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[Winter] New destroyers

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Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#481 - 2012-10-03 18:09:54 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:

  • What's the point of the Catalyst next to the new Gallente hull?
    • We're planning some changes for it - keep an eye for them in the next days on this thread.


    Could you pleeeeeease reduce the highslots or turret hardpoints to 6 on the Catalyst? Then give it some cpu and PG so we can actually fit guns with more than 2km range

    while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

         _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

    }
    Ark Anhammar
    GO' R0V
    Pandemic Horde
    #482 - 2012-10-03 18:13:16 UTC
    Harvey James wrote:
    how is 35m3 helpful? mediums against frigs are a waste of time they wont track them why odd numbers doesn't make sense just improve the drone hp/dmg bonus instead do it across the board would be useful

    Yeah, Ytterbium, I think the consensus was that 25m3 of bandwidth on the Gallente boat was fine. The main issue was the utter lack of room in the bay.
    CheekyBabey
    Pator Tech School
    Minmatar Republic
    #483 - 2012-10-03 18:18:52 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Update!


      Amarr:
    • Cap recharge bonus moved into the hull itself - thus capacitor recharge rate reduced from 370 to 275s
    • Role bonus changed to 25% MWD speed to drones

      • Caldari:
    • Removed one high slot and launcher slot, gained one mid slot - thus layout now is 7 / 4 / 2, 7 launchers

      • Gallente:
    • Drone bandwidth increased to 35m3
    • Drone bay increased to 60m3
    • Turret number increased from 4 to 5
    • 5% hybrid turret damage bonus per level changed for 10% hybrid turret tracking bonus per level
    • Role bonus changed from 50% hybrid turret optimal range to 25% MWD speed to drones

      • Minmatar hull unchanged.



    Min and caldari are fine but you are still making the 2 drone boats useless.

    We have 4 ships, 1 a fast in your face, 1 lots of missles and 2 drone boats with nearly identical values.

    As I suggested give them 2 unique drone roles, one for ewar and one for damage, there is no reason to have 2 of the same might as well make something new.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1996105#post1996105
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #484 - 2012-10-03 18:28:22 UTC
    maybe the tracking bonus could apply to drones to like the tristan thus giving it a better bonus than the amarr one since the amarr one has the neut bonus.

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Warde Guildencrantz
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #485 - 2012-10-03 18:29:18 UTC
    CheekyBabey wrote:


    Min and caldari are fine but you are still making the 2 drone boats useless.

    We have 4 ships, 1 a fast in your face, 1 lots of missles and 2 drone boats with nearly identical values.

    As I suggested give them 2 unique drone roles, one for ewar and one for damage, there is no reason to have 2 of the same might as well make something new.


    I don't get how you fail to see the amarr one is a mini-curse and the gallente one is a rail boat that can kite like a boss with amazing tracking on a long range weapon. That's a big enough difference for me.

    TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #486 - 2012-10-03 18:32:04 UTC
    Warde Guildencrantz wrote:
    CheekyBabey wrote:


    Min and caldari are fine but you are still making the 2 drone boats useless.

    We have 4 ships, 1 a fast in your face, 1 lots of missles and 2 drone boats with nearly identical values.

    As I suggested give them 2 unique drone roles, one for ewar and one for damage, there is no reason to have 2 of the same might as well make something new.


    I don't get how you fail to see the amarr one is a mini-curse and the gallente one is a rail boat that can kite like a boss with amazing tracking on a long range weapon. That's a big enough difference for me.


    I don't think it should have a recon bonus on it really its clearly out of place give it a drone tracking bonus instead or extra drone HP or even a resist bonus on the ship itself...

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Zarnak Wulf
    Task Force 641
    Empyrean Edict
    #487 - 2012-10-03 18:32:27 UTC
    I'm liking the Gallente boat more. Took my fifth turret suggestion. Winning! Two medium and three light drones should be a nice mix too. They'll get on top of the target faster. 10 more CPU would be nice but it's solid now. The missile boats look good. Amarr is still questionable to me.

    I have a feeling my Cat rail boat is leaving me.
    PinkKnife
    The Cuddlefish
    Ethereal Dawn
    #488 - 2012-10-03 18:36:41 UTC
    Zarnak Wulf wrote:
    I'm liking the Gallente boat more. Took my fifth turret suggestion. Winning! Two medium and three light drones should be a nice mix too. They'll get on top of the target faster. 10 more CPU would be nice but it's solid now. The missile boats look good. Amarr is still questionable to me.

    I have a feeling my Cat rail boat is leaving me.


    Also, you could do 3 web drones 2 medium hobgoblins, or something like that.

    OH WAIT, it is a huge pain in the ass since drones don't allow mixed groups at all.

    Seriously, 75% of drone suckage is due to the absolutely awful UI used to implement them.
    HELLBOUNDMAN
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #489 - 2012-10-03 18:37:20 UTC  |  Edited by: HELLBOUNDMAN
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:

  • Why having a fixed damage bonus on the Caldari and Minmatar hulls, didn't you want to move away from this philosophy?
    • Yes we definitely do, when it makes sense. For instance, we kept a kinetic damage bonus on the Condor, while the Kestrel has a generic one. In this particular case however, having general damage bonuses on these two hulls would bring them too close of each other.

  • Don't you think the Caldari hull is going to have an insane alpha with light missiles, or just too good in general?
    • The layout change will help mitigate that somewhat. If it still too much of an issue we can always revert the light missile damage change and increase the ROF on light and rapid light missile launchers instead.


    I actually kinda had a thought behind this.

    Design the Caldari to be high alpha long range, but slower.

    So
    Caldari
    5% damage buff to rockets and lights
    Role: 50% missile velocity buff
    reduce velocity

    Minmatar
    10% bonus to rocket and light RoF
    Role: 5-10% bonus to missile velocity
    increase velocity


    Now, these are just random numbers as a suggestion.

    Basically, what I'm going with here is that the Caldari boat would be meant for greater range, higher alpha, but slower speed.

    While the minmatar would be the brawler with higher RoF, higher velocity, more EHP, but less range.

    This would be a way to set each ship apart from each other without having to give them specific damage buffs in order to do so.

    Cause honestly, expecially with the drop of a high from the Caldari, they're still way too similar, only using different damage types.

    So, one a brawler, one a high alpha sniper.
    Warde Guildencrantz
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #490 - 2012-10-03 18:40:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • What's the point of the Catalyst next to the new Gallente hull?
    • We're planning some changes for it - keep an eye for them in the next days on this thread.


    I think the real question is "what point is using the cormorant?" when:

    1. The other caldari boat has better range, and damage, with light missiles, people will just use that instead of the corm
    2. The catalyst has better damage in every other way with blasters, so if they want blasters they will use a catalyst
    3. The gallente boat will have good tracking and range just like the cormorant, making the cormorant less favourable once again.

    So we have the caldari missile destroyer having the same (if not more) range than the corm with similar damage, the catalyst having more damage completely with a blaster fit, and the gallente drone boat having similar railgun tracking to the cormorant while fielding drones to make up the turret difference as well. The corm will not be "best" at anything here, so I doubt it will see much use. It needs something else to be useful, perhaps like switching the 8th high slot on it for a 4th midslot (can't fit a gun on there anyways), making it have more midslots than the other rail/hybrid boats and thus bringing something different to the table.

    I really think it should be looked at.

    TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
    Omnathious Deninard
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #491 - 2012-10-03 18:46:21 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Update!

    [list]

    Gallente:
  • Drone bandwidth increased to 35m3
  • Drone bay increased to 60m3
  • Turret number increased from 4 to 5
  • 5% hybrid turret damage bonus per level changed for 10% hybrid turret tracking bonus per level
  • Role bonus changed from 50% hybrid turret optimal range to 25% MWD speed to drones


    • The bandwith increase is quite obscure as it wont really add much to the effectivenesses, being that medium drone tracking vs frigates is quite bad. Leaving it with 4 turrets and increasing drone damage and hp by an additional 5% would have been better
    with the tracking increase i believe you intend this to be used with rails whose long range ammo can reach out to about 24k with skills.
    the MWD bonus works well with the range of the rails.

    Overall it is better but the hybrid tracking could have easily been a drone tracking bonus and the banwith is just silly

    If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
    I'm Down
    Macabre Votum
    Northern Coalition.
    #492 - 2012-10-03 19:11:57 UTC
    Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Update!

    [list]

    Gallente:
  • Drone bandwidth increased to 35m3
  • Drone bay increased to 60m3
  • Turret number increased from 4 to 5
  • 5% hybrid turret damage bonus per level changed for 10% hybrid turret tracking bonus per level
  • Role bonus changed from 50% hybrid turret optimal range to 25% MWD speed to drones


    • The bandwith increase is quite obscure as it wont really add much to the effectivenesses, being that medium drone tracking vs frigates is quite bad. Leaving it with 4 turrets and increasing drone damage and hp by an additional 5% would have been better
    with the tracking increase i believe you intend this to be used with rails whose long range ammo can reach out to about 24k with skills.
    the MWD bonus works well with the range of the rails.

    Overall it is better but the hybrid tracking could have easily been a drone tracking bonus and the banwith is just silly


    Just give Gallente a + 2 Drones controlled Static ship bonus instead of MWD speed but keep the Bandwidth the same... this means 7 light drones to use for 35 bandwitdth
    Alticus C Bear
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #493 - 2012-10-03 19:13:53 UTC
    Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Update!

    [list]

    Gallente:
  • Drone bandwidth increased to 35m3
  • Drone bay increased to 60m3
  • Turret number increased from 4 to 5
  • 5% hybrid turret damage bonus per level changed for 10% hybrid turret tracking bonus per level
  • Role bonus changed from 50% hybrid turret optimal range to 25% MWD speed to drones


    • The bandwith increase is quite obscure as it wont really add much to the effectivenesses, being that medium drone tracking vs frigates is quite bad. Leaving it with 4 turrets and increasing drone damage and hp by an additional 5% would have been better
    with the tracking increase i believe you intend this to be used with rails whose long range ammo can reach out to about 24k with skills.
    the MWD bonus works well with the range of the rails.

    Overall it is better but the hybrid tracking could have easily been a drone tracking bonus and the banwith is just silly


    I like the changes; bandwidth does allow a few other utility drone options as others have pointed out.

    2x Valks plus 3x Hobs may be viable especially if the target is scrammed and webbed. With the increase bay it allows you to at least keep this bigger flight as an option.

    CPU is tight still.
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #494 - 2012-10-03 19:20:33 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Update!

  • Don't you think the Caldari hull is going to have an insane alpha with light missiles, or just too good in general?
    • The layout change will help mitigate that somewhat. If it still too much of an issue we can always revert the light missile damage change and increase the ROF on light and rapid light missile launchers instead.



    definitely do this RML's on cruisers definitely need more dps although personally i think its silly using frig ammo on a cruiser i would like to see a new ammo type designed for it to kill actual cruisers with low sig radius.

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Omnathious Deninard
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #495 - 2012-10-03 19:33:51 UTC
    Alticus C Bear wrote:
    Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Update!

    [list]

    Gallente:
  • Drone bandwidth increased to 35m3
  • Drone bay increased to 60m3
  • Turret number increased from 4 to 5
  • 5% hybrid turret damage bonus per level changed for 10% hybrid turret tracking bonus per level
  • Role bonus changed from 50% hybrid turret optimal range to 25% MWD speed to drones


    • The bandwith increase is quite obscure as it wont really add much to the effectivenesses, being that medium drone tracking vs frigates is quite bad. Leaving it with 4 turrets and increasing drone damage and hp by an additional 5% would have been better
    with the tracking increase i believe you intend this to be used with rails whose long range ammo can reach out to about 24k with skills.
    the MWD bonus works well with the range of the rails.

    Overall it is better but the hybrid tracking could have easily been a drone tracking bonus and the banwith is just silly


    I like the changes; bandwidth does allow a few other utility drone options as others have pointed out.

    2x Valks plus 3x Hobs may be viable especially if the target is scrammed and webbed. With the increase bay it allows you to at least keep this bigger flight as an option.

    CPU is tight still.

    if you are within web and scram range you are so close the MWD bonus is wasted. Is will be better to just up the drone damage and hp by an additional 5%, or as im down stated increase the max control by +2

    If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
    Warde Guildencrantz
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #496 - 2012-10-03 19:34:37 UTC
    Harvey James wrote:



    definitely do this RML's on cruisers definitely need more dps although personally i think its silly using frig ammo on a cruiser i would like to see a new ammo type designed for it to kill actual cruisers with low sig radius.


    There DPS is very good considering what they are supposed to do, especially with the 10% damage increase. A new missile type would be pointless and inconsistent.

    What i would like to see is a battleship sized rapid launcher that shoots heavies O_o for more DPS than the nerfed heavy launchers. Everyone would use it in comparison with cruises as they are right now...

    TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
    Major Killz
    inglorious bastards.
    #497 - 2012-10-03 19:34:45 UTC
    Well, now I can take the Gallente destroyer off my list of things to fly. I'll just be flying the Minmatar and Caldari destroyer it would seem. However, it was wise of you to remove the Gallente destroyers optimal range bonus.

    [u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #498 - 2012-10-03 19:36:58 UTC
    and make drones cheaper they are bloody expensive to lose with the pitiful HP they have and the HP bonus to the ships don't really help them much the drones themselves need to be smarter and orbit a lot quicker and track better with much better HP and T2 resists.

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    TrouserDeagle
    Beyond Divinity Inc
    Shadow Cartel
    #499 - 2012-10-03 19:41:50 UTC
    Why don't you just do what I say and crank up the drone damage bonus to 15% per level or something while keeping the bandwidth at 25? Mediums are even more seriously appalling at applying damage than lights.

    I don't understand how you can think drones actually hit moving targets at all if you're making an effort to test these ships. A speed bonus might help I guess, but having the option to use mediums won't.
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #500 - 2012-10-03 19:51:20 UTC
    TrouserDeagle wrote:
    Why don't you just do what I say and crank up the drone damage bonus to 15% per level or something while keeping the bandwidth at 25? Mediums are even more seriously appalling at applying damage than lights.

    I don't understand how you can think drones actually hit moving targets at all if you're making an effort to test these ships. A speed bonus might help I guess, but having the option to use mediums won't.


    Drones in general need a overhaul

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using