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[Winter] New destroyers

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Ty Delaney
Gambit Roulette
#121 - 2012-09-28 19:34:29 UTC
Aaron Greil wrote:
The bonuses laid out by these new ships are really ugly. They slap the traditional bonus styles in the face.


"I fear and hate anything that smacks of change."

Aaron Greil wrote:
Another thing to consider would also be a drone speed bonus.

They tried it. It make the drones get stuck in MWD mode, because they kept slingshotting past the target and could never get out of the need to close in. Doesn't work.

Aaron Greil wrote:
I see drones added to everything, but short range missiles are supposed to be amarr's second weapons platform. Are you phasing them out?


They've said a number of times that drones will be the go-to secondary weapon system for Amarr.

Aaron Greil wrote:
The caldari one is the only one that really looks any good. The minmatar one looks too powerful, and with serious overlap with interceptors. It looks seriously outside of design philosophy of destroyers. I could see a static speed bonus, (in line with minmatar) but a MWD sig reduction? Like interceptors? Like AFs? No good.


This comment just reeks of fear of change and a dislike of anything that doesn't fit in current cubbyholes. Heavens forfend that there be any interesting propagation of ideas from one ship class to another.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#122 - 2012-09-28 19:34:39 UTC
Ty Delaney wrote:
HazeInADaze wrote:
Amarr hits with the power of 6 weapon mounts. Gallente hit with the power of 5 weapon mounts with range bonus (hybrid only) Amarr still hold a cap bonus and a nuet bonus over gals. At face value this seems unbalanced.


Oh, come on: you can't talk about how the Amarr gets six turret slots and then in the same breath talk about how the Amarr gets a neut bonus. Those neuts will use up at least two and probably three of those six high slots.

This whole thread is kind of ridiculous. If you take every comment that says "X is overpowered" and cancel it out with some other post that says "X is useless and weak" the entire thread would vanish. It's no wonder CCP ignores 90% of player input.


The Caldari destroyer gets almost 80% more alpha than today's AML Caracal, and applies it better as well. It also gets really fantastic range, which means that it's able to take advantage of the full range of overheated bonused point range.

I cannot overstate how powerful this ship is going to be.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
JEFFRAIDER
THIGH GUYS
#123 - 2012-09-28 19:36:01 UTC
CCP Fozzie,

Please name one of these destroyers "the JEFFRAIDER"

thanks man
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#124 - 2012-09-28 19:37:10 UTC
LtCol Laurentius wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • CALDARI DESTROYER:

    • Missiles, missiles, missiles, missiles, that's what this hull is all about. It spams missiles a quite a long range, and boasts improved explosion velocity to catch those pesky annoying little orbiting frigates.

    Slot layout: 8 H, 3 M, 2 L, 8 launchers
    Fittings: 45 PWG, 210 CPU

  • MODULE CHANGES:

    • Balancing these ships made us realize some further tweaks were needed on some modules to make these destroyers, and as an extend, some other ships / setups more useful.

    * All light missile launcher fittings: CPU reduced by 4, PWG reduced by 2


Ahem. Even with a reduced PG on the missile launchers, a destroyer pilot with maxed out fitting skills will have only 5,85 PG left after fitting 8 light launchers... So no speedmod. Or tank. Intentional?


the destroyer with light missles will be sniper so not needing a hugh tank also are you looking at tech 2 or tech 1 ?

but i think this ship is more set for rockets rather than missles still a damn good ship
LtCol Laurentius
The Imperial Sardaukar
#125 - 2012-09-28 19:38:24 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:


The Caldari destroyer gets almost 80% more alpha than today's AML Caracal, and applies it better as well. It also gets really fantastic range, which means that it's able to take advantage of the full range of overheated bonused point range.

I cannot overstate how powerful this ship is going to be.

-Liang



45 PWG
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#126 - 2012-09-28 19:41:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
perhaps a 5% bonus to missiles velocity is more in line with t1 ships im sure nighthawk has this bonus its prob too much after all turret tracking bonus are usually 7.5%

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
LtCol Laurentius
The Imperial Sardaukar
#127 - 2012-09-28 19:41:44 UTC  |  Edited by: LtCol Laurentius
serras bang wrote:
LtCol Laurentius wrote:
Ahem. Even with a reduced PG on the missile launchers, a destroyer pilot with maxed out fitting skills will have only 5,85 PG left after fitting 8 light launchers... So no speedmod. Or tank. Intentional?


the destroyer with light missles will be sniper so not needing a hugh tank also are you looking at tech 2 or tech 1 ?

but i think this ship is more set for rockets rather than missles still a damn good ship


A max skilled character will fit tech 2 (as is normal practice on existing destroyer hulls), and if Fozzie comes though with the tech 2 missile changes, it will be well worth it. A destroyer isnt really a sniper, even if it hits far for a small ship, thus it will need a small buffer to avoid beeing alphaed at least . And flying a combat ship without a speedmod? Forget it.
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#128 - 2012-09-28 19:48:53 UTC
So.. um..

Names of these new Destroyers?

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2012-09-28 19:53:39 UTC
How about this
Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone tracking and HP per level
+15% to drone damage per level
Role bonus: +100% drone optimal range
Slot layout: 4 H, 3 M, 3 L, 2 turrets
Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 800 / 850 / 950
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 550 / 350s / 1.57s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240 / 2.45 / 1800000 / 4.46s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42km / 500 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 magnetometric
Signature radius: 72
Cargo capacity: 350

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#130 - 2012-09-28 19:54:52 UTC
Sod names, I want pictures of the Amarr ship!

Not going to over think the stats of the ships yet. They all sound like they could be quite good in their own place.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#131 - 2012-09-28 19:59:44 UTC
The caldari one needs a nerf

That thing is going to be stupidly overpowered.

Even more stupidly overpowered than the new lolscorch coercer.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#132 - 2012-09-28 20:01:15 UTC
LtCol Laurentius wrote:
serras bang wrote:
LtCol Laurentius wrote:
Ahem. Even with a reduced PG on the missile launchers, a destroyer pilot with maxed out fitting skills will have only 5,85 PG left after fitting 8 light launchers... So no speedmod. Or tank. Intentional?


the destroyer with light missles will be sniper so not needing a hugh tank also are you looking at tech 2 or tech 1 ?

but i think this ship is more set for rockets rather than missles still a damn good ship


A max skilled character will fit tech 2 (as is normal practice on existing destroyer hulls), and if Fozzie comes though with the tech 2 missile changes, it will be well worth it. A destroyer isnt really a sniper, even if it hits far for a small ship, thus it will need a small buffer to avoid beeing alphaed at least . And flying a combat ship without a speedmod? Forget it.


at least we have a fairly fast base speed ship mate and as i said if your useing lights you gonna be sitting at over 70k away if your not sitting at you near max range from the target then whats the point however again you maybe right being able to fit a couple of small shield upgrades may and this is a big maybe needed for this however i dont think its an absalute requirement.

if you take the kestral for example it can sit at around 70k and ill say with a fair amount of confidance at near max range most ships wont have a chance against it. also gotta remmember of the light missle 10% base dmg buff.
Deornoth Drake
Vandeo
#133 - 2012-09-28 20:01:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Deornoth Drake
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The new amarr ship is going to be a better drone boat than the gallente one


The new minmatar ship is going to be a better missile boat than the caldari one.

CCP removes the single damage bonus on one ship, just to grant it on another ship!
Why not just give that damange bonus for all damage types, like you do it for the minmatar one.

edit: I just compared those two ships together, not all four
Midori Tsu
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#134 - 2012-09-28 20:01:33 UTC
I'm worried that the Amarr destroyer will completely over take the Sentinels role.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2012-09-28 20:03:32 UTC
The Caldari and Minmatar versions seem potentially overpowered perhaps we will need those tracking disrupter changes.

Gallente Destroyer

I get why it has less Drone bay than the Amarr version and why it has one less slot than the others but it still feels a little confused.

Not sure what use the two spare highs are other than as Heat sinks.

I also support the suggestion of a fifth turret and a tracking bonus for the damage bonus.

CPU seems very tight, again it should be the perfect platform for kitting out with omni’s and drone rigs but it is going to be a very tight fit especially if you want to fit a long point.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#136 - 2012-09-28 20:06:18 UTC
JEFFRAIDER wrote:
CCP Fozzie,

Please name one of these destroyers "the JEFFRAIDER"

thanks man

You can have the Gallente one.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#137 - 2012-09-28 20:10:54 UTC
LtCol Laurentius wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:


The Caldari destroyer gets almost 80% more alpha than today's AML Caracal, and applies it better as well. It also gets really fantastic range, which means that it's able to take advantage of the full range of overheated bonused point range.

I cannot overstate how powerful this ship is going to be.

-Liang



45 PWG


It's not really that big of a deal.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Luc Chastot
#138 - 2012-09-28 20:11:38 UTC
Gallente destroyer looks meh. I was really hoping we were gonna get a true drone boat, not this split weapon systems bs.

Anyways, if you want to keep the split weapon systems, then why give us a drone boat with gimped max velocity? Even the Caldari destroyer is faster. Either change that optimal bonus for a falloff one or give it more max velocity,

Now, if you wanted to make it a real drone boat, remove 1 turret hardpoint, move 2 utility highs to lows, change the hybrid skill bonus for +5% drone orbit velocity and the role bonus for 50% drone optimal.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#139 - 2012-09-28 20:22:30 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


[list]
  • AMARR DESTROYER:

    • Ship bonuses:
    +10% to drone damage and hitpoint per level
    +20% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer range per level
    Role bonus:
    +25% to ship capacitor recharge rate



    Im really likeing this one because it has a amarr style bonus wich steps away from hamoginizing... BUT, it may be misplaced, you have a habbit of having new ships step on the toes of older ships just so people will love them. should give Nos some love by increasing the energy drain and transfer amount on Nos only, or something not so sentinal like.

    CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • CALDARI DESTROYER:

    • Ship bonuses:
    +5% to rocket and light missile kinetic damage per level
    +10% to rocket and light missile explosion velocity per level
    Role bonus:
    +50% to rocket and light missile velocity



    Im likeing this, tho as always the kinetic only bonus makes me sad, seriously kinetic missles are like the only ones worth buyign or selling on the market because the only main missle race uses only that type. It could also use some more grid. could use a little more tank tho, the mids are going to be dedicated to Point/MWD/tank mod, and that just dosent seam like enough. Why must you always force the shield race struggle at speed AND Tackle?? their range dosent make up for this most the time.

    CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • GALLENTE DESTROYER:

    • Ship bonuses:
    +10% to drone damage and HP per level
    +5% to small hybrid turret damage per level
    Role bonus:
    +50% small hybrid turret optimal range




    a agree with a previous poster whom you also noticed that said give it a 5th turret and a trackign bonus, do eet do eet now! also consider givign it more bandwith (but no adition bay) say 35 bandwith? so it can atempt to feel superior in drone strenght than the amarr boat, but really will be a terible decition against frigs.

    CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • MINMATAR DESTROYER:

    • Ship bonuses:
    +5% to rocket and light missile explosion damage per level
    15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty per level
    Role bonus:
    +50% to rocket and light missile velocity



    really a MWD sig bonus? stop giving those out so much, give it a spped boost or web range boost of about 50% so it can get a web out to about 15k, and maybe reduce the webs strength down by 10% as a counter bonus tacked on to make it not OP


    Over all tho, i did have a bit of a nerd gasim, i love the thought of flyign these around
    HazeInADaze
    Safari Hunt Club
    #140 - 2012-09-28 20:30:25 UTC
    Ty Delaney wrote:
    HazeInADaze wrote:
    Amarr hits with the power of 6 weapon mounts. Gallente hit with the power of 5 weapon mounts with range bonus (hybrid only) Amarr still hold a cap bonus and a nuet bonus over gals. At face value this seems unbalanced.


    Oh, come on: you can't talk about how the Amarr gets six turret slots and then in the same breath talk about how the Amarr gets a neut bonus. Those neuts will use up at least two and probably three of those six high slots.

    This whole thread is kind of ridiculous. If you take every comment that says "X is overpowered" and cancel it out with some other post that says "X is useless and weak" the entire thread would vanish. It's no wonder CCP ignores 90% of player input.



    All I'm pointing out is that without the neuts and cap bonus the Amarr ship looks very close to the gallente. We don't know how they will shake out until we play them.