Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So you don't expect anything to make nullsec bustle with life, so might as well support the one making nullsec bustle the least with life?

Okay, whatever. Knock yourself out.

No No No. Dont remove local ever. Maybe just remove d-scan or some other minor thing to make these crazy ppl happy.. Oh wait...

Or then just buy probing ship and you can find yourself a nice wh without local. Problem solved and everyone happy.. Yay..

If you are actually correct, which in my mind would defy logic, then I will be happy to admit it.

Local has forced all competitive conflicts into very specific lanes. I feel unleashing this will benefit the game.

I've no idea what kind of logic you're using here, but at this point I honestly can't be arsed to try to deduce what it is either.


Fixing null implies making the non-combat sides of null not suck bags of dicks, not aggravate the suckiness of living in nullsec. But if it'll shut "hurr remove local it will make nullsec awesome" proponents up once and for all, then whatever, remove local. It's not like CCP isn't well-known for making sketchy design choices. Dominion sov system, moongoo rebalance, PI introduction, hilariously abrupt removal of drone droppings, wardec system, mining barges and, soon, crimewatch 2.0 and killrights. Might as well remove local from the entire game, too, just to put the cherry on the cake.

I mean, what could possibly go wrong.

No, I don't care if it "bustles with life." I don't see why that should even be our goal.

Our goal should be to have risk, skill, and reward as evenly matched as possible with one another. Currently, that is not the case, because null sec has the highest rewarding resources, and does NOT have the highest risks to go along with them.

The proposed change is designed to balance risk and reward. If it does so, then it won't matter how many people leave or enter null sec as a result. The game will still be better off.


For instance, it might be the case that without local, very few alliances can maintain any stable empires in null sec, and people only hang out there 1/3 as often. But if there are resources there that are NEEDED to build ships and things, people will always still go there anyway, and take huge risks in doing so, in exchange for the largest rewards in the game. This would be just fine in my book. I don't give a lick of care if people spend most of their physical time in high or low sec, as long as they always have to seriously risk their asses (or very cleverly prepare) in order to make any really serious profit.

I didn't think you would. I'll bet the concept of having a nullsec which does bustle with life actually being a buff to roaming gangs is inconceivable to you, since it would mean more risk for you. It would mean there'd actually be an incentive for the people who live there to actually react to incursions by hostile gangs.


Oh really? Tell me about these "highest rewarding resources", and tell me about how dependent these resources are of local.

If you're going to even consider talking about moongoo, let me just cut you off before you start: moongoo has nothing to do with local. none. nada. zip. zilch. nope. nuh uh.


The proposed change of the OP is to remove local and make no other changes. You've handwaved something about making something "super rare and super awesome", which would make nullsec superawesome.

Problem is, it doesn't. There are escalations now which yield officer mods, and we're still looking at less than 1% of the population of deklein actually using it on a day to day basis, outside of fleet fights.


Local has absolutely nothing to do with an alliance "maintaining a stable empire in nullsec". I'll bet there's probably less than 100 people in total doing anything in the entire deklein region which involves "being in a vulnerable position for hours at a time", out of more than 10000 characters, i.e. less than 1% of the population which owns that space, and that's excluding all the other members of the CFC which I think has some access to rat there.

All that'd happen with no local is that this number would go down even further. The general impact on the space itself will be negligible, in fact it could probably be argued it would be beneficial to just remove some of the upgrades from a lot of the systems, and as such spend even less isk on the isk sinks which is the sov system.

Those who rat in deklein now are the 1% already.

I guess that's not good enough, it looks like some thinks it should be the 0.1%.

I agree that there aren't many such resources currently (a couple or ore types is about it, IIRC?). But that doesn't have to remain the case.

At the same time as local is removed, CCP could also, for example, introduce two new planet types. Ones that ONLY show up in null sec, and that provide the PI resources necessary to construct the last remaining types of commodities that are currently still NPC-provided only.

Ice belts could also easily be removed gradually from high/low sec, and put entirely (or at least in MUCH higher proportions) in null sec.

Rare ores + ice + remaining PI resources not accounted for yet = Enough, probably, to encourage a lot of risk taking to visit and stick around in null sec, no matter how dangerous it gets (the more dangerous, the higher the profits for those goods, and the more the reward, automatically). And a lot of people actually being in vulnerable positions a lot more often. If not, then add even more special resources to tweak (e.g. better rat drops, etc. Lots of possible options exist that would not invalidate or screw up people's existing investments)

^More or less addresses your other paragraphs in that same post, too.



Who exactly are these hypothetical people jumping over? If nobody but the super rich go to nullsec, then there wouldn't be anybody to avoid by using jump drives, and thus there wouldn't be any need to use jump drives... Your argument is self-contradicting. The only reason for people to act that way would be if low and null sec were already heavily populated by the "hoi paloi" and thus, by definition, not restricted to the rich...

Ah yes, let's make it so they have to combine the most mindnumbingly boring activity (mining) with another mindnumbingly boring activity (spam dscan/glare at dscan), and for excitement lets add the occasional unforeseen explosion as cloaked ships just suddenly pop up and blow them up and bugger off, which leads to yet another boring activity, reshipping and going back out and doing it all over again. Wooooooooooooo.


Ah, yes, PI. So once a week I'd be vulnerable for 5 seconds per POCO I had to unload.

My goodness, that'll solve all the nullsec woes. Foo diggity.


So take my paragraph on normal mining, and increase the emphasis on boring by about a factor of 1000.

Woo. YES! This definitely makes me want to move my iskmaking alt to null, so I can be endlessly farmed by cloaked gangs.

(no, it doesn't.)


Except it doesn't even get close to fixing the main problem with null, which is that there's not enough people living there. Not "it's not dangerous enough" or "hurr local means perfect intel" or "durr local protects bots" or whatever bullshit you people'll come up with to try to get CCP into making null a ganker's paradise, it's just plain and simple "there's not enough people living there".

Not that I expect you'll consider this line of thought, since more people would mean more risk for you.

Actually more people in null sec would mean less risk for me, since I never spend any time in null sec. If they left null, then all those highly capable pvpers and such would be entering where I hang out instead...

As to all of the mining stuff:

Cloaked ships can't just pop up and alpha you if you have, say, a logi escort, or are working in a team of miners. Or if you have a bubble, or decloaking jetcans positioned strategically nearby, or blah blah. Nor can they wear you down more slowly, if you have your own battle-ready ships nearby, too.

You seem to be suggesting that the only way to possibly mine is to go out solo in an undefended barge and just cross your fingers... That seems like actually a pretty dumb way to mine, in a world where intel doesn't come for free, and where the ores you are mining are worth quite a lot more (and thus attract even MORE theft)