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i am disappointed in null sec people. (TL:DR talking about local chat.) read first post.

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Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#1101 - 2012-11-18 01:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Read this post and tell me dose this not cover all the bases and STILL remove the free instant knowing if that solo guys red or not.

Requiring more alts to sit cloaked on gates to visually inspect each jump is not "emergent game-play" and would, in fact and practicality, result in *fewer and fewer* targets at all....

This mechanic would *only* favor large groups that have the numbers to be able to afford slots/alts to sit on gates. And if you think they wouldn't, you have no clue about the tenacity (Ok, I'll say it) and the skill of players who make their in game time in Null sec.

WH's work because there aren't static gates/routes in and out - you *never* know where your "gate" is going to show up, you can't place 100% bookmarks around them and they aren't permanent.
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
No, the WHers would come out and take over. We already know how to operate without local.

We already have space in 0.0, without going to Nullsec... Tell me again why we want to go to Sov 0.0?

tl;dr: If we wanted to, we would already be there.
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Scan &Scan ad infinitum...

It's actually *not* that bad when you get understand Wormhole mechanics well enough. Also playing with friends (where have I heard that before?) makes it much better.

Last but not least (hardest part for me to believe, really) some people *LIKE* Scanning! Shocked .

So it's not quite *that* bad, but yes, you do learn to depend on your D-Scan and keep your situation awareness up (at least, that's my experience).

MasterEnt wrote:
LOL 55 pages of this.. can pretty much be summed up here:

Pro Delayed Local Camp
- Makes things a tad more interesting and risky
- Use teamwork to replace it

Con Delayed Local Camp
- Can't solo bear
- Can't be bothered to use probes and Dscan
- Can't be bothered to work as a team because some aspects are not "fun"
- If you don't agree, you have never lived in null
- If you don't have the right corp tag, you never have lived in null
- If you don't agree you are stupid
- If you don't agree you are not reading correctly


Lets face it, some (individuals) of the big alliances here not wanting to remove their magic intel box blame everyone else for not understanding them or blame CCP for not making conditions right. You guys own the space, are given the gift to make what you want out of it and have managed to turn it into a vast empty wasteland that for some reason, does not seem to make to profit you wish it did, despite the ownership of lucrative moons and planets and not many people around to challenge your daily activities in most systems.

Pathetic and delightfully delicious.

/sarcasm
Dam, must've missed the Scope's occupation of WH's while I've been AFK.
/sarcasm

You sir, are wrong.

vOv

I can't do anything about that, but it's the truth.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1102 - 2012-11-18 01:26:31 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
It's actually *not* that bad when you get understand Wormhole mechanics well enough.

No, I understand that. I was more referring to what you'd have to do to be even remotely safe without local in nullsec, and that's not even counting the fact that anoms are often not in dscan range of gates and therefore you won't be able to detect that cloaky hot dropper until it's too late.

Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Also playing with friends (where have I heard that before?) makes it much better.

Sure, if there's enough isk gained from the PVE activities where everybody can make a reasonable profit.

Asuri Kinnes wrote:
So it's not quite *that* bad, but yes, you do learn to depend on your D-Scan and keep your situation awareness up (at least, that's my experience).

The only real difference between WH d-scanning and local in nullsec is that one requires you to press a button.
Both of them require you to pay attention.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1103 - 2012-11-18 01:29:34 UTC
Actually, it's more like this:
Pro WH local camp:
- Sucks at ganking
- Tries to petition CCP to cover up for this lack
- Continually ignores differences which make quite a difference (since, obviously, this is why they're pushing for the change)

Con WH local camp:
- Continually tells the pro wh local camp about the differences
- Continually tells the pro wh local camp that increasing effort in null for the same reward will make more people either move to whs proper, hisec for l4s etc or lowsec for fw

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#1104 - 2012-11-18 01:30:34 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
It's actually *not* that bad when you get understand Wormhole mechanics well enough.

No, I understand that.

Ah, my bad - I thought you were responding directly about living in WH's.

apologies.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1105 - 2012-11-18 01:42:09 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
LOL 55 pages of this.. can pretty much be summed up here:

Pro Delayed Local Camp
- Makes things a tad more interesting and risky



Actually, this is completely false, and is more inline with the Con of "- If you don't agree you are stupid".


How many times do we, the people who actually live in nullsec, have to explain that the reason you can't find any ratters to gank is because most of the guys in you see on you short little trips to nullsec are PvP alts.

Most nullsecers keep there money making alts where the money is. They are day trading in Jita, afk drone boat mission running in highsec, grinding FW in lowsec, ninja looting sleeper sites in w-space. They used to do incursions and research agents before they got nerfed. We gank freighters in highsec because that is where the freighters full of loot are.


It won't make it any more risky. If anything it will make it more boring because you'll have to go through all this probing/scanning crap to just figure out if there is a fleet to pick a fight with. It will mean way less risk for anything fitting a covops cloak. It sure as hell won't be interesting because all the people who actually live in nullsec know what the extremely predictable result would be. Even more people give up on undocking and earning isk in nullsec.

We are already, right now, living the results of high risk for little reward.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1106 - 2012-11-18 01:44:32 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
words


so why do wormholes have approximately 1/4 the population of nullsec but 1/20th the PvP losses?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#1107 - 2012-11-18 02:17:20 UTC
Andski wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
words


so why do wormholes have approximately 1/4 the population of nullsec but 1/20th the PvP losses?


Clearly it's because scan is so easy to use and fights so easy to find, duh nerd.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1108 - 2012-11-18 02:25:03 UTC
Andski wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
words


so why do wormholes have approximately 1/4 the population of nullsec but 1/20th the PvP losses?

The more useful metrics I gave 26 pages ago was that for every 7 kills in a given system in nullsec, there was 1 for any given system in w-space, and that for every 2 kills for a given player in nullsec, a given player in w-space has1.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Mirima Thurander
#1109 - 2012-11-18 02:46:55 UTC
Bah more pages of

THE WORLDS ENDING IN 2012!!!!!!!


O my bad its just fact less rumor mongering that if null doesn't have a 100% accurate local chat it will die.

Here's a full run down of this thread.

I said remove local u said with out local you can't find any one.

I get that point and give a counter idea reducing locals Effectiveness by 50% aka no more knowing if that guys hostile the moment he enters system. I even gave u an idea for tracking large fleets.


U still cry for 40 more pages saying how it will kill null.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1110 - 2012-11-18 02:54:48 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Bah more pages of

THE WORLDS ENDING IN 2012!!!!!!!


O my bad its just fact less rumor mongering that if null doesn't have a 100% accurate local chat it will die.

Here's a full run down of this thread.

I said remove local u said with out local you can't find any one.

I get that point and give a counter idea reducing locals Effectiveness by 50% aka no more knowing if that guys hostile the moment he enters system. I even gave u an idea for tracking large fleets.


U still cry for 40 more pages saying how it will kill null.


what?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1111 - 2012-11-18 02:55:45 UTC
It's not "the world's ending", it's us telling you exactly what'll happen. It won't be a dramatic change, since null is already pretty depopulated as it is, but the fact of the matter is, WH style local will depopulate null even further, and it will have a detrimental effect on anything other than space jousting over stationary objects with timers.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1112 - 2012-11-18 03:05:52 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
It's not "the world's ending", it's us telling you exactly what'll happen. It won't be a dramatic change, since null is already pretty depopulated as it is, but the fact of the matter is, WH style local will depopulate null even further, and it will have a detrimental effect on anything other than space jousting over stationary objects with timers.

I love stationary objects with timers <3

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#1113 - 2012-11-18 03:08:54 UTC
Andski wrote:

what?


I have no clue sir, it appears to be trying to communicate.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1114 - 2012-11-18 03:13:04 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Andski wrote:

what?


I have no clue sir, it appears to be trying to communicate.

Is it called V'Ger?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1115 - 2012-11-18 03:21:00 UTC
I see the establishment is still defending their free intel tool.

Sad too. Once upon a time people outside of highsec wanted features that would bring more PVP. Now they want easy mode like high sec.



Bring back DEEEEP Space!
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#1116 - 2012-11-18 03:25:46 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I see the establishment is still defending their free intel tool.

Sad too. Once upon a time people outside of highsec wanted features that would bring more PVP. Now they want easy mode like high sec.





We have plenty of reasons to fight and options to do so already. What we would like is for the individual pilot to be able to fund his fighting and his fun from the space he owns without it becoming even more of a barren wasteland than it already is.

I took part in a six way brawl today where all of the sides were shooting at eachother. What have you done?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1117 - 2012-11-18 03:26:14 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I see the establishment is still defending their free intel tool.

Sad too. Once upon a time people outside of highsec wanted features that would bring more PVP. Now they want easy mode like high sec.

Now I don't know about you, but I would've thought getting more people into nullsec would've been preferable to driving more out.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1118 - 2012-11-18 03:27:38 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I see the establishment is still defending their free intel tool.

Sad too. Once upon a time people outside of highsec wanted features that would bring more PVP. Now they want easy mode like high sec.

Yeah more pvp when we go roaming and there's no one because everyone is in highsec.

Well, at least IRC will fight us, then again they might just roll up and do their mining in highsec. That would be a disaster, no more CSAA ops with all their pets coming to fight.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1119 - 2012-11-18 03:28:35 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I see the establishment is still defending their free intel tool.

Sad too. Once upon a time people outside of highsec wanted features that would bring more PVP. Now they want easy mode like high sec.




Why are there so many idiots who don't even bother reading any of the actual opposition and recognizing they have very good reasons for opposing this idea?

Why, even they do read the opposition, do they completely ignore or disregard our arguments?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1120 - 2012-11-18 03:29:49 UTC
heh IRC having pets

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat