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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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freighter fits

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#61 - 2012-11-18 21:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Souisa wrote:
Basically the freighter doesent do its job very good atm.
Yes it does.
It is the pinnacle of bulk carrying capacity and has enough tank to haul all those goods around without being a complete piñata. It also has decent agility given all that bulk. It is, in short, the perfect combination of the three stats and you don't need to give up any one of them in order to have them all.

Quote:
Basically with fitting slots this could change.
With fitting slots, it would have less base cargo. This is a nerf. You could compensate for this by adding cargo expanders. This would make it slower and weaker — a nerf. You could make it a bit stronger, but that would again make it carry less cargo and make it slower — a nerf. You could also make it faster, but that would make it weaker and carry less cargo — a nerf.

Quote:
The idea is to lower the base m3 and base structural HP
…so don't come and say that it's not a nerf.

Quote:
People dont even have to choose between speed, tank or m3, it is entirely possible to make a compromise and actually end up with a freighter that is similar to the one today, however it all depends on the new base attributes
No, it will not. It must forcibly be worse than it is today because you will only be able to get the same cargo capacity by filling every last slot with cargo expanding mods… all of which make it weaker on top of the lower HP you're already asking for. In total: a nerf.

So, why do you want to nerf it? What problem are you trying to solve by doing so? Why not ask for a new ship instead?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#62 - 2012-11-18 21:17:31 UTC
Souisa wrote:
I think there are plenty of ships in EVE already. Besides if we agree that the freighter can improve from this, why make a new ship, instead of supporting the change to the freighter
The freighter will not improve from this, we've already established it will in fact be worse.

You seem to fail to understand that it's cargo hold will be nerfed to a point, that the best available cargo fitting option wouldn't increase it more than it's current state. Do you understand what this means?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#63 - 2012-11-18 21:25:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Basically the freighter doesent do its job very good atm.
Yes it does.
It is the pinnacle of bulk carrying capacity and has enough tank to haul all those goods around without being a complete piñata. It also has decent agility given all that bulk. It is, in short, the perfect combination of the three stats and you don't need to give up any one of them in order to have them all.

Quote:
Basically with fitting slots this could change.
With fitting slots, it would have less base cargo. This is a nerf. You could compensate for this by adding cargo expanders. This would make it slower and weaker — a nerf. You could make it a bit stronger, but that would again make it carry less cargo and make it slower — a nerf. You could also make it faster, but that would make it weaker and carry less cargo — a nerf.

Quote:
The idea is to lower the base m3 and base structural HP
…so don't come and say that it's not a nerf.

Quote:
People dont even have to choose between speed, tank or m3, it is entirely possible to make a compromise and actually end up with a freighter that is similar to the one today, however it all depends on the new base attributes
No, it will not. It must forcibly be worse than it is today because you will only be able to get the same cargo capacity by filling every last slot with cargo expanding mods… all of which make it weaker on top of the lower HP you're already asking for. In total: a nerf.

So, why do you want to nerf it? What problem are you trying to solve by doing so? Why not ask for a new ship instead?


Well like i said before, if you dont look at the big picture, you only see this is a nerf. However rigs in combination with low slots will enable for a freighter that can do the same as the current one, or it can be worse in one aspect or better in another. the examples i have given should help you understand

o/
Mag's
Azn Empire
#64 - 2012-11-18 21:29:07 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Well like i said before, if you dont look at the big picture, you only see this is a nerf. However rigs in combination with low slots will enable for a freighter that can do the same as the current one, or it can be worse in one aspect or better in another. the examples i have given should help you understand
Please explain how your fitting, could get the new freighter to the same stats as now.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#65 - 2012-11-18 21:30:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
Mag's wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Well like i said before, if you dont look at the big picture, you only see this is a nerf. However rigs in combination with low slots will enable for a freighter that can do the same as the current one, or it can be worse in one aspect or better in another. the examples i have given should help you understand
Please explain how your fitting, could get the new freighter to the same stats as now.


Its in the main post...

o/
Mag's
Azn Empire
#66 - 2012-11-18 21:32:08 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Souisa wrote:
Well like i said before, if you dont look at the big picture, you only see this is a nerf. However rigs in combination with low slots will enable for a freighter that can do the same as the current one, or it can be worse in one aspect or better in another. the examples i have given should help you understand
Please explain how your fitting, could get the new freighter to the same stats as now.


Its in the main post...
Which doesn't keep them at the same stats as now, so please show us a fitting that can.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#67 - 2012-11-18 21:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Souisa wrote:
Well like i said before, if you dont look at the big picture, you only see this is a nerf. However rigs in combination with low slots will enable for a freighter that can do the same as the current one
No. It will not. This is the bigger picture that your limited understanding of the game mechanics involved keeps you from seeing: it cannot possible be the same as the current one.

For every lowslot you add, you must reduce base cargo capacity by 22%. For every rig slot you add, you must reduce base cargo capacity by 17%. In order for the ship to be the same in only one aspect — cargo — I therefore must use all low and rig slots for cargo expansion mods. As a result, this ship will forcibly have (under the best circumstances) 5% less armour per rig slot; and have 20% less hull HP and be 10% slower per lowslot. For every one of those slots that I try to use to be stronger or faster, I will lose 22% or 17% of my cargo space.

End result: it is impossible for such a ship to be the same as the current freighters. It can only ever be worse in at least one, but most likely two or even all three, of your characteristics. The game mechanics and balance simply do not allow any other option.

If you want a ship that is worse than a freighter, but which gives you options, why not ask for such a ship? Why do you have to nerf freighters? What problem do you solve by doing so?

Quote:
the examples i have given should help you understand
The examples only illustrate that you do not understand how fitting bonuses and penalties work, or how the enforced restrictions on freighters work, or how the combination of different bonuses work. Hell, it only illustrates that you don't understand basic maths.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#68 - 2012-11-18 22:01:02 UTC
Tippia... take a step back and breathe. Your frustration (while understandable) is beginning to ooze through your text. Straight

I would also like to point out that OP really is as dense as he seems. In another thread he honestly thinks that unnerfing warp core stabs will increase PvP and not be exploited.

How did you Veterans start?
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#69 - 2012-11-18 22:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Souisa
I never suggested to lower m3 when adding low-slots, i suggested lowering structural HP. However, i did suggest lowering m3 according to rig slots. I even ran some numbers, and when you have a calibration of 300 it will not be possible to achive more than about 34% increase in cargo capacity from rigs. This is due to the stacking penalties. The result is the new freighters base m3 should be x+34% = Old base m3

Some people are worried that some people will use the low slots to increase m3 as well but why is that a problem? The result would only be a freighter with more m3 but even less EHP.

o/
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#70 - 2012-11-18 23:04:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Souisa wrote:
I never suggested to lower m3 when adding low-slots
…and that is why your entire idea fails.

You have to do that to maintain the constraints on freighter cargo capacity. As always, this has been explained to you numerous times, and playing ignorant no longer works. So again, for every lowslot, you must reduce base cargo capacity by 22%. There are no two ways about it. From this follows the rest — you cannot recreate the current freighters if they are given slots — and the end result is that you're asking for a pointless nerf to a ship for no good reason.

We are still wondering why this is? What will is solve? If all you want is a worse ship with more options, why not ask for that instead?
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#71 - 2012-11-18 23:07:00 UTC
The cap on m3 is relative to the tanking ability and speed of the ship. It doesent matter if a ship exceeds 1kk m3 cargo capacity if its slow in accordance and easy to gank

o/
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#72 - 2012-11-18 23:11:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Souisa wrote:
The cap on m3 is relative to the tanking ability and speed of the ship
No. You know this already. Stop trolling.

The simple fact remains: for every lowslot, you must reduce base cargo space by 22%; for every rig slot, you must reduce base cargo by 17%. There is no way around this if you want to keep your wish for fitting options. As a result, any such ship will unavoidably be worse than the current freighters.

So again: why do you want to nerf freighters? What problem are you trying to solve by doing so? Why not ask for a new ship instead?
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#73 - 2012-11-18 23:18:34 UTC
I think adding a new freighter with fitting options will obsolete the old one. And it doesent really make sense to add a new frieghter with fitting options just because the old one doesent have it.

But more importantly you seem to be evading my points, what do you think about reducing structural hp instead of m3 when adding low-slots?

o/
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2012-11-18 23:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Souisa wrote:
I think adding a new freighter with fitting options will obsolete the old one.
Unlikely, since the new one will not be as good at its job as the current freighters.

Quote:
And it doesent really make sense to add a new frieghter with fitting options just because the old one doesent have it.
…tells you a lot about the idea as a whole, doesn't it?

Quote:
But more importantly you seem to be evading my points, what do you think about reducing structural hp instead of m3 when adding low-slots?
Can't be done. You already know why this is as you were told this repeatedly in your locked thread. Your point was answered weeks ago and you are the only one being evasive about any (or, specifically, all) points being made. That's why your thread was locked for trolling: because you kept refusing to acknowledge what everyone told you repeatedly.

Lowslots or rig slots → reduced cargo capacity, period. Unconditionally and unavoidably. Live with it. If it ruins your idea, then your idea does not work. Come up with a new one, say, a much worse ship with options instead, since that's what you want anyway.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#75 - 2012-11-18 23:28:03 UTC
Considering your general disrespect, and accusations of me trolling and being ignorant i think i have been pretty tolerant of you. However i think im done now :)

o/
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#76 - 2012-11-18 23:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Souisa wrote:
Considering your general disrespect, and accusations of me trolling and being ignorant i think i have been pretty tolerant of you.
Considering your general display of ignorance and of trolling behaviour, I think I've been more than kind to you.

Your idea is a nerf to freighters. There are no two ways about it. Anyone with a basic grasp of mechanics and of the balance restrictions imposed on bulk freight can tell this and many have been trying to tell you as well to no avail. That just leaves the questions you don't want to answer: why do you want to nerf freighters? What problem are you trying to solve by doing so?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#77 - 2012-11-18 23:47:31 UTC
Souisa wrote:
The cap on m3 is relative to the tanking ability and speed of the ship. It doesent matter if a ship exceeds 1kk m3 cargo capacity if its slow in accordance and easy to gank
It's cargo cap is only relative in the fact that your idea nerfs both speed and tank, to attain the same cap. It cannot and will not be allowed to exceed the present cargo cap, for reasons that have been explained time and time again.

So why do you want to nerf freighters, what problem are you trying to solve and why not simply ask for a new ship type?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#78 - 2012-11-19 00:51:30 UTC
Didnt you already ask that question?

o/
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#79 - 2012-11-19 00:52:38 UTC
Souisa wrote:
Didnt you already ask that question?
Many many many times, and you are not able to answer it.

So why do you want to nerf freighters, what problem are you trying to solve and why not simply ask for a new ship type?
Souisa
Subhypersonics
#80 - 2012-11-19 01:03:52 UTC
What id like to know is, how lowering structual hitpoints but adding low-slots is a nerf.

o/