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Dev Blog: Fast Forward

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Weitkunat
Moira.
#241 - 2012-10-23 00:22:09 UTC
Iris Bravemount wrote:
Weitkunat wrote:
Omnicide Incarnate wrote:
So uh... I dont see anything thats going to make it any easier to make FW interesting when ur outnumbered 4 to 1

You should strive to outnumber your opponent in every engagement.


Oh well that's smart. Try to recruit people when the other guys can offer tier 5 LP rates and effortless reward...

An outnumbered force can still defeat their enemy with proper discipline and force multipliers.
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#242 - 2012-10-23 00:25:12 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Santa's coming early this year, and he's bringing the pain to AFK farmers!! Cool

Many thanks to the team for pushing this out early.


I have a question. It is in regards to this part here:


Quote:
•Have plex capture timers visible to everyone in system so you can easily tell which plexes are close to being captured.


I am kind of curious on this. To me this change doesn't really improve gameplay and this piece of intel definately favors the attacking player and not the defensive player, because I presume that the timer will be actively showing on everyone's HUD throughout the system, so you will know if an enemy is at a particular plex or not. While I see how this information could be "nice" to have, I don't see it something critical or game-breaking if it wasn't implimented. In some respects, it makes finding your opponent, particularly solo pilots, a bit too easy.

Could you clarifiy the reasoning behind this?

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Guillaume Conquerant
#243 - 2012-10-23 00:27:08 UTC
Just a quick thought: The number of missions is fine for everything but distribution missions. With a good hauler, it's not uncommon for me to load up on 10 or more of those, especially as I'm running lvl 2/3 to grind up to lvl 4's.

Please consider upping this for distribution missions! Otherwise this will be a nerf for people grinding standing.
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#244 - 2012-10-23 00:28:47 UTC
Weitkunat wrote:
Iris Bravemount wrote:
Weitkunat wrote:
Omnicide Incarnate wrote:
So uh... I dont see anything thats going to make it any easier to make FW interesting when ur outnumbered 4 to 1

You should strive to outnumber your opponent in every engagement.


Oh well that's smart. Try to recruit people when the other guys can offer tier 5 LP rates and effortless reward...

An outnumbered force can still defeat their enemy with proper discipline and force multipliers.


It's not even about winning fights, it's just that offensive plexing will take ages and must be done in PvE ships, while defensive plexing will still be done in 2 days old alts and in no time.

Add the bad LP yield for the losing side and the awesome LP yield for the winning side to this, and you have an unsolvable situation for the losing side.

The system itself is flawed, not the players in it (on neither side).

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
David Campbell
Primas Custos
#245 - 2012-10-23 00:31:46 UTC
Iris Bravemount wrote:

I am not in FW because I want to kill rats.

Even if you can sustain yourself on the losing side, what's the point of fighting if you KNOW that you can never win because your opponent just has 6.5 times your income?


It's a never ending war, no one should ever win. As long as you can fund your pvp and find some target, who gives a **** who's on top of the sov war.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#246 - 2012-10-23 00:46:58 UTC
Now I can see and understand what you are doing, hotfixes to FW are greatly required.

The change that will make the most difference will be the NPC change, it’s not the fact that sites can be farmed in frigates it’s that majors can and this should stop that or make it very time consuming.

To take a Major by killing NPC’s takes a big PVE commitment in ship fittings, I have a few Ishtar fits that can do it and still fit tackle but this is almost certain to be best done as a group now. That is not a terrible idea but the way the rewards share mean that you will be better off running minors in PVP frigates/destroyers solo.

Defensive plexing could have been handled differently, this is where the farmers will move to and this may result in a very static warzone.

Good system upgrades would have been one of the ways to get people to defend and this really would have been better to iterate on.

Mission number changes are good, but missions really need changing and integrating better into FW.

Still feel abandoning the tier system is a mistake, it has been driving conflict until you announced nerfing it, and you could have easily tweaked the levels to even out the extremes instead. The underdog sides will find life very tricky income wise now.

Also think you missed a trick with the deployment, it is easy to think that this sort of change needs implementing quickly and secretly to avoid exploitation but some of the best activity has been in the build-up to patch days and a weeks’ notice could possibly led to more interesting play consequences.
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#247 - 2012-10-23 00:55:22 UTC
Good to see someone cleaning up the mess CCP Soundwaffe made, thanks Team of Drones,
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2012-10-23 00:56:20 UTC
Regarding the future changes

•We will be attempting to release two new features to the FW complexes that have been suggested many times by the FW community to increase PVP opportunities in complexes:

•Have plex capture timers count backwards to the default state when no players are contesting them
•Have plex capture timers visible to everyone in system so you can easily tell which plexes are close to being captured.

The first is a great change. The second is not.

It immediately gives away the position pilots in a system, not just that he/she is running the plex but that they are on the button and away from the warp in or if the timer is not running then they are probably at the warp in.

In a system with a pirate and a war target, sitting on the entrance and ship on scan but timer not running then probably the pirate or they are at the warp in.

It is too much intel and I am not even sure what the gain is? I expect to warp around and D-scan the plexes and assess local threats that is part of the hunt, if this is introduced then you will always know where to go.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#249 - 2012-10-23 00:59:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Messenger
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Regarding the future changes

•We will be attempting to release two new features to the FW complexes that have been suggested many times by the FW community to increase PVP opportunities in complexes:

•Have plex capture timers count backwards to the default state when no players are contesting them
•Have plex capture timers visible to everyone in system so you can easily tell which plexes are close to being captured.

The first is a great change. The second is not.

It immediately gives away the position pilots in a system, not just that he/she is running the plex but that they are on the button and away from the warp in or if the timer is not running then they are probably at the warp in.

In a system with a pirate and a war target, sitting on the entrance and ship on scan but timer not running then probably the pirate or they are at the warp in.

It is too much intel and I am not even sure what the gain is? I expect to warp around and D-scan the plexes and assess local threats that is part of the hunt, if this is introduced then you will always know where to go.


last one is good for those who want to steal easy lp.

So you can use still 1 day alts with empty frigate to steal it.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#250 - 2012-10-23 01:31:46 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:


On a serious note, with the new system you can still keep yourself funded even at the lowest tier.



This ^.


https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#251 - 2012-10-23 01:33:14 UTC
Weitkunat wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Weitkunat wrote:
This is going to be awesome, especially after the proposed NPC changes. Faction warfare should be about (gasp!) warfare, not farming the system to hell and back for ISK.
Did I say otherwise?
Defensive much? I said your opinion of the CSM is wrong.
How would you know? Are they being secretly transparent with you alone?
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2012-10-23 01:35:43 UTC
Eli Green wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Jaime Gomes wrote:
Good to see csm supporting this.
They support everything CCP does. (In this case, the support is appropriate.) They are nothing, if not excellent cheerleaders.
Which makes you an extremely jealous person who didn't make the squad Lol
Yes, because all criticism automatically translates to jealousy.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#253 - 2012-10-23 01:36:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Iris Bravemount wrote:
Weitkunat wrote:
Iris Bravemount wrote:
Weitkunat wrote:
Omnicide Incarnate wrote:
So uh... I dont see anything thats going to make it any easier to make FW interesting when ur outnumbered 4 to 1

You should strive to outnumber your opponent in every engagement.


Oh well that's smart. Try to recruit people when the other guys can offer tier 5 LP rates and effortless reward...

An outnumbered force can still defeat their enemy with proper discipline and force multipliers.


It's not even about winning fights, it's just that offensive plexing will take ages and must be done in PvE ships, while defensive plexing will still be done in 2 days old alts and in no time.

Add the bad LP yield for the losing side and the awesome LP yield for the winning side to this, and you have an unsolvable situation for the losing side.

The system itself is flawed, not the players in it (on neither side).

Yeah, I'm not fond of easy defensive plexing... however if I understand it correctly once you farm the system to the point where it isn't contested anymore the payout is pretty poor.

Edit: I have no idea why you think offensive plexing has to be done in PVE ships....

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#254 - 2012-10-23 01:37:32 UTC
Omnicide Incarnate wrote:
So uh... I dont see anything thats going to make it any easier to make FW interesting when ur outnumbered 4 to 1
According to Hans (via his thinktank, Susan Black), you're just not trying hard enough. So stop whining and plex. Susan has tonnes of "statistics" that show that Amarr could be more successful than the Minmatar, if they'd only try.
David Campbell
Primas Custos
#255 - 2012-10-23 01:38:54 UTC
Alticus C Bear wrote:
Regarding the future changes

•We will be attempting to release two new features to the FW complexes that have been suggested many times by the FW community to increase PVP opportunities in complexes:

•Have plex capture timers count backwards to the default state when no players are contesting them
•Have plex capture timers visible to everyone in system so you can easily tell which plexes are close to being captured.

The first is a great change. The second is not.

It immediately gives away the position pilots in a system, not just that he/she is running the plex but that they are on the button and away from the warp in or if the timer is not running then they are probably at the warp in.

In a system with a pirate and a war target, sitting on the entrance and ship on scan but timer not running then probably the pirate or they are at the warp in.

It is too much intel and I am not even sure what the gain is? I expect to warp around and D-scan the plexes and assess local threats that is part of the hunt, if this is introduced then you will always know where to go.


These change still have the soon(tm) brand and with the change to the distance between the button and the warp in, it wont be an issue as you'll be able to be at the warp in or 30km behind the button and still run it.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#256 - 2012-10-23 01:39:18 UTC
Iris Bravemount wrote:
Weitkunat wrote:
Omnicide Incarnate wrote:
So uh... I dont see anything thats going to make it any easier to make FW interesting when ur outnumbered 4 to 1

You should strive to outnumber your opponent in every engagement.
Oh well that's smart. Try to recruit people when the other guys can offer tier 5 LP rates and effortless reward...
According to Hans, there is an endless supply of people just itching to join the losing side. Nobody ever leaves the Amarr.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2012-10-23 01:42:23 UTC
Iris Bravemount wrote:
It's not even about winning fights, it's just that offensive plexing will take ages and must be done in PvE ships, while defensive plexing will still be done in 2 days old alts and in no time.

Add the bad LP yield for the losing side and the awesome LP yield for the winning side to this, and you have an unsolvable situation for the losing side.

The system itself is flawed, not the players in it (on neither side).
Our CSM rep has never been other than Minmatar. So that's his only view of faction warfare. What he needs to know about the Amarr he gets from Susan Black (who happens to be Minmatar too), and Susan tells him that everything is a-okay with us ... we just have to organize more.
Weitkunat
Moira.
#258 - 2012-10-23 01:46:58 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Our CSM rep has never been other than Minmatar. So that's his only view of faction warfare. What he needs to know about the Amarr he gets from Susan Black (who happens to be Minmatar too), and Susan tells him that everything is a-okay with us ... we just have to organize more.


I suppose they should answer to your every beck and call...I'm sure that's the only thing that would make you happy.
Merritoff
Zod's Minions
#259 - 2012-10-23 01:48:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Merritoff
CCP is working via a variety of methods to bring the price of PLEX down, and FW has been identified as an area that can help the process along.


Can you elaborate on this comment in the blog? I am sure I am not only one with a ... limited period of vested interest.
Silence iKillYouu
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#260 - 2012-10-23 01:59:53 UTC
hopefully the LP farmers will be upset by this

EVE Mail me i dont check forums often.