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i am disappointed in null sec people. (TL:DR talking about local chat.) read first post.

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Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1441 - 2012-11-19 12:01:05 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

... just like private industry is always more efficient than governments.


If only that were true.

Speaking of lore...

The Pirate faction ammo should be more powerful than empire faction ammo. They are pirates after all, and not being bound by rules or regulation on war and munitions productions.

Yet, the ammo we get out of LP stores in nullsec is hands down worse than what people grind out safely in empire.

One thing is always certain, if CCP isn't gimping nullsec, the peanut gallery is begging them to hobble it some more.
Frying Doom
#1442 - 2012-11-19 12:01:27 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:


We'll have to add "local safaris" like we do sec safaris. Or when we did a ton of mining to get industry upgrades and grav sites when the drone poop nerf hit.


And there is nothing wrong with paying for stuff with isk. Especially if we can come up with more taxable activity for people in nullsec to engage in. I'd be fine with paying a bit more to stick local chat on the IHub. I already pay over 300mil a month in taxes. I wonder if any of the highsec afk ice miners pay anything close to that to get local and concord protection.

As I said paying isk for things is now kind of meaningless in Null, the sov map shows that quite well with alliances holding more space tan they could every fully utilise.

Actually having to be active within space to upgrade it and keep it would make Null more dynamic and also give smaller alliances that do not have trillions to back them the chance to hold and upgrade space in Null.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#1443 - 2012-11-19 12:03:47 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

... just like private industry is always more efficient than governments.


If only that were true.

Speaking of lore...

The Pirate faction ammo should be more powerful than empire faction ammo. They are pirates after all, and not being bound by rules or regulation on war and munitions productions.

Yet, the ammo we get out of LP stores in nullsec is hands down worse than what people grind out safely in empire.

One thing is always certain, if CCP isn't gimping nullsec, the peanut gallery is begging them to hobble it some more.

Yeah so many things in null need fixing, pirate ammo should be nastier, pirates generally don't sign treaties about the niceties of war.

Null really needs to be tough but rewarding, atm it is neither.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1444 - 2012-11-19 12:09:29 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:


We'll have to add "local safaris" like we do sec safaris. Or when we did a ton of mining to get industry upgrades and grav sites when the drone poop nerf hit.


And there is nothing wrong with paying for stuff with isk. Especially if we can come up with more taxable activity for people in nullsec to engage in. I'd be fine with paying a bit more to stick local chat on the IHub. I already pay over 300mil a month in taxes. I wonder if any of the highsec afk ice miners pay anything close to that to get local and concord protection.

As I said paying isk for things is now kind of meaningless in Null, the sov map shows that quite well with alliances holding more space tan they could every fully utilise.

Actually having to be active within space to upgrade it and keep it would make Null more dynamic and also give smaller alliances that do not have trillions to back them the chance to hold and upgrade space in Null.



I think we are on the same page, I'm just farther along to where that activity ends up as isk in a player's pocket. And that isk can be pooled and directed towards communal things, like stations, jump bridges, system upgrades or even a local module.

Isk isn't a goal, it is a means to an end and a flexible one at that. If a corp wants to do tons of activity, and invest it all in faction fit marauders, that is there choice. If they want to convert all that activity into having local and a decent station, that should be an option too. And it doesn't have to be actual isk printed out of thin air. If that activity is all mineral production, same thing. The minerals could be directed towards stations and services or ships and bullets.


And isk is not meaningless in nullsec. Sure, there is still diminishing marginal utility, but all our isk is still counted and doled out. We learned the hard way what happens when people actually stop paying attention to where the isk is going.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1445 - 2012-11-19 12:13:21 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
As I said paying isk for things is now kind of meaningless in Null, the sov map shows that quite well with alliances holding more space tan they could every fully utilise.

There's tons of reasons for doing that. First of all, it makes moons easier to hold (since you can cynojam it if you want to), second of all it makes it harder for an enemy to take your space, since there's more of it.

It may look empty and underutilized, but it still has value to an alliance.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Mirima Thurander
#1446 - 2012-11-19 13:12:07 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:


We'll have to add "local safaris" like we do sec safaris. Or when we did a ton of mining to get industry upgrades and grav sites when the drone poop nerf hit.


And there is nothing wrong with paying for stuff with isk. Especially if we can come up with more taxable activity for people in nullsec to engage in. I'd be fine with paying a bit more to stick local chat on the IHub. I already pay over 300mil a month in taxes. I wonder if any of the highsec afk ice miners pay anything close to that to get local and concord protection.

As I said paying isk for things is now kind of meaningless in Null, the sov map shows that quite well with alliances holding more space tan they could every fully utilise.

Actually having to be active within space to upgrade it and keep it would make Null more dynamic and also give smaller alliances that do not have trillions to back them the chance to hold and upgrade space in Null.



I think we are on the same page, I'm just farther along to where that activity ends up as isk in a player's pocket. And that isk can be pooled and directed towards communal things, like stations, jump bridges, system upgrades or even a local module.

Isk isn't a goal, it is a means to an end and a flexible one at that. If a corp wants to do tons of activity, and invest it all in faction fit marauders, that is there choice. If they want to convert all that activity into having local and a decent station, that should be an option too. And it doesn't have to be actual isk printed out of thin air. If that activity is all mineral production, same thing. The minerals could be directed towards stations and services or ships and bullets.


And isk is not meaningless in nullsec. Sure, there is still diminishing marginal utility, but all our isk is still counted and doled out. We learned the hard way what happens when people actually stop paying attention to where the isk is going.
u have to remove local before u can buy a local.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#1447 - 2012-11-19 16:19:03 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
stupid stuff

Mirima Thurander wrote:
stupid stuff

You two really give WH residents a bad name.
Andski wrote:
ah so you live in a wormhole -naturally i'm going to take this opportunity and point out that wormholes have 1/20th the PvP of nullsec

WH's have 5% of the population of Eve, and 1/20th the pvp of null...

Wheres the problem?
Andski wrote:
and would be much improved if we had the ability to bridge fleets into them, along with dropping titans and supercarriers, also introduce wormhole stabilizers so that we can bring larger fleets inside, wormholes are clearly too safe


So WH's can enjoy the same broken mechanics as Nullsec? Why the F would anyone want that?

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1448 - 2012-11-19 18:54:04 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Andski wrote:
and would be much improved if we had the ability to bridge fleets into them, along with dropping titans and supercarriers, also introduce wormhole stabilizers so that we can bring larger fleets inside, wormholes are clearly too safe


So WH's can enjoy the same broken mechanics as Nullsec? Why the F would anyone want that?

He's just demonstrating how the reason wormholers reject those mechanics outright is the same reason we reject wormhole local outright.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#1449 - 2012-11-19 19:37:30 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Andski wrote:
and would be much improved if we had the ability to bridge fleets into them, along with dropping titans and supercarriers, also introduce wormhole stabilizers so that we can bring larger fleets inside, wormholes are clearly too safe


So WH's can enjoy the same broken mechanics as Nullsec? Why the F would anyone want that?

He's just demonstrating how the reason wormholers reject those mechanics outright is the same reason we reject wormhole local outright.

/facepalm...

and I hit it hook, line and sinker....

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1450 - 2012-11-19 19:38:30 UTC
For shame.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#1451 - 2012-11-19 19:40:28 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Andski wrote:
and would be much improved if we had the ability to bridge fleets into them, along with dropping titans and supercarriers, also introduce wormhole stabilizers so that we can bring larger fleets inside, wormholes are clearly too safe


So WH's can enjoy the same broken mechanics as Nullsec? Why the F would anyone want that?

He's just demonstrating how the reason wormholers reject those mechanics outright is the same reason we reject wormhole local outright.

/facepalm...

and I hit it hook, line and sinker....


Set the hook and reel.

I find it helps to intermittently raise the pole and lower it to help manage slack during reeling.

You might need a net.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#1452 - 2012-11-19 19:47:15 UTC
73 pages later...

wumbo
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1453 - 2012-11-19 19:58:17 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Raptors Mole wrote:
Less risk than Null sec? If it is already less risky than null sec, with no local - the impact should be minimal.

Sigh, I meant less risky in WHs after local was removed from null.


AKA - "Sigh, you read what I wrote.. not what I meant."
Clear communicator is clearly communicating clearly.

Still waiting for the example of when local was delayed in the manner we are speaking.
MasterEnt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1454 - 2012-11-19 19:59:57 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:

1) Hot pan = burn. - Tested
2) Water = wet, - Tested
3) Unrelated result = ? - Untested


Except we have plenty of other examples of nullsec being made harder, or other regions getting stuff that is better than nullsec, to compare.

Anoms got nerfed, so people went to do highsec L4's
1 gimped station per system, so most people do research/industry in highsec
FW got buffed to be more profitable than nullsec ratting, tons of us started farming FW
Drone alloys were removed, highsec now has the best isk/hr ores



Sure, but still different.
One does not equal the other.

Unless of course at the end, you guys just aren't pro-risk as you keep claiming to be.
Maybe The Mittins needs to find a new crew to roll with.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#1455 - 2012-11-19 20:22:11 UTC
This thread loosing all interest after all pro "remove local" arguments being demonstrated as a pure lack of imagination or knowledge of game mechanics, should I, good sirs take my reverence and say goodbye.

o7

brb
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1456 - 2012-11-19 20:39:38 UTC
7/10

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1457 - 2012-11-19 21:19:37 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:

1) Hot pan = burn. - Tested
2) Water = wet, - Tested
3) Unrelated result = ? - Untested


Except we have plenty of other examples of nullsec being made harder, or other regions getting stuff that is better than nullsec, to compare.

Anoms got nerfed, so people went to do highsec L4's
1 gimped station per system, so most people do research/industry in highsec
FW got buffed to be more profitable than nullsec ratting, tons of us started farming FW
Drone alloys were removed, highsec now has the best isk/hr ores



Sure, but still different.
One does not equal the other.

Unless of course at the end, you guys just aren't pro-risk as you keep claiming to be.
Maybe The Mittins needs to find a new crew to roll with.



Sorry, but no one is pro-risk. No one really wants risk for the sake of risk. This even applies to the no-local advocates because they often argue that delayed local will make it easier for them to infiltrate nullsec and move around with less risk.
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#1458 - 2012-11-19 22:49:59 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

... just like private industry is always more efficient than governments.


If only that were true.

Speaking of lore...

The Pirate faction ammo should be more powerful than empire faction ammo. They are pirates after all, and not being bound by rules or regulation on war and munitions productions.



By that logic, Somalia should have the best Navy on the planet.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1459 - 2012-11-19 23:11:29 UTC
Karrl Tian wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:

... just like private industry is always more efficient than governments.


If only that were true.

Speaking of lore...

The Pirate faction ammo should be more powerful than empire faction ammo. They are pirates after all, and not being bound by rules or regulation on war and munitions productions.



By that logic, Somalia should have the best Navy on the planet.


Considering that it took the combined effort of several first world naval powers to beat them back, they must have something going for them.

After all, these are guys that can turn fishing boats, stolen yachts and hijacked freighters into tools of war and plunder. And there is no doubt they have less reservations on how they conduct warfare than the professional navies..



In terms of in Eve stuff, the pirate faction ships are considered some of the best ships in the game and have prices to match. I find it odd that factions that can produce powerhouses like the Cynabal and Bhaalgorn and the most sought after implant sets make the most anemic faction ammo.
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#1460 - 2012-11-20 01:30:57 UTC
Moved from General Discussion.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]