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Pulling the Plug on WiS

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Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#941 - 2013-01-18 12:53:11 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:

So? Did people stop talking at all in the forums after the Incarna release? Were they abduced by Sansha, and angry anti-WiS zombies placed in their stead?


No they didn't. And for a long time objection and praise for Avatar content have been roughly 50/50. Times change though, and now with the greed is good and $80 manacle massacre a distant memory, as far as I can tell, there is a strong majority in favour of Avatar based content. Most of the objections you hear now are from people trying to make sure that if it does happen that it wont be just dressing up dolls and emoting to each other with no actual content linking it to the Eve universe. Which is where CCPs ideas for Avatar based wreckage exploration comes in. I don't think anyone really objects to that, because it's a fantastic idea. Even the most hardcore of anti-Avatar content posters can't find a good reason to say no to that.

I do feel as though there is something we should be doing to grab CCPs attention. "I'll get to it later" is something we've been hearing from CCP since 2006, and frankly, if we keep letting them say it, we will never get the content they have very close to promised us. The popularity of the issue must be obvious to CCP, they can't be that ignorant, so now we have to show that this majority is willing to do something about it. Something needs to happen.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#942 - 2013-01-18 13:25:49 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:

So? Did people stop talking at all in the forums after the Incarna release? Were they abduced by Sansha, and angry anti-WiS zombies placed in their stead?


No they didn't. And for a long time objection and praise for Avatar content have been roughly 50/50. Times change though, and now with the greed is good and $80 manacle massacre a distant memory, as far as I can tell, there is a strong majority in favour of Avatar based content. Most of the objections you hear now are from people trying to make sure that if it does happen that it wont be just dressing up dolls and emoting to each other with no actual content linking it to the Eve universe. Which is where CCPs ideas for Avatar based wreckage exploration comes in. I don't think anyone really objects to that, because it's a fantastic idea. Even the most hardcore of anti-Avatar content posters can't find a good reason to say no to that.

I do feel as though there is something we should be doing to grab CCPs attention. "I'll get to it later" is something we've been hearing from CCP since 2006, and frankly, if we keep letting them say it, we will never get the content they have very close to promised us. The popularity of the issue must be obvious to CCP, they can't be that ignorant, so now we have to show that this majority is willing to do something about it. Something needs to happen.


Good post. I agree with almost everything.

As I've said before, CCP has got two, maybe three years to come up with something really new in their game or competition will go zooming past them like an interceptor racing a hulk.
Mackenzie Hawkwood
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#943 - 2013-01-18 13:50:15 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:

So? Did people stop talking at all in the forums after the Incarna release? Were they abduced by Sansha, and angry anti-WiS zombies placed in their stead?


No they didn't. And for a long time objection and praise for Avatar content have been roughly 50/50. Times change though, and now with the greed is good and $80 manacle massacre a distant memory, as far as I can tell, there is a strong majority in favour of Avatar based content. Most of the objections you hear now are from people trying to make sure that if it does happen that it wont be just dressing up dolls and emoting to each other with no actual content linking it to the Eve universe. Which is where CCPs ideas for Avatar based wreckage exploration comes in. I don't think anyone really objects to that, because it's a fantastic idea. Even the most hardcore of anti-Avatar content posters can't find a good reason to say no to that.

I do feel as though there is something we should be doing to grab CCPs attention. "I'll get to it later" is something we've been hearing from CCP since 2006, and frankly, if we keep letting them say it, we will never get the content they have very close to promised us. The popularity of the issue must be obvious to CCP, they can't be that ignorant, so now we have to show that this majority is willing to do something about it. Something needs to happen.


I feel I fall into the bring it on if it can be a meaningful addition to the game, the suggestion of Corp/Alliance Boardrooms/War rooms and the exploration come under meaningful. Bars don't in my opinion. There have been numerous posts in this thread asking for these, so people can run their bar and make isk from the house take of the gambling mini games and black market trade. How much do you expect to make with the other 1000+ bars jammed into Jita 4-4 all expecting to do the same thing?

I haven't fully read the latest CSM minutes, but it seems that if Twostep's 'I am a small portion of the community" POS revamp thread can get 100+ pages in 48hrs compared to this thread, I could possibly draw the conclusion that a wider portion of the forum denizens are more in favour of resources being put into a POS revamp than into WIS.

Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that. - Kina Ayami
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#944 - 2013-01-18 17:00:16 UTC
Mackenzie Hawkwood wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:

So? Did people stop talking at all in the forums after the Incarna release? Were they abduced by Sansha, and angry anti-WiS zombies placed in their stead?


No they didn't. And for a long time objection and praise for Avatar content have been roughly 50/50. Times change though, and now with the greed is good and $80 manacle massacre a distant memory, as far as I can tell, there is a strong majority in favour of Avatar based content. Most of the objections you hear now are from people trying to make sure that if it does happen that it wont be just dressing up dolls and emoting to each other with no actual content linking it to the Eve universe. Which is where CCPs ideas for Avatar based wreckage exploration comes in. I don't think anyone really objects to that, because it's a fantastic idea. Even the most hardcore of anti-Avatar content posters can't find a good reason to say no to that.

I do feel as though there is something we should be doing to grab CCPs attention. "I'll get to it later" is something we've been hearing from CCP since 2006, and frankly, if we keep letting them say it, we will never get the content they have very close to promised us. The popularity of the issue must be obvious to CCP, they can't be that ignorant, so now we have to show that this majority is willing to do something about it. Something needs to happen.


I feel I fall into the bring it on if it can be a meaningful addition to the game, the suggestion of Corp/Alliance Boardrooms/War rooms and the exploration come under meaningful. Bars don't in my opinion. There have been numerous posts in this thread asking for these, so people can run their bar and make isk from the house take of the gambling mini games and black market trade. How much do you expect to make with the other 1000+ bars jammed into Jita 4-4 all expecting to do the same thing?

I haven't fully read the latest CSM minutes, but it seems that if Twostep's 'I am a small portion of the community" POS revamp thread can get 100+ pages in 48hrs compared to this thread, I could possibly draw the conclusion that a wider portion of the forum denizens are more in favour of resources being put into a POS revamp than into WIS.

WIS had its big threads ,but i think people had enough of giving ideas and discuss this.
CCP does not participate into these discussions anymore ,so why discuss this if CCP does not even read this stuff.
The POS subject will probably have the same outcome.

R.S.I2014
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#945 - 2013-01-18 17:05:36 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
WIS had its big threads ,but i think people had enough of giving ideas and discuss this.
CCP does not participate into these discussions anymore ,so why discuss this if CCP does not even read this stuff.
The POS subject will probably have the same outcome.

The Devs have deigned to post in that threadnaught - I would suspect that they'll be watching for at least a while yet. Burnout and boredom shouldn't kick in for a few more days. Which means probably another fifteen or twenty pages-worth.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#946 - 2013-01-18 19:54:41 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
[quote=Natsett Amuinn]
So? Did people stop talking at all in the forums after the Incarna release? Were they abduced by Sansha, and angry anti-WiS zombies placed in their stead?


Then you should remember that people was upset for sevral reasons. Not against WiS but against CCP way to develop and deliver it.

The "monocle" rage, was not against the monocle itself, but was against the next store crazy prices: people wanted it but was upset cause the costs where in AUR/rl money and too senlsess expansive.

And this was only part of all the ****.


Later few forum trolls continued against WiS as a whole, but were just only few forum trolls; and they were convenient for CCP cause they gave them the excuse ("the players wants this, they only wants us to tweek ships stats") to disengage from EvE and focus resources on Dust, the visionless CSM members also was recruited to justify this.
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#947 - 2013-01-18 20:27:16 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Well Star Citizen it is, then.

When that lands in 2 years this game will become a ghost town, so everyone enjoy the population while you can.


When you combine Financial backing motivated by greed, CREATIVITY, and the motivation to enter into an almost dominated niche market to compete with one poorly organized/managed company, things get ugly.

CCP needs to get their heads out of their pants if you know what i mean.

Do it first, or DIAF
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#948 - 2013-01-18 21:57:50 UTC
silens vesica wrote:

The Devs have deigned to post in that threadnaught - I would suspect that they'll be watching for at least a while yet. Burnout and boredom shouldn't kick in for a few more days. Which means probably another fifteen or twenty pages-worth.


They posted in this one as well. Little good that has done us.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
#949 - 2013-01-18 22:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarvos Telesto
All i have to say to CCP.

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EvE isn't game, its style of living.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#950 - 2013-01-19 10:54:05 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
silens vesica wrote:

The Devs have deigned to post in that threadnaught - I would suspect that they'll be watching for at least a while yet. Burnout and boredom shouldn't kick in for a few more days. Which means probably another fifteen or twenty pages-worth.


They posted in this one as well. Little good that has done us.



So basically ,we want CCP come out and state what is possible at this moment and what is not.

Keep in mind we are running a game that is still using DX9.

What if CCP developed Carbon to run DX11 but are afraid to loose the people not being able to upgrade their rigs.
What will happen to Carbon if it was be able to use DX11,would carbon still fry our video cards?

R.S.I2014
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#951 - 2013-01-19 10:58:42 UTC
*Casually walks over, Reinserts WiS plug*

There Problem Solved Roll

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#952 - 2013-01-19 11:49:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Thomas Gore wrote:
As I've said before, CCP has got two, maybe three years to come up with something really new in their game or competition will go zooming past them like an interceptor racing a hulk.


We've been waiting for this competition to materialise for years now. "Eve is dying because Jumpgate Evolution is on the way". "Eve is dying because Black Prophecy is on the way". "Eve is dying because SWTOR is on the way". And today, it's "Eve is dying because Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous are on the way". It would be before my time, but I'm pretty sure I could dig back through the forum archives to 2003 and see "Eve is dying because (subsequently failed game project or vapourware) is on the way".

When Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous come out and completely fail to impact Eve (or spiral into development hell and are cancelled), I wonder what the next "Eve is dying because _____ " will be? The fact is, Eve still has no real competition, and nothing even in development, for the things that actually make Eve what it is. Nobody out there is working on another single-shard sandbox with a no-holds-barred approach to player interaction and a player-driven economy and industry, whether featuring spaceships, land vehicles, or humanoid avatars. Okay, Perpetuum, but that's essentially an Eve clone with mechs and is so virtually non-existent in terms of subbed players or media coverage I can only assume it must be some sort of front organisation for money launderers.

So where is this 'competition zooming past them' if they don't drop everything to spend another 18 months on Incarna 2.0 going to appear from?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#953 - 2013-01-19 12:06:10 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Thomas Gore wrote:
As I've said before, CCP has got two, maybe three years to come up with something really new in their game or competition will go zooming past them like an interceptor racing a hulk.


We've been waiting for this competition to materialise for years now. "Eve is dying because Jumpgate Evolution is on the way". "Eve is dying because Black Prophecy is on the way". "Eve is dying because SWTOR is on the way". And today, it's "Eve is dying because Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous are on the way". It would be before my time, but I'm pretty sure I could dig back through the forum archives to 2003 and see "Eve is dying because (subsequently failed game project or vapourware) is on the way".

When Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous come out and completely fail to impact Eve (or spiral into development hell and are cancelled), I wonder what the next "Eve is dying because _____ " will be? The fact is, Eve still has no real competition, and nothing even in development, for the things that actually make Eve what it is. Nobody out there is working on another single-shard sandbox with a no-holds-barred approach to player interaction and a player-driven economy and industry, whether featuring spaceships, land vehicles, or humanoid avatars. Okay, Perpetuum, but that's essentially an Eve clone with mechs and is so virtually non-existent in terms of subbed players or media coverage I can only assume it must be some sort of front organisation for money launderers.

So where is this 'competition zooming past them' if they don't drop everything to spend another 18 months on Incarna 2.0 going to appear from?

we wait and see when how long ccp.s luck is going out ,but it will happen.
the worst thing is we wanted them stall on development and go on to the dx11 tech.
how many people will still play dx9 games in about 2 years from now?

R.S.I2014
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#954 - 2013-01-19 12:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Scatim Helicon wrote:
The fact is, Eve still has no real competition, and nothing even in development, for the things that actually make Eve what it is.

The biggest actual danger to EVE seems to be Sony - they managed to deliver on PS2 and have been talking a lot about the virtues of sandbox mmos as of late (with rgds to EQ Next).

Of course now everybody will tell me how they would never ever play a fantasy MMO and that Sony will never understand sandbox MMOs (because of NGE) ... while at the same time posting in some other thread how awesome it is that John Smedley plays and loves EVE.

If I had to pick the single most important quote from the CSM minutes it would be:
Quote:
Unifex: How many of you would play this game if it were set in a fantasy land?

The CSM unanimously replied that if the same sandbox-style game play existed, it would be just as compelling in settings other than the science-fiction universe it happened to end up inside.

.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#955 - 2013-01-19 12:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Vera Algaert wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
The fact is, Eve still has no real competition, and nothing even in development, for the things that actually make Eve what it is.

The biggest actual danger to EVE seems to be Sony - they managed to deliver on PS2 and have been talking a lot about the virtues of sandbox mmos as of late (with rgds to EQ Next).

Of course now everybody will tell me that they would never ever play a fantasy MMO abnd that Sony will never underastand sandbox MMOs (because of NGE) ... while at the same time posting in some other thread how great it is that John Smedley plays and loves EVE.

If I had to pick teh single most important quote from the CSM minutes it would be:
Quote:
Unifex: How many of you would play this game if it were set in a fantasy land?

The CSM unanimously replied that if the same sandbox-style game play existed, it would be just ascompelling in settings other than the science-fiction universe it happened to end up inside.


I couldn't care less if it's spaceships, ogres, smurfs or even pink ponies.

What matters the most is the ruthless pvp centric sandbox.

The Tears Must Flow
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#956 - 2013-01-19 12:51:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Thomas Gore wrote:
As I've said before, CCP has got two, maybe three years to come up with something really new in their game or competition will go zooming past them like an interceptor racing a hulk.


We've been waiting for this competition to materialise for years now. "Eve is dying because Jumpgate Evolution is on the way". "Eve is dying because Black Prophecy is on the way". "Eve is dying because SWTOR is on the way". And today, it's "Eve is dying because Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous are on the way". It would be before my time, but I'm pretty sure I could dig back through the forum archives to 2003 and see "Eve is dying because (subsequently failed game project or vapourware) is on the way".

When Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous come out and completely fail to impact Eve (or spiral into development hell and are cancelled), I wonder what the next "Eve is dying because _____ " will be? The fact is, Eve still has no real competition, and nothing even in development, for the things that actually make Eve what it is. Nobody out there is working on another single-shard sandbox with a no-holds-barred approach to player interaction and a player-driven economy and industry, whether featuring spaceships, land vehicles, or humanoid avatars. Okay, Perpetuum, but that's essentially an Eve clone with mechs and is so virtually non-existent in terms of subbed players or media coverage I can only assume it must be some sort of front organisation for money launderers.

So where is this 'competition zooming past them' if they don't drop everything to spend another 18 months on Incarna 2.0 going to appear from?


Although I agree with you on the whole "Eve is dying/going to die" thing completely, I just want to play the devils advocate for a moment. These people may claim these things every time a new promising looking space game appears, and they have always been wrong, but statistically speaking (given enough time) it will eventually happen. Every time CCP puts off keeping up with competitions ideas they are taking a gamble.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#957 - 2013-01-19 13:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Sura Sadiva
Vaju Enki wrote:
[quote=Vera Algaert]
I couldn't care less if it's spaceships, ogres, smurfs or even pink ponies.

What matters the most is the ruthless pvp centric sandbox.


I think this is true for a larger part of palyers. We are here cause it's a persistent universe sandbox more than for the sci-fi setting. Then if somoene is also a sci-fi fan this is an added plus but not a decisive element in case of competition.


I'm a big sci-fi fan. However if tomorrow they say "we releasing a modern version of Ultima online" or a sandbox eve-style with fantasy setting I think I'd go there. Also because I'm sure in that case I could bring all my old group of friends. Thing that I cannot do with EvE.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#958 - 2013-01-19 13:19:45 UTC
I have posted in the CSM's thread, where they are asking for idea on what should go into the next expansion. Please post in there in support of Team Avatar's exploration idea. I think that's something everyone can get behind and enjoy.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=195133

Time to pull out all the stops. Show CCP how much we want it.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Typherian
Criterion.
Pandemic Legion
#959 - 2013-01-19 13:31:48 UTC
Star citizen is going to end up being another carebear paradise Star Trek online type failure. Any game with a PvP switch cannot compete with eve simple as that. Speaking of Star Trek it had wis and look how it turned out. If wis isn't PvP related its not worth it. PvP is what makes eve different not more carebear PvE stuff.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#960 - 2013-01-19 13:34:53 UTC
Typherian wrote:
Star citizen is going to end up being another carebear paradise Star Trek online type failure. Any game with a PvP switch cannot compete with eve simple as that. Speaking of Star Trek it had wis and look how it turned out. If wis isn't PvP related its not worth it. PvP is what makes eve different not more carebear PvE stuff.


This is why we need to supporting Team Avatars vision of exploration. Because it would have open PvP.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf