MJD" would be helpful.


Yeah, I'm sure solo ratting BS will sacrifice some tank for a module they'll never need to use if they're paying attention to local.

pretty much this. If you are ratting in null or low and a bomber is on grid with you, you're doing it wrong.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#4 - 2012-11-25 15:01:53 UTC
As for ruining bombing runs, it has an 11 second cycle time, bombs fly for 10.

Still going to get hit.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-11-25 15:05:56 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
As for ruining bombing runs, it has an 11 second cycle time, bombs fly for 10.

Still going to get hit.


I wonder where people get all this wrong information?

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Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-11-25 15:15:10 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
While CCP is buffing torps, it doesn't matter because of the new MicroJumpDrive. What is the point of bombing or solo bombing if a BS can just jump 100km away even when disrupted? This kills solo bombing and all kiting cruisers all together because of 1 module.

The MicroJumpDrive is not a bad module. It just will kill PvP by making it easier for Battleships to run away and take no damage should they get in trouble. Why is this module not affected by disrupts? Even a scaling effect, such as "disrupt won't stop you from warping but make it 8x longer to use the MJD" would be helpful.



Offer BS pilots tools to be other thing than a simple victim or a lolish presence, is a very nice improvement. Tactics will change and I have very good news for you:

BOMBERS CAN FIT WARP SCRAMBLERS !! -and they can even cloak and get close enough to apply it directly. Of course you'll have to deal too with new rats AI who may actually web scramble/disrupt you too but I guess you forgot this little thing too.

While OGB is still available, and it's not ready to go away that fast because :effort:, new bombers generation WILL be deadly, dam deadly.
Please stop crying for peanut, it's silly and childish.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Oregin
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#7 - 2012-11-25 15:32:49 UTC
Even with the skills maxed, the spool up is 8 seconds. That gives a fleet 2 seconds to ensure that everyone hits the module.
I think that's fair.

In the past, BS gangs have been able to warp off when aligned if bombs start to fly and this simply means they're able to stay on grid. Any good BS fleet would not be sat stationary anyway.
Lex Alandar
Q Division Five
#8 - 2012-11-25 15:44:15 UTC
I agree it's slightly silly.

Currently, you need a perfect dictor pilot to execute the really good bombing runs (or some very specific situations)

If this module becomes standard fleet issue, Alphafleet (and other BS doctrines) cannot die to bomb runs on grid.


Oh you'll still die to the bombs if your FC or individual pilots make an error. But that is a huge change, relying on the error of the defender rather than the skill of the aggressor.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-11-25 15:49:23 UTC
Lex Alandar wrote:
I agree it's slightly silly.

Currently, you need a perfect dictor pilot to execute the really good bombing runs (or some very specific situations)

If this module becomes standard fleet issue, Alphafleet (and other BS doctrines) cannot die to bomb runs on grid.


Oh you'll still die to the bombs if your FC or individual pilots make an error. But that is a huge change, relying on the error of the defender rather than the skill of the aggressor.

This.
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
#10 - 2012-11-25 15:55:21 UTC
*Takes bombers off the list*

Other than loltackle frigs or dictors....What's that leave? like 4 or 5 ships you can actually use in fleet fights now?

Mine smart. Mine safe. Purchase your mining permit today...... www.minerbumping.com
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#11 - 2012-11-25 15:59:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Simple answer: they're not.

They're giving one hull type a module of iffy usefulness that spreads out any kind of fleet and leaves it dead in the water without any support.

BuckStrider wrote:
*Takes bombers off the list*

Other than loltackle frigs or dictors....What's that leave? like 4 or 5 ships you can actually use in fleet fights now?
Let's see…

interceptors, CovOps, Bombers, Dictors, A number of cruisers, Recons, HICs, Logis, maybe even the occasional HAC, T3s, Tier-2 and 3 (and maybe even 1) BCs, CSes, BSes, Carriers, Titans. So about 90 ships.
Mirima Thurander
#12 - 2012-11-25 16:09:18 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
While CCP is buffing torps, it doesn't matter because of the new MicroJumpDrive. What is the point of bombing or solo bombing if a BS can just jump 100km away even when disrupted? This kills solo bombing and all kiting cruisers all together because of 1 module.

The MicroJumpDrive is not a bad module. It just will kill PvP by making it easier for Battleships to run away and take no damage should they get in trouble. Why is this module not affected by disrupts? Even a scaling effect, such as "disrupt won't stop you from warping but make it 8x longer to use the MJD" would be helpful.


Yeah, I'm sure solo ratting BS will sacrifice some tank for a module they'll never need to use if they're paying attention to local.



Nurf local

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Lex Alandar
Q Division Five
#13 - 2012-11-25 16:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Lex Alandar
Tippia wrote:
Simple answer: they're not.

They're giving one hull type a module of iffy usefulness that spreads out any kind of fleet and leaves it dead in the water without any support.



I knew somebody was going to bring this up, despite, and probably because I omitted stating obviousness in my post.


Two words...


Logi Anchor.

No need for the fleet to be spread out simply because the BS move 100km in one direction.....unless you're terrible, or don't know what a logi anchor is.


...and if next you're going to suggest bombing the support, well...
Ra'Shyne Viper
Native Freshfood
#14 - 2012-11-25 16:35:16 UTC
By the time you notice a SB bombing, the bomb will already be 3-4 secs in space.

DUST 514 player

Ingame name: Vin Vicious
Gal'o Sengen
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-11-25 16:41:17 UTC
I think you're vastly underestimating the Buffs to Torps. Being affected by Guided Missile Precision means reducing their Explosion Velocity by 25%, plus the effect of Implants and Rigs, plus the unspecified buff that they're going to be getting alongside this. You can actually apply full damage to something smaller than a Capital without devoting 8 mids to it.

If anything it seems more like a Buff specific to solo bombing (because that's what you referred too) as you'll actually be able to rely on your primary weapons system to deal damage rather than all your eggs being in the Bomb basket.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2012-11-25 16:48:53 UTC
Stealth whine about OP bombers detected

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-11-25 16:53:39 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
While CCP is buffing torps, it doesn't matter because of the new MicroJumpDrive. What is the point of bombing or solo bombing if a BS can just jump 100km away even when disrupted? This kills solo bombing and all kiting cruisers all together because of 1 module.

The MicroJumpDrive is not a bad module. It just will kill PvP by making it easier for Battleships to run away and take no damage should they get in trouble. Why is this module not affected by disrupts? Even a scaling effect, such as "disrupt won't stop you from warping but make it 8x longer to use the MJD" would be helpful.


No one is going to use the MicroJumpDrive. It's going to be the most useless module in eve next to that crappy armor hardener they added. Any FC wanting to do what the microjumpdrive does would just use an interceptor and warp to 50. It would take less time and effort and be more accurate in putting him where he wants to go.

I mean look, putting in that thing means you either have to sacrifice some damage, tank, or short range mobility, all of which are far more important than a 100km jump that will just make the enemy fleet do a quick covops bounce. If even that.

Honestly to me that module is just proof that CCP's fleet combat trials last year were 'too little too late', because no one there knows what the hell they are doing when introducing stuff like this.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#18 - 2012-11-25 17:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Lex Alandar wrote:
Two words...

Logi Anchor.
…neither of which mean “everyone is pointing in the same direction” (quite the opposite in fact) or “wow, my logi suddenly has 150% more range”.

So no, the fleet will spread out in a nice little expanded sphere and quite likely be out of range of the support ships. Oh, and unless they were at point-blank range with the enemy, they're also quite likely to have jumped to something that's suitable for an on-grid warp for the opposing force.

If not — if the fleet is so co-ordinated that everyone is pointing in the exact same direction at all times and that the logi is always ~50km ahead of the main group so you only leap-frog it with that MJD — the bombers have a very obvious and very easily predicted spot to carpet-bomb…
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#19 - 2012-11-25 18:31:21 UTC
Won't keep me from whoring killmails in my manti :)

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
YoYo NickyYo
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-11-25 18:34:23 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
While CCP is buffing torps, it doesn't matter because of the new MicroJumpDrive. What is the point of bombing or solo bombing if a BS can just jump 100km away even when disrupted? This kills solo bombing and all kiting cruisers all together because of 1 module.

The MicroJumpDrive is not a bad module. It just will kill PvP by making it easier for Battleships to run away and take no damage should they get in trouble. Why is this module not affected by disrupts? Even a scaling effect, such as "disrupt won't stop you from warping but make it 8x longer to use the MJD" would be helpful.


No one is going to use the MicroJumpDrive. It's going to be the most useless module in eve next to that crappy armor hardener they added. Any FC wanting to do what the microjumpdrive does would just use an interceptor and warp to 50. It would take less time and effort and be more accurate in putting him where he wants to go.

I mean look, putting in that thing means you either have to sacrifice some damage, tank, or short range mobility, all of which are far more important than a 100km jump that will just make the enemy fleet do a quick covops bounce. If even that.

Honestly to me that module is just proof that CCP's fleet combat trials last year were 'too little too late', because no one there knows what the hell they are doing when introducing stuff like this.



This is a first. I actually agree with something a Goon posted. I must now go commit seppuku. What?


I am not, nor will I ever be...Nicky Yo.... The question you should ask is.....When will they release the NICKY!
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