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CCP Eterne Deals Blow to New Order Resistance

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#61 - 2012-11-17 19:42:20 UTC
Melvin Coulter wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Harassing rookies is a violation of the EULA.


Define rookie? In terms of SP? or time?

and didnt we say that bumbing is not harassing?

I'm specifically telling you it's against the EULA to grief rookies.

What defines a rookie is CCP's sole discretion.

Bumping miners for potential profit is not griefing.

Not sure how that could be more clear.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Melvin Coulter
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#62 - 2012-11-17 19:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Melvin Coulter
So new order agents will be allowed to bumb new players?

Yes or no?

We have clarified that bumbing is NOT harassing.

BUT is doing it to say, 1 day old players who don't even know how to fly, harassing them?

Are there any rules set by this "New Order" Protecting them? After all when i started all i had was my pod and the starting isk what is it? 50.000isk?

The common rookie will not have 10mill

Move along!
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#63 - 2012-11-17 19:50:41 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Melvin Coulter wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Harassing rookies is a violation of the EULA.


Define rookie? In terms of SP? or time?

and didnt we say that bumbing is not harassing?

I'm specifically telling you it's against the EULA to grief rookies.

What defines a rookie is CCP's sole discretion.

Bumping miners for potential profit is not griefing.

Not sure how that could be more clear.

Actually, based on the miner's post in this thread and other threads like this one, I see a lot of grief from these miners just being bumped out of range. Why else would they be posting if they weren't QQ over the whole ordeal.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#64 - 2012-11-17 19:51:06 UTC
Melvin Coulter wrote:
So new order agents will be allowed to bumb new players?

Yes or no?

We have clarified that bumbing is NOT harassing.

BUT is doing it to say, 1 day old players who don't even know how to fly, harassing them?

Are there any rules set by this "New Order" Protecting them? After all when i started all i had was my pod and the starting isk what is it? 50.000isk?

The common rookie will not have 10mill

I can't speak for the New Order directly.

But my 2 ISK is this: It's never too early to curb bot-aspiration.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#65 - 2012-11-17 19:51:33 UTC
Melvin Coulter wrote:
So new order agents will be allowed to bumb new players?

Yes or no?

We have clarified that bumbing is NOT harassing.

BUT is doing it to say, 1 day old players who don't even know how to fly, harassing them?

Are there any rules set by this "New Order" Protecting them? After all when i started all i had was my pod and the starting isk what is it? 50.000isk?

The common rookie will not have 10mill

New players mine in starter systems.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#66 - 2012-11-17 19:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Melvin Coulter wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Harassing rookies is a violation of the EULA.


Define rookie? In terms of SP? or time?

and didnt we say that bumbing is not harassing?

I'm specifically telling you it's against the EULA to grief rookies.

What defines a rookie is CCP's sole discretion.

Bumping miners for potential profit is not griefing.

Not sure how that could be more clear.

Actually, based on the miner's post in this thread and other threads like this one, I see a lot of grief from these miners just being bumped out of range. Why else would they be posting if they weren't QQ over the whole ordeal.

That may be true. The grief they may feel is at the perceived sense of yield loss.

Fortunately their literal grief isn't caused by actions considered as griefing by CCP.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Cristobol Setterstrom
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-11-17 19:55:30 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Melvin Coulter wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Harassing rookies is a violation of the EULA.


Define rookie? In terms of SP? or time?

and didnt we say that bumbing is not harassing?

I'm specifically telling you it's against the EULA to grief rookies.

What defines a rookie is CCP's sole discretion.

Bumping miners for potential profit is not griefing.

Not sure how that could be more clear.

Actually, based on the miner's post in this thread and other threads like this one, I see a lot of grief from these miners just being bumped out of range. Why else would they be posting if they weren't QQ over the whole ordeal.

That may be true. The grief they may feel is at the perceived sense of yield loss.

Fortunately their literal grief isn't caused by actions considered as griefing by CCP.


I'm fairly sure CCP will do everything in their power to make sure they don't have to do anything about this with the excuse of "it's a sandbox game"
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#68 - 2012-11-17 19:57:07 UTC
Cristobol Setterstrom wrote:
I'm fairly sure CCP will do everything in their power to make sure they don't have to do anything about this with the excuse of "it's a sandbox game"

Why should they do something about bumping mechanics when they were an integral part of the design of the game's physics engine?

The purpose of bumping physics is to bump.

Therefore it's working as intended.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Melvin Coulter
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2012-11-17 19:59:40 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Cristobol Setterstrom wrote:
I'm fairly sure CCP will do everything in their power to make sure they don't have to do anything about this with the excuse of "it's a sandbox game"

Why should they do something about bumping mechanics when they were an integral part of the design of the game's physics engine?

The purpose of bumping physics is to bump.

Therefore it's working as intended.

He and I both mean the noobs. IPO this game has a terrible time with keep them. I fear that you demanding something from them that they do not have will scare them away faster.

Move along!
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#70 - 2012-11-17 20:00:48 UTC
Melvin Coulter wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
Okay, so let's follow the logic rabbit. If highsec isn't and shouldn't be safe, then it falls on someone to make it that way does it not? Why would you then encourage us to "leave them alone"?


So you make high sec safe by picking on the mining caste? The week? This does not make high sec safe. Things were fine the way they were before the new order came.

I can see one or two things happening to this "New Order"

1 its going to **** alot of people of and it will be crushed

or

2 it will work and I will move back to my WH and bring out billions worth of ore into a market starving for ore due to the lack of free mining.

either way. Eve will keep on chugging along.

BTW what do you do about noobs that you find mining?


Make it safe?!?!? Are you reading my posts or just thumbing through them? I make Highsec UNSAFE. Someone has got to do this do they not? Are you really willing to claim that highsec should be safe?

I sure hope EVE will keep chugging along which is exactly why I do what I do.

Furthermore, I kill noobs at my own discretion. To my knowledge, the only special treatment CCP affords noobs is a ban on can-baiting them in the starter systems, which I honor, but as soon as they jump one system over, I reserve the right to kill them in their very first mining frigate.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#71 - 2012-11-17 20:02:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Melvin Coulter wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Cristobol Setterstrom wrote:
I'm fairly sure CCP will do everything in their power to make sure they don't have to do anything about this with the excuse of "it's a sandbox game"

Why should they do something about bumping mechanics when they were an integral part of the design of the game's physics engine?

The purpose of bumping physics is to bump.

Therefore it's working as intended.

He and I both mean the noobs. IPO this game has a terrible time with keep them. I fear that you demanding something from them that they do not have will scare them away faster.

I think the New Order targets barges and exhumers.

Anyone who can fly a barge is not a noob by definition.

Anybody flying a barge has, at one point or another, had ISK or assets worth at least 10M ISK.

So unless their model changes to target people who can't actually pay, which would be idiocy because there's no money in it, I don't think there will be a problem.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#72 - 2012-11-17 20:07:39 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Melvin Coulter wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

Harassing rookies is a violation of the EULA.


Define rookie? In terms of SP? or time?

and didnt we say that bumbing is not harassing?

I'm specifically telling you it's against the EULA to grief rookies.

What defines a rookie is CCP's sole discretion.

Bumping miners for potential profit is not griefing.

Not sure how that could be more clear.

Actually, based on the miner's post in this thread and other threads like this one, I see a lot of grief from these miners just being bumped out of range. Why else would they be posting if they weren't QQ over the whole ordeal.

That may be true. The grief they may feel is at the perceived sense of yield loss.

Fortunately their literal grief isn't caused by actions considered as griefing by CCP.

True

@Galaxy Pig/James 315
are you bumping and possibly ganking non-afk miners (the potential is still there) and charging them for permits they don't need ? You know, the ones that are playing properly. Sorry, your website is not very clear on this part of the subject. If the answer is no, how do you determine that they are afk? Because they don't respond to private chats or talk in local? What if they just want to ignore you or not to be bothered with your silly game? I know when I first started playing, I didn't afk mine but I didn't talk to a soul either. Now when I mine, I still don't talk to a soul in game because I use this handy 3rd party program called teamspeak. Much faster communication than typing everything out. And I don't have to respond to annoying in game spammers or con artist that try and send a private chat.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Melvin Coulter
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#73 - 2012-11-17 20:08:02 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Melvin Coulter wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Cristobol Setterstrom wrote:
I'm fairly sure CCP will do everything in their power to make sure they don't have to do anything about this with the excuse of "it's a sandbox game"

Why should they do something about bumping mechanics when they were an integral part of the design of the game's physics engine?

The purpose of bumping physics is to bump.

Therefore it's working as intended.

He and I both mean the noobs. IPO this game has a terrible time with keep them. I fear that you demanding something from them that they do not have will scare them away faster.

I think the New Order targets barges and exhumers.

Anyone who can fly a barge is not a noob by definition.

Anybody flying a barge has, at one point or another, had ISK or assets worth at least 10M ISK.

So unless their model changes to target people who can't actually pay, which would be idiocy because there's no money in it, I don't think there will be a problem.


Thank you for answering what i was asking. Hats off to you sir!

Move along!
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#74 - 2012-11-17 20:09:57 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
@Galaxy Pig/James 315
are you bumping and possibly ganking non-afk miners (the potential is still there) and charging them for permits they don't need ? You know, the ones that are playing properly. Sorry, your website is not very clear on this part of the subject. If the answer is no, how do you determine that they are afk? Because they don't respond to private chats or talk in local? What if they just want to ignore you or not to be bothered with your silly game? I know when I first started playing, I didn't afk mine but I didn't talk to a soul either. Now when I mine, I still don't talk to a soul in game because I use this handy 3rd party program called teamspeak. Much faster communication than typing everything out. And I don't have to respond to annoying in game spammers or con artist that try and send a private chat.

If they don't pay they have no guarantee their mining lasers will be in range of any targets. It doesn't matter if they're playing the "ignore game."

If they can't mine like they're trying to, that's kind of hard to ignore.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#75 - 2012-11-17 20:14:54 UTC
How about if everytime someone in High Sec accepts a Mission, that fact and a coordinate bookmark are broadcast system wide for all to see, and invade and utterly disrupt and 'bump' the Missioning to the point the area and mission have to be abandoned.



Same with minimng.

You stop gameplay, you fundamentally kill the game.

You are working towards the REAL EVE endgame......shutting it down.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#76 - 2012-11-17 20:16:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
How about if everytime someone in High Sec accepts a Mission, that fact and a coordinate bookmark are broadcast system wide for all to see, and invade and utterly disrupt and 'bump' the Missioning to the point the area and mission have to be abandoned.



Same with minimng.

You stop gameplay, you fundamentally kill the game.

You are working towards the REAL EVE endgame......shutting it down.

There are plenty of counters you keep pretending don't exist. They've been suggested in this very thread by CCP Falcon.

CCP Falcon wrote:
So, I just spoke to the GM Team regarding this to get some clarification:

Firstly, people who are bumped always have the right to petition. It is the right of any player who feels that they want to petition an issue to do so.

However, with regards to the rules in EVE Online our current view is:

Bumping is not considered harassment.
Bumping is not considered griefing.
Bumping is not against the rules.


It's actually been used for a long time to prevent warping as a rudimentary form of tackling when you don't have a point, or don't have sufficient disruption strength to keep someone pinned.

Along with that, the people that are doing this for the best part are in player corporations. If you don't like what they're doing, declare war on them so that you can punish them, or pay a merc corp to do so on your behalf if you don't want to fight.

There are plenty of options to counter this, if you use your imagination.


Miners can also mine aligned and warp out of the belts when neutrals or hostiles in combat ships land and wait for the other playes to "play through" - just like golf.

But golf isn't dying either.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#77 - 2012-11-17 20:18:25 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
@Galaxy Pig/James 315
are you bumping and possibly ganking non-afk miners (the potential is still there) and charging them for permits they don't need ? You know, the ones that are playing properly. Sorry, your website is not very clear on this part of the subject. If the answer is no, how do you determine that they are afk? Because they don't respond to private chats or talk in local? What if they just want to ignore you or not to be bothered with your silly game? I know when I first started playing, I didn't afk mine but I didn't talk to a soul either. Now when I mine, I still don't talk to a soul in game because I use this handy 3rd party program called teamspeak. Much faster communication than typing everything out. And I don't have to respond to annoying in game spammers or con artist that try and send a private chat.

If they don't pay they have no guarantee their mining lasers will be in range of any targets. It doesn't matter if they're playing the "ignore game."

If they can't mine like they're trying to, that's kind of hard to ignore.

True enough, but what if the miner responds with a "please stop" or "**** off" while being bumped, will they still have to pay for a permit even though they are not botting and not AFK?

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#78 - 2012-11-17 20:19:10 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
@Galaxy Pig/James 315
are you bumping and possibly ganking non-afk miners (the potential is still there) and charging them for permits they don't need ? You know, the ones that are playing properly. Sorry, your website is not very clear on this part of the subject. If the answer is no, how do you determine that they are afk? Because they don't respond to private chats or talk in local? What if they just want to ignore you or not to be bothered with your silly game? I know when I first started playing, I didn't afk mine but I didn't talk to a soul either. Now when I mine, I still don't talk to a soul in game because I use this handy 3rd party program called teamspeak. Much faster communication than typing everything out. And I don't have to respond to annoying in game spammers or con artist that try and send a private chat.

If they don't pay they have no guarantee their mining lasers will be in range of any targets. It doesn't matter if they're playing the "ignore game."

If they can't mine like they're trying to, that's kind of hard to ignore.

True enough, but what if the miner responds with a "please stop" or "**** off" while being bumped, will they still have to pay for a permit even though they are not botting and not AFK?

They responded, that's evidence they can receive the demand for 10M isk for a 365 day mining permit.

So it's not a problem.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#79 - 2012-11-17 20:20:53 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
How about if everytime someone in High Sec accepts a Mission, that fact and a coordinate bookmark are broadcast system wide for all to see, and invade and utterly disrupt and 'bump' the Missioning to the point the area and mission have to be abandoned.



Same with minimng.

You stop gameplay, you fundamentally kill the game.

You are working towards the REAL EVE endgame......shutting it down.

There are plenty of counters you keep pretending don't exist. They've been suggested in this very thread by CCP Falcon.

CCP Falcon wrote:
So, I just spoke to the GM Team regarding this to get some clarification:

Firstly, people who are bumped always have the right to petition. It is the right of any player who feels that they want to petition an issue to do so.

However, with regards to the rules in EVE Online our current view is:

Bumping is not considered harassment.
Bumping is not considered griefing.
Bumping is not against the rules.


It's actually been used for a long time to prevent warping as a rudimentary form of tackling when you don't have a point, or don't have sufficient disruption strength to keep someone pinned.

Along with that, the people that are doing this for the best part are in player corporations. If you don't like what they're doing, declare war on them so that you can punish them, or pay a merc corp to do so on your behalf if you don't want to fight.

There are plenty of options to counter this, if you use your imagination.


Miners can also mine aligned and warp out of the belts when neutrals or hostiles in combat ships land and wait for the other playes to "play through" - just like golf.

But golf isn't dying either.


Welp, I highly disagree with CCP Falcon.

Just because he works for CCP does not make his opinions the Word of God.

You disrupt playstyles (forcing industrialists into perpetual wars that will not stop) you kill the gameplay.

And folks will indeed leave.

Have fun on your empty server.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#80 - 2012-11-17 20:22:32 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
How about if everytime someone in High Sec accepts a Mission, that fact and a coordinate bookmark are broadcast system wide for all to see, and invade and utterly disrupt and 'bump' the Missioning to the point the area and mission have to be abandoned.



Same with minimng.

You stop gameplay, you fundamentally kill the game.

You are working towards the REAL EVE endgame......shutting it down.

There are plenty of counters you keep pretending don't exist. They've been suggested in this very thread by CCP Falcon.

CCP Falcon wrote:
So, I just spoke to the GM Team regarding this to get some clarification:

Firstly, people who are bumped always have the right to petition. It is the right of any player who feels that they want to petition an issue to do so.

However, with regards to the rules in EVE Online our current view is:

Bumping is not considered harassment.
Bumping is not considered griefing.
Bumping is not against the rules.


It's actually been used for a long time to prevent warping as a rudimentary form of tackling when you don't have a point, or don't have sufficient disruption strength to keep someone pinned.

Along with that, the people that are doing this for the best part are in player corporations. If you don't like what they're doing, declare war on them so that you can punish them, or pay a merc corp to do so on your behalf if you don't want to fight.

There are plenty of options to counter this, if you use your imagination.


Miners can also mine aligned and warp out of the belts when neutrals or hostiles in combat ships land and wait for the other playes to "play through" - just like golf.

But golf isn't dying either.


Welp, I highly disagree with CCP Falcon.

Just because he works for CCP does not make his opinions the Word of God.

You disrupt playstyles (forcing industrialists into perpetual wars that will not stop) you kill the gameplay.

And folks will indeed leave.

Have fun on your empty server.

That is indeed your right.

Have you been to a golf course lately? People play through all the time and that game is alive and well!

Sorry you disagree.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom