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i am disappointed in null sec people. (TL:DR talking about local chat.) read first post.

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Mirima Thurander
#461 - 2012-10-28 00:56:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirima Thurander
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Let me get all this.information right.

We.can.remove your null local.if.we.make the.rats pay out 20mil isk per rat?

Ccp.null has.spoken make.rats pay out 20mil per kill and remove local.

It's almost as if you've no concept of just how bad the monetary inflation is in eve, yet wants to make it even worse. vOv

It would.seam.from the way you two are.acting it would.only be fair if there no local u.would have to.spend so much time defending your space/dieing to should be fine.

So now your saying even with no local u could.still make a ton of isks?

Make up your mind.

You are a moron. What do you think happens when you make rats pay out 20x more?

It's obvious you're either monumentally inane or a pretty damn bad troll who knows no subtlety.

Yes.that post was..troll just so.it's clear but that's IS how his argument is sounding.

I.can't help but point out how bat **** insane his argument is.

But if it helps any yea we could.use more.reasons to live in null and high sec could use a few rounds with the nurf bat.

BUT null sec.local.is.still a.stupid.safety net.


PS Still hating my phone.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#462 - 2012-10-28 00:58:17 UTC
"It's all good guys, I was only committing another strawman"

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jeremy Soikutsu
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#463 - 2012-10-28 01:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Soikutsu
Mirima Thurander wrote:

Din ding ding there's your problem get that big all alliance to pay people for.doing that.

Getting payed to do a gate camp? Yes please.


Mirima Thurander wrote:

And talking about pay outs like these alliance can't afford to pay there scouts they afford to pay ever other people.

U really are a troll. That post proves it.


I thought you were full of **** before, but now I know for sure.

What you're telling us, IRC specifically the numbers will be different for other people but it will be similar, is to dedicate at least half of the people who are online at any one time to sitting on their nuts at a gate doing pretty much nothing for hours at a time. You also suggest to pay them with money we don't have and will especially not have since all these people aren't making any money for us. Also note that not every Alliance is sitting on stacks on Tech or R64s, in fact most of them aren't.

I think it's been made pretty clear that you don't know **** about null, and you can be safely ignored by all.

"Of course you would choose the fun, but you don't lead a relevant entity which has allies." - Colonel Xaven
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#464 - 2012-10-28 01:04:50 UTC
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:

Din ding ding there's your problem get that big all alliance to pay people for.doing that.

Getting payed to do a gate camp? Yes please.


Mirima Thurander wrote:

And talking about pay outs like these alliance can't afford to pay there scouts they afford to pay ever other people.

U really are a troll. That post proves it.


I thought you were full of **** before, but now I know for sure.

What you're telling us, IRC specifically the numbers will be different for other people but it will be similar, is to dedicate at least half of the people who are online at any one time to sitting on their nuts at a gate doing pretty much nothing for hours at a time. You also suggest to pay them with money we don't have and will especially not have since all these people aren't making any money for us. Also note that not every Alliance is sitting on stacks on Tech or R64s, in fact most of them aren't.

I think it's been made pretty clear that you don't know **** about null, and you can be safely ignored by all.

They want to nerf the moon mining, so don't worry about that. The rest of nullsec will also become less valuable.

IRC, I seem to recall you camping people in when they foolishly go into a dead end system in Cobalt Edge...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mirima Thurander
#465 - 2012-10-28 01:05:47 UTC
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:

Din ding ding there's your problem get that big all alliance to pay people for.doing that.

Getting payed to do a gate camp? Yes please.


Mirima Thurander wrote:

And talking about pay outs like these alliance can't afford to pay there scouts they afford to pay ever other people.

U really are a troll. That post proves it.


I thought you were full of **** before, but now I know for sure.

What your telling us, IRC specifically the numbers will be different for other people but it will be similar, is to dedicate at least half of the people who are online at any one time to sitting on their nuts at a gate doing pretty much nothing for hours at a time. You also suggest to pay them with money we don't have and will especially not have since all these people aren't making any money for us. Also note that not every Alliance is sitting on stacks on Tech or R64s, in fact most of them aren't.

I think it's been made pretty clear that you don't know **** about null, and you can be safely ignored by all.

I'm sorry where we talking about gate camps? Did u know some people think sitting at a gate waiting to shoot.people is.fun.

Go take a.trip past the low-null gates I'm 100% sure there will be a camp there.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#466 - 2012-10-28 01:06:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
"It's all good guys, I was only committing another strawman"

It's a whole army of strawmen. Eventually you will founder in their blob of bad posts.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#467 - 2012-10-28 01:10:10 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
It's almost like you haven't seen the "IF YOU NERF HISEC WE'LL JUST QUIT" reaction even if I barely suggested increasing the manufacturing costs, you wouldn't be saying that. But hey, go ahead, start up a "nerf hisec income" thread and see how many hisec pubbies will come out of the woodwork with "we'll just quit".

In all honesty I would not mind a small handful of people who are well versed in all areas of space and put together a very detailed and extensive idea on a complete revamp of risk vs. income in all space.

A group who does not have a personal agenda. You the whole, "Nerf everything I'm flying/doing and buff everything I'm flying/doing!!!"

Oh well.



If these no-local threads had an OP that factored in risk/reward, they wouldn't get dogpiled so fast.

But that isn't what happens.

Instead, we get the same anecdotes about how OP can't find anything to kill in nullsec. Never mind that the reason is the OP sucks at PvP, because plenty of people get killed in nullsec everyday. Also, they never factor in how few targets there are in nullsec, because there is very little to do there besides throw big fleets at each other. The ratters that are out there can only make decent isk in ships totally designed around killing particular rats. Of course they run away, because the ship they are in are usually bad at general PvP.

So basically, OP is pissed because we use various intel gathering tool to earn enough isk to bother living nullsec, rather than happily make less isk letting OP kill us at will. And we are also cowards because we aren't stupid enough to engage random players in our gimped ratting ships. It is a short sighted change to the game that will make nullsec more interesting to day-trppers short term, and leave nullsec a barren waste long term.

Really, what do they expect to happen? That nullsec dwellers will just put up with the loses. People who can live with no-local will just move to wormholes and make more isk for their effort. Everyone else will move to empire, where they can make about the same income but with a lot less losses. And nullsec will still be owned by huge alliances, because that is what it takes to deal with the current sov mechanics, and people will still show up for big fleets as that is one of Eve's unique selling points.
Jeremy Soikutsu
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#468 - 2012-10-28 01:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Soikutsu
Mirima Thurander wrote:

I'm sorry where we talking about gate camps? Did u know some people think sitting at a gate waiting to shoot.people is.fun.

Go take a.trip past the low-null gates I'm 100% sure there will be a camp there.


Yeah because choke point and deep null gates see the same amount and type of traffic.

"Of course you would choose the fun, but you don't lead a relevant entity which has allies." - Colonel Xaven
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#469 - 2012-10-28 01:11:25 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
It's almost like you haven't seen the "IF YOU NERF HISEC WE'LL JUST QUIT" reaction even if I barely suggested increasing the manufacturing costs, you wouldn't be saying that. But hey, go ahead, start up a "nerf hisec income" thread and see how many hisec pubbies will come out of the woodwork with "we'll just quit".

In all honesty I would not mind a small handful of people who are well versed in all areas of space and put together a very detailed and extensive idea on a complete revamp of risk vs. income in all space.

A group who does not have a personal agenda. You the whole, "Nerf everything I'm flying/doing and buff everything I'm flying/doing!!!"

Oh well.



If these no-local threads had an OP that factored in risk/reward, they wouldn't get dogpiled so fast.

But that isn't what happens.

Instead, we get the same anecdotes about how OP can't find anything to kill in nullsec. Never mind that the reason is the OP sucks at PvP, because plenty of people get killed in nullsec everyday. Also, they never factor in how few targets there are in nullsec, because there is very little to do there besides throw big fleets at each other. The ratters that are out there can only make decent isk in ships totally designed around killing particular rats. Of course they run away, because the ship they are in are usually bad at general PvP.

So basically, OP is pissed because we use various intel gathering tool to earn enough isk to bother living nullsec, rather than happily make less isk letting OP kill us at will. And we are also cowards because we aren't stupid enough to engage random players in our gimped ratting ships. It is a short sighted change to the game that will make nullsec more interesting to day-trppers short term, and leave nullsec a barren waste long term.

Really, what do they expect to happen? That nullsec dwellers will just put up with the loses. People who can live with no-local will just move to wormholes and make more isk for their effort. Everyone else will move to empire, where they can make about the same income but with a lot less losses. And nullsec will still be owned by huge alliances, because that is what it takes to deal with the current sov mechanics, and people will still show up for big fleets as that is one of Eve's unique selling points.

...

They should *also* nerf blobbing.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#470 - 2012-10-28 01:16:24 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Yes.that post was..troll just so.it's clear but that's IS how his argument is sounding.

I.can't help but point out how bat **** insane his argument is.

Let's have a look at my arguments so far then:

1) We can't increase nullsec payouts past its current level, because the monetary inflation in eve is pretty goddamn bad.
2) We can't decrease hisec payouts because hisec pubbies are so used to the current hisec payouts that they'll cry bloody murder if anyone even thinks about doing anything to L4s
3) Most people who live in nullsec have moved their isk-making alts into hisec, because hisec pays out so well compared to nullsec, especially when comparing effort levels, that hisec makes sense to use instead
4) Removing local, without replacing it with a similarly useful mechanism, or by effectively requiring that at least 1 person watch each entrance (gate, wormhole) and have other people spread around the entire solar system so you have perfect dscan coverage in case of people logging in (and, of course, cloaked ships don't show up so you don't actually know if it's safe to do anything), will only exacerbate the current problem of nullsec being more or less a complete wasteland.
5) If people absolutely wanted to live somewhere where that sort of effort was required, why wouldn't they just move to WHs, where the payouts are actually scaled up to compensate for the extra effort and inherent risk?

Now, which part of that is in any way, shape or form "bat **** insane"?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#471 - 2012-10-28 01:20:25 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
It's almost like you haven't seen the "IF YOU NERF HISEC WE'LL JUST QUIT" reaction even if I barely suggested increasing the manufacturing costs, you wouldn't be saying that. But hey, go ahead, start up a "nerf hisec income" thread and see how many hisec pubbies will come out of the woodwork with "we'll just quit".

In all honesty I would not mind a small handful of people who are well versed in all areas of space and put together a very detailed and extensive idea on a complete revamp of risk vs. income in all space.

A group who does not have a personal agenda. You the whole, "Nerf everything I'm flying/doing and buff everything I'm flying/doing!!!"

Oh well.



If these no-local threads had an OP that factored in risk/reward, they wouldn't get dogpiled so fast.

But that isn't what happens.

Instead, we get the same anecdotes about how OP can't find anything to kill in nullsec. Never mind that the reason is the OP sucks at PvP, because plenty of people get killed in nullsec everyday. Also, they never factor in how few targets there are in nullsec, because there is very little to do there besides throw big fleets at each other. The ratters that are out there can only make decent isk in ships totally designed around killing particular rats. Of course they run away, because the ship they are in are usually bad at general PvP.

So basically, OP is pissed because we use various intel gathering tool to earn enough isk to bother living nullsec, rather than happily make less isk letting OP kill us at will. And we are also cowards because we aren't stupid enough to engage random players in our gimped ratting ships. It is a short sighted change to the game that will make nullsec more interesting to day-trppers short term, and leave nullsec a barren waste long term.

Really, what do they expect to happen? That nullsec dwellers will just put up with the loses. People who can live with no-local will just move to wormholes and make more isk for their effort. Everyone else will move to empire, where they can make about the same income but with a lot less losses. And nullsec will still be owned by huge alliances, because that is what it takes to deal with the current sov mechanics, and people will still show up for big fleets as that is one of Eve's unique selling points.

...

They should *also* nerf blobbing.



The "blob" is something that even CCP is smart enough not to nerf. When the vast majority of realtime PvP games are only in the low double digits, "1000+ player PvP" is a nice sound-bite sized thing to brag about. If anything, they let it get out of hand with super cap proliferation.
Mirima Thurander
#472 - 2012-10-28 01:23:29 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
various intel gathering tool to


Various? Ha 1 doesn't = various.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Mirima Thurander
#473 - 2012-10-28 01:33:30 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Yes.that post was..troll just so.it's clear but that's IS how his argument is sounding.

I.can't help but point out how bat **** insane his argument is.

Let's have a look at my arguments so far then:

1) We can't increase nullsec payouts past its current level, because the monetary inflation in eve is pretty goddamn bad.
2) We can't decrease hisec payouts because hisec pubbies are so used to the current hisec payouts that they'll cry bloody murder if anyone even thinks about doing anything to L4s
3) Most people who live in nullsec have moved their isk-making alts into hisec, because hisec pays out so well compared to nullsec, especially when comparing effort levels, that hisec makes sense to use instead
4) Removing local, without replacing it with a similarly useful mechanism, or by effectively requiring that at least 1 person watch each entrance (gate, wormhole) and have other people spread around the entire solar system so you have perfect dscan coverage in case of people logging in (and, of course, cloaked ships don't show up so you don't actually know if it's safe to do anything), will only exacerbate the current problem of nullsec being more or less a complete wasteland.
5) If people absolutely wanted to live somewhere where that sort of effort was required, why wouldn't they just move to WHs, where the payouts are actually scaled up to compensate for the extra effort and inherent risk?

Now, which part of that is in any way, shape or form "bat **** insane"?


So your happy with no action.

I would.rather ccp grow some balls and fix what needs fixing.

And if people don't like how ccps doing it there free to go play one of the other space ship mmos (if there where any)

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#474 - 2012-10-28 01:36:22 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
So your happy with no action.

Nope, but CCP has painted themselves into a corner they don't seem to be able to get out of.

Mirima Thurander wrote:
I would.rather ccp grow some balls and fix what needs fixing.

Good thing they're doing exactly that, then, what with them making hisec even safer and nullsec ever shittier to live in.

Oh wait, no, hang on a minute, they're "fixing" the game in the wrong direction. Oh well.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#475 - 2012-10-28 01:54:45 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
various intel gathering tool to


Various? Ha 1 doesn't = various.


No, it is various. It is more than 1.

Local just tells you if some one is in systems.

Player ran intel channels will (hopefully) tell you what they are flying and if they are notorious hostiles.

The in-game character info gives a lot of useful info too.

Evekill and the like will tell you if these players have any serious PvP history, what they tend to fly and what their typical targets are. Very handy for when you want to set up a trap.


The proper application of all these tools is what keeps me relatively safe when I rat and haul cargo. I would relate some funny anecdotes about players who tried to rely only on local, but I doubt you have enough nullsec experience to get the jokes.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#476 - 2012-10-28 01:55:38 UTC
Did they get tackled at the belt?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Mirima Thurander
#477 - 2012-10-28 02:07:29 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
various intel gathering tool to


Various? Ha 1 doesn't = various.


No, it is various. It is more than 1.

Local just tells you if some one is in systems.

Player ran intel channels will (hopefully) tell you what they are flying and if they are notorious hostiles.

The in-game character info gives a lot of useful info too.

Evekill and the like will tell you if these players have any serious PvP history, what they tend to fly and what their typical targets are. Very handy for when you want to set up a trap.


The proper application of all these tools is what keeps me relatively safe when I rat and haul cargo. I would relate some funny anecdotes about players who tried to rely only on local, but I doubt you have enough nullsec experience to get the jokes.


All that falls apart if there's no local to let you know he is in system or not.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#478 - 2012-10-28 02:34:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Shepard Wong Ogeko
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
various intel gathering tool to


Various? Ha 1 doesn't = various.


No, it is various. It is more than 1.

Local just tells you if some one is in systems.

Player ran intel channels will (hopefully) tell you what they are flying and if they are notorious hostiles.

The in-game character info gives a lot of useful info too.

Evekill and the like will tell you if these players have any serious PvP history, what they tend to fly and what their typical targets are. Very handy for when you want to set up a trap.


The proper application of all these tools is what keeps me relatively safe when I rat and haul cargo. I would relate some funny anecdotes about players who tried to rely only on local, but I doubt you have enough nullsec experience to get the jokes.


All that falls apart if there's no local to let you know he is in system or not.


Except for all the examples people throw around of local replacements. Scouts on gates, existing d-scan or some hypothetical new d-scan, system scanner or local as an ihub upgrade. What ever. Feel free to keep proving how little you know. We'll keep pointing out the holes in your ideas and you'll keep crying, because deep down your problem isn't local. Your problem is that you suck at Eve and can't seem to get on the killmail of any of the thousands of players killed in nullsec everyday.

Local isn't our crutch. It is you lame-ass excuse. If only there was no local, and you could just park a recon or stealth bomber in an anomaly and score easy kills all day every day.

If we have to work for our rats, rocks and planet/moon goo by dodging bumbling idiots like you, then you should be expected to put some effort into scoring the kills. Plenty of other people do it, so what is your real excuse?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#479 - 2012-10-28 02:52:46 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Except for all the examples people throw around of local replacements. Scouts on gates, existing d-scan or some hypothetical new d-scan, system scanner or local as an ihub upgrade. What ever. Feel free to keep proving how little you know. We'll keep pointing out the holes in your ideas and you'll keep crying, because deep down your problem isn't local. Your problem is that you suck at Eve and can't seem to get on the killmail of any of the thousands of players killed in nullsec everyday.

Local isn't our crutch. It is you lame-ass excuse. If only there was no local, and you could just park a recon or stealth bomber in an anomaly and score easy kills all day every day.

If we have to work for our rats, rocks and planet/moon goo by dodging bumbling idiots like you, then you should be expected to put some effort into scoring the kills. Plenty of other people do it, so what is your real excuse?

Look, what about if we just feed him a few ratting drake kills. Would that help?

Of course not.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ascendic
Polaris Syndicate
#480 - 2012-10-28 19:34:09 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Do any of you know why local even was part of the game to start with?

To provide a social option like an irc chat room. But eve has moved beyond the need.of.a.local chat room with corp channels and private channels.vents and ts. Mumble jabber and skype.

There's no need for it and ever one that's defended it has used the same old dry responses hidden behind a wall of text and boils down to local makes me safe so I want to keep it.

That's the resion it needs to be removed from null. Your not safe in less you can make it safe.
Why do you feel the need for Instant Intel?

Why do 90% of all null sec dwellers run and dock as soon as they see a mute jump In system?

Any argument that has I use local for x, and that reasion ends up being something besides.talking to.friends Is a unintended use of local.

So make all you arguments you want local.was ment for chating NOT as a intel tool.


The big point everyone seems to be missing is the fact you cant SHUT DOWN entrances to your space in nullsec like you can in WH space. It is pretty funny how you think you are all elite and tough when all you do is collapse any entrance that appears to prevent you from being invaded.

Yea we can remove local from nullsec sure. But at the same time wormhole space will have static wormholes and allow cynos.

What? That's not fair you say? Orly? Well that puts WH space on the same field as nullsec. Why are you crying so much? Now who needs to HTFU?

F*cking idiot.