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Dev Blog: Back to the balancing future!

First post First post
Author
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#181 - 2012-11-06 17:46:19 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:


Technically they're my minions Cool


Tsk tsk, management trying to get involved, as always :/

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#182 - 2012-11-06 17:47:03 UTC
Well we have to wait till we see actual number that will change. Straight

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#183 - 2012-11-06 17:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Daneel Trevize
Bantara wrote:
Daneel Trevize wrote:
Bantara wrote:
ReK42 wrote:
It's still a nerf to the boost itself {...}

Problem with gamers on the internet--"nerf" has become synonymous with "reduction".
Er because it means that? Maybe you're confused with a reduction being a bad/negative thing for balance, or in some way implying nerfing involves instantly bringing something below average or competitive, rather than just down from too high a place?

No, it didn't. Originally, "nerf" came from Neft bats and their other toys, referring to a reduction so severe as to make something useless.
Good point, but the common increase and reduction terms are nerf and buff. And a buff hardly implies an OP change, at least in my mind. Mostly because many seem to want unconsidered power creep and thus dislike any reductions.
Dracko Malus
Messerschmitt Vertrieb und Logistik
#184 - 2012-11-06 17:48:34 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
HydroSan wrote:

Basically Gallente sucks because the game mechanics suck. Can we just get fixes to active tanking and drones? Drone UI needs to be completely redone.


Those are going to be a different dev blog


No need to talk about drones.

Tess La'Coil's loveslave.

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2012-11-06 17:49:46 UTC
fleetboosters working like warp bubbles is cool stuff.

but not with the current grid mechanics, there should be a default grid of at least 1000km around all places where fights might happen
Ong
Lumberjack Commandos
#186 - 2012-11-06 17:50:57 UTC
While I approve the the strength reduction on T3 boosts please dont make them have to be on grid. Those of us that do sub 10 man gangs and solo just plain need links for fighting 30-40 man gangs and having a chance to kill a few before having to gtfo without all just dying in a fire.

What should happen is:

Command ships be able to give better bonus to the whole fleet but have to be on field

T3 be able to off grid boost but only be able to give bonus to a squad (10 people) and provide less bonus

No command bonus from inside a pos what so ever.

These chances would mean that solo and small gang people still have a chance and command ships still have their role in medium to large War fair.
Havegun Willtravel
Mobile Alcohol Processing Units
#187 - 2012-11-06 17:51:35 UTC
Overall first impressions are interesting. Thanks in advance for consulting, I'm sure the community input will help overall.

Proph as a drone boat ? Personaly i'm not getting it. As a HAM boat maybe. It would fit with the semi-split laser/missle amar philosophy atm. Crowd sourcing should make this better.

Cyclone/Cane - Both are fine. The genuine issue here has nothing to do at all with the hulls. It's AC's. Fall off makes no sense in any logical analysis. Combined with dial in damage selection, no cap use, and to a lesser degree tracking enhancers, there is little incentive to fly any other race of gunship. This is the root cause that you need to be addresing, not hull changes.
( Or as a stop gap measure, Fall Off Disrution Script for TD's )


Brutix - Technicaly there's nothing wrong with it, other than a semi useless rep bonus. It's not genuinely in conflict with the Talos. It's half the price of a talos hull, less than that when fit. Medium tech 2 blasters have a much lower skill requirement than tech 2 large so the barrier to entry is less of an issue. Leave it alone in general. If you realy want to buff it, add 25 to the drone bay and keep the banwidth as is. This way you can get a spare flight of smalls to be flexible. Idealy swap the rep bonus for a HP or better yet resist bonus and problem solved.

Myrm - Un-nerfing the myrm's bandwidth is not going to solve much tbh. The real issue is heavy drones are to slow. They have serious issues catching kiting drakes or worse cane's. Using mediums instead of heavies is like using assault launchers instead of HAM's on a drake. You give away to much dps. This is again an issue of the hull being fine but the module needing to be fixed first.

Mega - I'm not liking where you headed with this atm. Reducing it's already fragile tank in favor of more dps doesn't seem like a solution. It's already borderline in terms of pg vs the other races to fit tank. This makes it less than ideal for PvE let alone pvp. Resist bonus would again be a solution, or HP ( why do Amar have exclusive territory here ? ) and another 50 in the drone bay would help. This needs to be crowd sourced more. There's a reason this ship is fielded less often than all the other races.


Hype - The only tier 1 that doesn't have 125 m2 drone bay and it's Galente Shocked ? 175 with 125 bandwidth would be a good start. Then the active tank issue needs to be looked at. As it stands right now the Hype is an excellent ship as long as it has cap boosters. When they're gone so are you. Being stupidly slow doesn't help it in the least either. Having the fewest number of low slots of any tier 1 just add's to the fail. The rokh, babbon, and mael have all found a place in null and LS doctrines, the hype is the only one looking for a purpose.

Domi -- Fine as it is. A tough of pg would be nice but as with the myrm the problem isn't the hull it's the weap. Heavies are just to slow to be effective. To a lesser degree rails need to be looked at. Overall they just dont compete well in pvp. Thus the reason you see so many ac myrm's and domi's.

Astarte/Eos - How about swithcing to a sheild rep bonus and giving them some mids ? On the bright side anything you do will be an improvement considering how bad they are atm.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#188 - 2012-11-06 17:52:50 UTC
I'm very concerned on command ships - namely those under current field badge. Will they retain their full 4 combat bonuses and get another one on top of it to have gang-links as a true option or they gonna get hit (once again) and get something removed for that purpose?

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#189 - 2012-11-06 17:54:36 UTC
Ong wrote:
While I approve the the strength reduction on T3 boosts please dont make them have to be on grid. Those of us that do sub 10 man gangs and solo just plain need links for fighting 30-40 man gangs and having a chance to kill a few before having to gtfo without all just dying in a fire.

What should happen is:

Command ships be able to give better bonus to the whole fleet but have to be on field

T3 be able to off grid boost but only be able to give bonus to a squad (10 people) and provide less bonus

No command bonus from inside a pos what so ever.

These chances would mean that solo and small gang people still have a chance and command ships still have their role in medium to large War fair.


Guess what, those 30-40 man gangs exist in part because 10 of the same players cannot compete with your 10 man offgrid boosted gang in the first place. You're part of the problem.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#190 - 2012-11-06 17:55:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
Ong wrote:
While I approve the the strength reduction on T3 boosts please dont make them have to be on grid. Those of us that do sub 10 man gangs and solo just plain need links for fighting 30-40 man gangs and having a chance to kill a few before having to gtfo without all just dying in a fire.

Agreed on that careful approach is required instead of blatant 'bring them in grid and consider it done'.

CCP really should consider making gang-links balanced by splitting the effect they provide depending on the ship number in fleet, so that a ship can no longer boost 50 others for the same effect as boosting just one.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

James Arget
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
#191 - 2012-11-06 17:56:15 UTC
If you're looking to make info links more useful, give us some neut/capacitor bonuses with them.

CSM 8 Representative

http://csm8.org

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#192 - 2012-11-06 17:56:22 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
fleetboosters working like warp bubbles is cool stuff.

but not with the current grid mechanics, there should be a default grid of at least 1000km around all places where fights might happen

Hmm, and trying to think in code I can understand why game designers cringe about this.

There are this other group of employees that have the pleasure of converting game design to an actually working game, they're called coders, and they can be nasty ...

It's relatively easy to come up with a design that seems to work for everyone, it's not always as easy to turn that utopia into working code.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#193 - 2012-11-06 17:57:37 UTC
James Arget wrote:
If you're looking to make info links more useful, give us some neut/capacitor bonuses with them.


not sure what you mean by neut bonus to a link but certainly cap and fittings need to be looked at.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Ong
Lumberjack Commandos
#194 - 2012-11-06 17:58:25 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Ong wrote:
While I approve the the strength reduction on T3 boosts please dont make them have to be on grid. Those of us that do sub 10 man gangs and solo just plain need links for fighting 30-40 man gangs and having a chance to kill a few before having to gtfo without all just dying in a fire.

What should happen is:

Command ships be able to give better bonus to the whole fleet but have to be on field

T3 be able to off grid boost but only be able to give bonus to a squad (10 people) and provide less bonus

No command bonus from inside a pos what so ever.

These chances would mean that solo and small gang people still have a chance and command ships still have their role in medium to large War fair.


Guess what, those 30-40 man gangs exist in part because 10 of the same players cannot compete with your 10 man offgrid boosted gang in the first place. You're part of the problem.



Thats just not true those same people can get links and often do.

if people bring 40 man gangs to fight sub 10 then those that are actually risking something should get a little help.
Speak Silence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#195 - 2012-11-06 18:00:39 UTC
I meet all the requirements for flying field command ships but never trained for the fleet command ships (missing information link specialist). After the change will I still be able to fly my sleipnir/absolution or are you going to require the terrible fleet command skills for all CS?

Is your rorqual tackled?

Creat Posudol
German Oldies
#196 - 2012-11-06 18:01:42 UTC
There is a lot of talk about boosting from behind a POS shield. I actually think this is fine (and should be possible) IF boosting is changed to ongrid boosting. So if you defend a POS, you can have the booster inside the shield, makes perfect sense.
Obviously it is broken at the moment with Offgrid boosting, so a temporary fix might be in order that at least removes this ability for now, in other words: put it back once boosting is changed to be ongrid only!

To me it would be very sad if even people defending a pos couldn't boost from inside.
Dracko Malus
Messerschmitt Vertrieb und Logistik
#197 - 2012-11-06 18:02:08 UTC
Speak Silence wrote:
I meet all the requirements for flying field command ships but never trained for the fleet command ships (missing information link specialist). After the change will I still be able to fly my sleipnir/absolution or are you going to require the terrible fleet command skills for all CS?

"Let us repeat again: if you could fly it before, you will be able to do so after the change. "

Quote from the devblog.

Tess La'Coil's loveslave.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#198 - 2012-11-06 18:03:04 UTC
1. Command ship buf +1


2. GENERAL LINK NERF! HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW



I'm pleased..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Dracko Malus
Messerschmitt Vertrieb und Logistik
#199 - 2012-11-06 18:05:44 UTC
Creat Posudol wrote:
There is a lot of talk about boosting from behind a POS shield. I actually think this is fine (and should be possible) IF boosting is changed to ongrid boosting. So if you defend a POS, you can have the booster inside the shield, makes perfect sense.
Obviously it is broken at the moment with Offgrid boosting, so a temporary fix might be in order that at least removes this ability for now, in other words: put it back once boosting is changed to be ongrid only!

To me it would be very sad if even people defending a pos couldn't boost from inside.


I might be thinking too simple but can't you just set the boost range to the mining links to systemwide and the others to "on-grid"? Or are people going to complain that people mining should have a booster in their belt because boosting mining from a POS also gives the miners an unfair advantage? This eliminates the discussion rolling back to mining where I think it has no relation.

Tess La'Coil's loveslave.

Ong
Lumberjack Commandos
#200 - 2012-11-06 18:07:03 UTC
Creat Posudol wrote:
There is a lot of talk about boosting from behind a POS shield. I actually think this is fine (and should be possible) IF boosting is changed to ongrid boosting. So if you defend a POS, you can have the booster inside the shield, makes perfect sense.
Obviously it is broken at the moment with Offgrid boosting, so a temporary fix might be in order that at least removes this ability for now, in other words: put it back once boosting is changed to be ongrid only!

To me it would be very sad if even people defending a pos couldn't boost from inside.


You cant do a single thing inside a pos, cant lock let alone shoot/point even agro with smart bombs. Giving bonus from inside a pos is a broken mechanic, and leads to zero risk for the ship itself. T3 links can be scaned, commands on field can be killed, everything in this game should have risk.