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so, eve is getting some heat from the gaming industry, 2 new space games from major players coming

First post
Author
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#101 - 2012-10-23 13:48:10 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:


Look up what's being added to the upcoming retribution expansion details to see if they're adding anything, even if it's only a single thing, that has any impact for the older player base that's been thru 17 expansions already...i don't think you'll find a single thing.....Blink

tl;dr: And my point still being that just because you don't like frigs, destroyers, cruisers or the FW, doesn't mean others don't.

I don't see how those things are any less of the game to anything else. This isn't a progression themepark, things like frigs do not become discarded as one "levels-up". I actually immensely enjoy my hookbill, buzzard and kitsune, even though I also have a scorpion, raven, falcon and tengu on my account (though the scorp could use a little tlc by ccp).

But by what you are saying, the hookbill, kitsune or buzzard (solid boats) should be below me ...yet I'm spending more than half my time with those, tinkering with loadouts and using them in their roles. I could be in a dreadnaught already, but I don't see the point, not interested one bit, at all. I just don't see EVE as being so narrow that there is only one play-style.

I've waited years for CCP to work on FW, in SWG that was my thing from launch, and here it was broken and lame. EnB didn't even have FW, and EVE didn't have FW until 2008. By 2009 it was already becoming a joke when I found out EVE introduced FW. But I heard that they were going to address the issues, so by my third trial over the years I registered an account and have just been waiting for them to do something with it.

In fact I waited so long, my main which was suppose to be my FW alt became my main while my main (this) became my alt... heh. I could still use my other for FW, but it's become my wealth generator where it's bloated SP for FW... and pref being somewhat safe for trading at this point. Which is not really an issue, but then I don't have a nine year account with a wide spectrum of SP's over three characters (or multi-accounts), I was too wrapped up in SWG (best game ever, pre-nge) to bother with the non-existant or broken FW system of EVE.

Or am I suppose to be above all this even though I've been playing in FW even back to when it first appeared almost 15yrs ago in UO? And 0.0 is the only play-style available here... I think not.

But then with SC, you are starting all over again, there will be less in that game than here, guaranteed. I've been playing mmo's for over 15 years (MUD's before then), my main genre, and every game has had a load of problems. SC will be no different in that regard, yet it will still be less developed than EVE. If it can catch up, we are talking 10 years if they go double speed, which I don't think will happen.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#102 - 2012-10-23 16:38:52 UTC  |  Edited by: oldbutfeelingyoung
digitalwanderer wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:



So EvE is largely being ignored ? the DEVS must be loving you now
Some people are never satisfied .

Yeah sure Dust will retract a lott of resources from EvE ,and as long DUST is a success you will hear nobody
Only if DUST is a failure ,you will get some more that think DUST should never happen
At least it will take some WIShaters away and making them DUSThaters



For a portion of the player base, specifically those that have been with the game since the start, when there were still a lot of rough edges, like server crashes 2~3 times a day, massive bugs and exploits and pretty much everything completely umbalanced, you better believe it.


CCP takes the old player base for granted and doesn't have to do a damn thing to keep them playing, and focuses on the new player experience instead for the last few years, so yeah it's kinda normal that the old farts are feeling somewhat ignored here.


Well CCP could add Pandas to keep the old playerbase happy

The only thing that keeps you playing is your interest and fun to this game

R.S.I2014

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#103 - 2012-10-23 18:12:53 UTC
Webvan wrote:

tl;dr: And my point still being that just because you don't like frigs, destroyers, cruisers or the FW, doesn't mean others don't.

I don't see how those things are any less of the game to anything else. This isn't a progression themepark, things like frigs do not become discarded as one "levels-up". I actually immensely enjoy my hookbill, buzzard and kitsune, even though I also have a scorpion, raven, falcon and tengu on my account (though the scorp could use a little tlc by ccp).

But by what you are saying, the hookbill, kitsune or buzzard (solid boats) should be below me ...yet I'm spending more than half my time with those, tinkering with loadouts and using them in their roles. I could be in a dreadnaught already, but I don't see the point, not interested one bit, at all. I just don't see EVE as being so narrow that there is only one play-style.

I've waited years for CCP to work on FW, in SWG that was my thing from launch, and here it was broken and lame. EnB didn't even have FW, and EVE didn't have FW until 2008. By 2009 it was already becoming a joke when I found out EVE introduced FW. But I heard that they were going to address the issues, so by my third trial over the years I registered an account and have just been waiting for them to do something with it.

In fact I waited so long, my main which was suppose to be my FW alt became my main while my main (this) became my alt... heh. I could still use my other for FW, but it's become my wealth generator where it's bloated SP for FW... and pref being somewhat safe for trading at this point. Which is not really an issue, but then I don't have a nine year account with a wide spectrum of SP's over three characters (or multi-accounts), I was too wrapped up in SWG (best game ever, pre-nge) to bother with the non-existant or broken FW system of EVE.

Or am I suppose to be above all this even though I've been playing in FW even back to when it first appeared almost 15yrs ago in UO? And 0.0 is the only play-style available here... I think not.

But then with SC, you are starting all over again, there will be less in that game than here, guaranteed. I've been playing mmo's for over 15 years (MUD's before then), my main genre, and every game has had a load of problems. SC will be no different in that regard, yet it will still be less developed than EVE. If it can catch up, we are talking 10 years if they go double speed, which I don't think will happen.



Having flown every ship in the game already, and done every possible activity there is even to the point of setting up my own POS in sleeper space and being there for a couple of months solo, while hunting sleepers for parts, mining and running P.I. operations, and doing it completely solo, to faction warfare to incursions to missions to having been in a few 0.0 aliances to pvp and major fleet warfare, to trading on the market and making my own ships.....It's been done already.


The suggestions i made earlier about developing the jove storyline or the sleeper storyline or even opening up the eve gate, would affect every player in the game right now, even if they started when the game did and it turns out residents on the other side of the eve gate are none to pleased to see us again, and we have to unite as one to stay alive, as they have a massive technological advantage of well over 20 000 years if you read EVE lore....They'd likely be even more advanced than the jove.


Walking in stations would never had that kind of an impact, and neither would dust and it would be the pointless fighting in 0.0, wich is more and more dominated by super capitals than ever, mainly because the pvp divisions in each aliance are bored and they don't need extra territory or the assets they contain, since everyone has more money than they know what to do with it....They still fight just to have the killmails basically, and have to put up with a lot of lag( most of the time) to do it.


After nearly 10 years, the game needs a kick in the ass to rejuvinate it for everyone, young or old.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#104 - 2012-10-23 18:15:36 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:


Well CCP could add Pandas to keep the old playerbase happy

The only thing that keeps you playing is your interest and fun to this game



You know what's funny though?.....If the player base hadn't put up with the mess this game was in 2003 and 2004 and had left there and then rather than keep on playing, the odds you you playing it today would likely be severely reduced, as the game would no longer be running.


Just a thought....P
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#105 - 2012-10-23 18:46:39 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
.....It's been done already.
That's a personal goal, to do everything, or to level-up every archetype of a game in themeparks. That's how they build most games now, never ending level grind, more flashy content expansions to keep them returning after they got bored and left. That's why I much prefer the sandbox, I am a creature of habit. They want a new place to raid every month. I'll guard a six inch square of lawn/grass for years on end Big smile

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-10-23 19:56:38 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:


Well CCP could add Pandas to keep the old playerbase happy

The only thing that keeps you playing is your interest and fun to this game



You know what's funny though?.....If the player base hadn't put up with the mess this game was in 2003 and 2004 and had left there and then rather than keep on playing, the odds you you playing it today would likely be severely reduced, as the game would no longer be running.


Just a thought....P



So we must all now be grateful to the bittervets ?

You stayed bc you liked the game and it happened that the game evolved into something better

nothing more nothing less

and lets hope this game keeps evolving

R.S.I2014

Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#107 - 2012-10-23 20:11:14 UTC
Well, I am gonna be a complete **** and say as much as Star Citizen looks interesting, I hope it never gets made.

All so that digitalwanderer cuts his wrists a little more...

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-10-23 22:07:08 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Well, I am gonna be a complete **** and say as much as Star Citizen looks interesting, I hope it never gets made.

All so that digitalwanderer cuts his wrists a little more...



could you explain ,why it should not made?

R.S.I2014

Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#109 - 2012-10-23 22:12:52 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Well, I am gonna be a complete **** and say as much as Star Citizen looks interesting, I hope it never gets made.

All so that digitalwanderer cuts his wrists a little more...



could you explain ,why it should not made?


I just did. Read again.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#110 - 2012-10-24 01:30:14 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:



So we must all now be grateful to the bittervets ?

You stayed bc you liked the game and it happened that the game evolved into something better

nothing more nothing less

and lets hope this game keeps evolving




Well put it this way....Back then the server crashed 2~3 times a day, patches could happen at any time of the day as well and ships were really horribly umbalanced with to stacking penalty at all, instant locks and insane tracking where large guns would easily hit frigates orbiting at 5 kms abd the same goes for missiles.


Basically stuff that would make today's players really complain that the game is seriously screwed up in a big way....P
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#111 - 2012-10-24 01:32:25 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Well, I am gonna be a complete **** and say as much as Star Citizen looks interesting, I hope it never gets made.

All so that digitalwanderer cuts his wrists a little more...



Too late as the game has already hit it's minimum financing(2 million $), and the pledge drive is only at the half way mark, so they'll make a lot more than the minimum they requested.
Something Random
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2012-10-24 01:52:56 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:



So we must all now be grateful to the bittervets ?

You stayed bc you liked the game and it happened that the game evolved into something better

nothing more nothing less

and lets hope this game keeps evolving


No.


and Yes - very much so.


/me cooks popcorn

"caught on fire a little bit, just a little."

"Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangs all here!"

I love Science, it gives me a Hadron.

Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2012-10-24 02:07:50 UTC
vets should get special mods and stuff
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#114 - 2012-10-24 11:20:53 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Well, I am gonna be a complete **** and say as much as Star Citizen looks interesting, I hope it never gets made.

All so that digitalwanderer cuts his wrists a little more...



Too late as the game has already hit it's minimum financing(2 million $), and the pledge drive is only at the half way mark, so they'll make a lot more than the minimum they requested.


Even so, that is no guarantee that the game will actually be made. Come back when you have the game in your hands.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#115 - 2012-10-24 11:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Ares Desideratus wrote:
vets should get special mods and stuff
Vets do. Usually comes around holiday season when it does heh. It's not something you can receive after the distribution apart from buying it from another player, so really it's a vet reward in a way. Some of it's unique, so it's "special", right? And afterall, some games start giving out vet rewards to newbies the first month. And really, anyone that has had an active account since launch should really be considered a founding player, which is more the norm in mmo's.
-



So they got 2mil, eh? Well... that's enough to hire 5 to 8 developers for two years, plus basic infrastructure (systems and tools etc) and have a roof over their heads.
Here's to them making a REAL bounty hunter system (as good or better than SWG pre-NGE), maybe even good open-world faction wars with a purpose Smile

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#116 - 2012-10-24 17:38:08 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Webvan wrote:

-

So they got 2mil, eh? Well... that's enough to hire 5 to 8 developers for two years, plus basic infrastructure (systems and tools etc) and have a roof over their heads.
Here's to them making a REAL bounty hunter system (as good or better than SWG pre-NGE), maybe even good open-world faction wars with a purpose Smile




Not quite what i said though......They got to 2 million in half the time they expected to, as the pledge is only 15 days old on their official site, and the kickstarter account they created has already surpassed it's 500 thousand goal in 5 days.


There's 15 days left on the main site and 25 days left on the kickstarter one, so i think they'll largely exceed that 2 million mark by quite a bit if this pace continues, and they are using pretty much the most advanced graphics engine for PC games to begin with, from the guys that developed Crysis 1 and Crysis 2, and Crysis 3 is coming out next february using this exact same engine:


http://www.g4tv.com/videos/60232/crysis-3-cryengine-3-tech-demo-video/?quality=hd


The above is running in real time btw, and that's the engine star citizen is using...Shocked
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#117 - 2012-10-25 03:04:11 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Webvan wrote:

-

So they got 2mil, eh? Well... that's enough to hire 5 to 8 developers for two years, plus basic infrastructure (systems and tools etc) and have a roof over their heads.
Here's to them making a REAL bounty hunter system (as good or better than SWG pre-NGE), maybe even good open-world faction wars with a purpose Smile




Not quite what i said though......They got to 2 million in half the time they expected to, as the pledge is only 15 days old on their official site, and the kickstarter account they created has already surpassed it's 500 thousand goal in 5 days.


There's 15 days left on the main site and 25 days left on the kickstarter one, so i think they'll largely exceed that 2 million mark by quite a bit if this pace continues, and they are using pretty much the most advanced graphics engine for PC games to begin with, from the guys that developed Crysis 1 and Crysis 2, and Crysis 3 is coming out next february using this exact same engine:


http://www.g4tv.com/videos/60232/crysis-3-cryengine-3-tech-demo-video/?quality=hd


The above is running in real time btw, and that's the engine star citizen is using...Shocked




are there any game engines that can compete with that ?


It is amazing !

+1 for the vid

R.S.I2014

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#118 - 2012-10-25 12:56:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
digitalwanderer wrote:
Webvan wrote:

-

So they got 2mil, eh? Well... that's enough to hire 5 to 8 developers for two years, plus basic infrastructure (systems and tools etc) and have a roof over their heads.
Here's to them making a REAL bounty hunter system (as good or better than SWG pre-NGE), maybe even good open-world faction wars with a purpose Smile




Not quite what i said though......They got to 2 million in half the time they expected to, as the pledge is only 15 days old on their official site, and the kickstarter account they created has already surpassed it's 500 thousand goal in 5 days.


There's 15 days left on the main site and 25 days left on the kickstarter one, so i think they'll largely exceed that 2 million mark by quite a bit if this pace continues, and they are using pretty much the most advanced graphics engine for PC games to begin with, from the guys that developed Crysis 1 and Crysis 2, and Crysis 3 is coming out next february using this exact same engine:


http://www.g4tv.com/videos/60232/crysis-3-cryengine-3-tech-demo-video/?quality=hd


The above is running in real time btw, and that's the engine star citizen is using...Shocked

I know that, and so do they, as they need more. You cant cash out unless you reach your goal with kickstart. So you need to set your goal low. Cryengine costs 1.2 mil to license. With 2mil, counting all costs, me saying five employees is being gracious, though they need far more employees than that including the jobs outside of development (lawyers, accountants etc.). They would be lucky to have $200k left to pay employees from $2M. $200k for say two years? Almost enough to pay one senior programmer.

As for the cryengine, I don't care for it too much. That was part of my comment as to why players will need a high-end computer at launch. It works really hard, takes a lot of resources to run well in comparison to say the Unreal engine, and that's not so good for an mmo for a number of reasons... especially if we hit a portable revolution in the coming years as many believe, beyond the obvious reasons of player loitering, blobbing etc. I've never used the cryengine, but I very much dig the Unreal engine and it's tools, especially as it's more affordable (half the price) and very indie dev friendly.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#119 - 2012-10-25 16:43:46 UTC
Webvan wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
Webvan wrote:

-

So they got 2mil, eh? Well... that's enough to hire 5 to 8 developers for two years, plus basic infrastructure (systems and tools etc) and have a roof over their heads.
Here's to them making a REAL bounty hunter system (as good or better than SWG pre-NGE), maybe even good open-world faction wars with a purpose Smile




Not quite what i said though......They got to 2 million in half the time they expected to, as the pledge is only 15 days old on their official site, and the kickstarter account they created has already surpassed it's 500 thousand goal in 5 days.


There's 15 days left on the main site and 25 days left on the kickstarter one, so i think they'll largely exceed that 2 million mark by quite a bit if this pace continues, and they are using pretty much the most advanced graphics engine for PC games to begin with, from the guys that developed Crysis 1 and Crysis 2, and Crysis 3 is coming out next february using this exact same engine:


http://www.g4tv.com/videos/60232/crysis-3-cryengine-3-tech-demo-video/?quality=hd


The above is running in real time btw, and that's the engine star citizen is using...Shocked

I know that, and so do they, as they need more. You cant cash out unless you reach your goal with kickstart. So you need to set your goal low. Cryengine costs 1.2 mil to license. With 2mil, counting all costs, me saying five employees is being gracious, though they need far more employees than that including the jobs outside of development (lawyers, accountants etc.). They would be lucky to have $200k left to pay employees from $2M. $200k for say two years? Almost enough to pay one senior programmer.

As for the cryengine, I don't care for it too much. That was part of my comment as to why players will need a high-end computer at launch. It works really hard, takes a lot of resources to run well in comparison to say the Unreal engine, and that's not so good for an mmo for a number of reasons... especially if we hit a portable revolution in the coming years as many believe, beyond the obvious reasons of player loitering, blobbing etc. I've never used the cryengine, but I very much dig the Unreal engine and it's tools, especially as it's more affordable (half the price) and very indie dev friendly.



there is a problem with EvE

BC CCP has a small but loyal playersbase,they had to keep a lot of people happy , by keeping this game up to directx 9 standards .
this says enough of the problems CCP has when it comes to graphics .
Maybe people will buy a ps3 to play the consolecrap DUST
i will probably be able to play SC at low resolutions ,but i will buy a better pc or the graphics cart to move on



R.S.I2014

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#120 - 2012-10-25 17:12:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:


there is a problem with EvE

BC CCP has a small but loyal playersbase,they had to keep a lot of people happy , by keeping this game up to directx 9 standards .
this says enough of the problems CCP has when it comes to graphics .
Maybe people will buy a ps3 to play the consolecrap DUST
i will probably be able to play SC at low resolutions ,but i will buy a better pc or the graphics cart to move on




I don't see it as a problem. Runs on my desktop, runs on my laptop. Style is more important, almost as much as game play. How do you think WoW did so well? OK... excluding game play in that case heh, but a compelling reason everyone would list is that it would run on normal computers, even low-end systems. SC is targeting the niche of a niche market, which may not lend ample revenues to long term speedy development. His reason for not finding funding is more than he eludes to. But that is what indie is for, doing things beyond the realm of the safe bet. In EVE's case it was about the same, but not targeting such a small niche driven by high-end graphics, but about having different game play and available to a wider market.

edit What EVE is suffering from as far as any "problems", is the same thing that UO went through early on. UO increased subs after the dramatic change, but then it ran into heavy competition from some excellent games at the time (e.g EQ & DAoC). UO was still pretty new though, unlike EVE which has gone through significant improvement as competition would be unlikely to catch up apart from a highly funded AAA which is horribly unlikely to happen. EVE: Renaissance? I'm thinking no, but it is inching in that direction.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12