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Crime & Punishment

 
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Dec Shield - End of the Second Era

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Tatakai no Tenshi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#61 - 2012-09-27 02:35:20 UTC
My corporation has just applied, and will be joining the alliance in 24 hours. Until CCP decides to nerf this, I am planning use of all the targets provided here to wreak havoc.

The doors are open for everyone. Mains, alts, you name it. Just drop and app into 'Good Fights'. The corp will be in the alliance within the next 24h, so keep that in mind if you have ships to move. The corp will be basing out of Jita 4-4.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
-TnT
Gerard Gendri
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-09-27 03:57:19 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
They don't all bail. Only about 20% of our victims have bailed. And since we'll continue to accumulate them, the choice of highsec targets we're holding captive will only get better. Some entities will never be able to escape or disband like the nullsec alliances. If any of them are foolish enough to declare wars they'll end up screwed.


You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#63 - 2012-09-27 04:27:44 UTC
Gerard Gendri wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
They don't all bail. Only about 20% of our victims have bailed. And since we'll continue to accumulate them, the choice of highsec targets we're holding captive will only get better. Some entities will never be able to escape or disband like the nullsec alliances. If any of them are foolish enough to declare wars they'll end up screwed.


You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?

Clearly you weren't paying much attention when Privateers, The 0rphanage, and Moar Tears roamed the land.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
Adolf Hilmar
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2012-09-27 05:18:46 UTC
Gerard Gendri wrote:
You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?


Yes, because they won't be able to recruit new corps into their alliance.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#65 - 2012-09-27 05:46:34 UTC
Gerard Gendri wrote:


You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?


Look out, everybody:

WE GOT US A REAL BADASS HERE!!

For ****'s sake...Ugh

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Pipa Porto
#66 - 2012-09-27 06:46:32 UTC
Adolf Hilmar wrote:
Gerard Gendri wrote:
You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?


Yes, because they won't be able to recruit new corps into their alliance.


Why would that be?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#67 - 2012-09-27 07:36:01 UTC
Gerard Gendri wrote:
You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?

Yes, I'm quite positive that wardecs have massive effects on nullsec alliances. Moar Tears demonstrated this over and over again by killing dozens of jump freighters every month that belonged to nullsec alliances. Nullsec alliances don't have military arms in highsec, thus their lowbies get picked off regularily.

Fine you say, so they deserve that. But these aren't just normal wars we're holding over them, these are outgoing wars. And alliance with an outgoing war CANNOT recruit another corporation to the alliance, ever again. If any corporations ever leave that alliance, they'll also have outgoing wars. A corporation with an outgoing war CANNOT join an alliance, ever again.

So yes, there are consequences, and they are brutal, even if you don't care about the loss of your assets to highsec pirates. And the worst insult of it all is that you can blame yourselves for having made the outgoing war to begin with. So let's not pretend there are no consequences to us trapping you, because there will be, until such time CCP stops me.

PS, I have extended aid to TEST alliance for your wars, but I don't expect you'll let us absorb your wars

Burn Highsec Griefers
Pipa Porto
#68 - 2012-09-27 07:37:46 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
But these aren't just normal wars we're holding over them, these are outgoing wars. And alliance with an outgoing war CANNOT recruit another corporation to the alliance, ever again. If any corporations ever leave that alliance, they'll also have outgoing wars. A corporation with an outgoing war CANNOT join an alliance, ever again.


Wait, seriously?

Jesus Christ CCP.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-09-27 09:10:10 UTC
Gerard Gendri wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
They don't all bail. Only about 20% of our victims have bailed. And since we'll continue to accumulate them, the choice of highsec targets we're holding captive will only get better. Some entities will never be able to escape or disband like the nullsec alliances. If any of them are foolish enough to declare wars they'll end up screwed.


You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?

Hey was it before or after the change that forced the highsec corps to drop the wardecs on goons, that they started to suicide gank in niarja with their mains????
Pipa Porto
#70 - 2012-09-27 09:42:53 UTC
Karah Serrigan wrote:
Gerard Gendri wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
They don't all bail. Only about 20% of our victims have bailed. And since we'll continue to accumulate them, the choice of highsec targets we're holding captive will only get better. Some entities will never be able to escape or disband like the nullsec alliances. If any of them are foolish enough to declare wars they'll end up screwed.


You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?

Hey was it before or after the change that forced the highsec corps to drop the wardecs on goons, that they started to suicide gank in niarja with their mains????


During that Wardec, weren't they too busy with HAG suicide ganking Hulks?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
flakeys
Doomheim
#71 - 2012-09-27 15:14:16 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Karah Serrigan wrote:
Gerard Gendri wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
They don't all bail. Only about 20% of our victims have bailed. And since we'll continue to accumulate them, the choice of highsec targets we're holding captive will only get better. Some entities will never be able to escape or disband like the nullsec alliances. If any of them are foolish enough to declare wars they'll end up screwed.


You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?

Hey was it before or after the change that forced the highsec corps to drop the wardecs on goons, that they started to suicide gank in niarja with their mains????


During that Wardec, weren't they too busy with HAG suicide ganking Hulks?



And i'm sure current war price wasn't placed as one big gift into their hands ...

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Reppyk
The Black Shell
#72 - 2012-09-27 15:28:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Reppyk
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
Fine you say, so they deserve that. But these aren't just normal wars we're holding over them, these are outgoing wars. And alliance with an outgoing war CANNOT recruit another corporation to the alliance, ever again. If any corporations ever leave that alliance, they'll also have outgoing wars. A corporation with an outgoing war CANNOT join an alliance, ever again.
RIP C0ven.

EDIT : ZO, will you make your maths ? You can beat Privateer's wardec record ! Pirate

I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.

Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2012-09-27 15:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Karah Serrigan
Reppyk wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
Fine you say, so they deserve that. But these aren't just normal wars we're holding over them, these are outgoing wars. And alliance with an outgoing war CANNOT recruit another corporation to the alliance, ever again. If any corporations ever leave that alliance, they'll also have outgoing wars. A corporation with an outgoing war CANNOT join an alliance, ever again.
RIP C0ven.

EDIT : ZO, will you make your maths ? You can beat Privateer's wardec record ! Pirate

If an alliance with outgoing wars cant accept new corporation, how are corporations able to join Dec Shield and spread new wars then?

Pipa Porto wrote:

During that Wardec, weren't they too busy with HAG suicide ganking Hulks?

You mean because there was only a short time frame of 2 months before the patch when this was possible rather than ALL the years when they were wardecced?
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#74 - 2012-09-27 15:42:14 UTC
Karah Serrigan wrote:

If an alliance with outgoing wars cant accept new corporation, how are corporations able to join Dec Shield and spread new wars then?

Dec Shield is only experiencing INCOMING wars, thus we can recruit as many corps as we want without consequence.

Reppyk wrote:
EDIT : ZO, will you make your maths ? You can beat Privateer's wardec record ! Pirate

What's their wardec record? We're pretty high ourselves

Burn Highsec Griefers
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#75 - 2012-09-27 15:44:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Pipa Porto wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
But these aren't just normal wars we're holding over them, these are outgoing wars. And alliance with an outgoing war CANNOT recruit another corporation to the alliance, ever again. If any corporations ever leave that alliance, they'll also have outgoing wars. A corporation with an outgoing war CANNOT join an alliance, ever again.


Wait, seriously?

Jesus Christ CCP.



Solution:

Once a war is mutual, calling people the aggressor and the defender is pointless. Treat them the same way.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Pipa Porto
#76 - 2012-09-27 19:08:01 UTC
Karah Serrigan wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

During that Wardec, weren't they too busy with HAG suicide ganking Hulks?

You mean because there was only a short time frame of 2 months before the patch when this was possible rather than ALL the years when they were wardecced?


Whe?

I was responding to the claim that suicide ganking freighters was only possible because they weren't wardecced. I pointed out that, during the last big wardec they weren't suicide ganking freighters because they were too busy suicide ganking exhumers.

As a big old bonus, being wardecced would not affect their suicide gank strategies with Freighters either (from what I understand, they spend most of their time logged off to avoid ze faction Popo, only logging in once the target is picked and bumped off the gate).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Karah Serrigan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-09-27 19:26:25 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Karah Serrigan wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

During that Wardec, weren't they too busy with HAG suicide ganking Hulks?

You mean because there was only a short time frame of 2 months before the patch when this was possible rather than ALL the years when they were wardecced?


Whe?

I was responding to the claim that suicide ganking freighters was only possible because they weren't wardecced. I pointed out that, during the last big wardec they weren't suicide ganking freighters because they were too busy suicide ganking exhumers.

As a big old bonus, being wardecced would not affect their suicide gank strategies with Freighters either (from what I understand, they spend most of their time logged off to avoid ze faction Popo, only logging in once the target is picked and bumped off the gate).

Yes and i made the claim because they arent doing by alpha strikes. They are using the cheapest hull they can get, catalysts, brutixes, and bump things offgate to get as much time as possible. If they were wardecced, they would have to switch to arty ships and get one shot off on the gate, or do it with alts out of alliance. But they, being goonswarm, crave for attention, so doing it in alt characters is out of the questions and we wouldnt have a 20 pages long "goon freighter suicide gank" thread.

As to the hulkageddon thing, it wasnt an operation in one system, you cant hunt catalysts in whole eve. But you can camp a single system and wait for their freighter ganking squad. And they were constantly and repeatedly wardecced by different highsec griefing corps/alliances, probably for longer than 5 hulkageddon durations combined.
Pipa Porto
#78 - 2012-09-27 19:44:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Karah Serrigan wrote:

Yes and i made the claim because they arent doing by alpha strikes. They are using the cheapest hull they can get, catalysts, brutixes, and bump things offgate to get as much time as possible. If they were wardecced, they would have to switch to arty ships and get one shot off on the gate, or do it with alts out of alliance. But they, being goonswarm, crave for attention, so doing it in alt characters is out of the questions and we wouldnt have a 20 pages long "goon freighter suicide gank" thread.

As to the hulkageddon thing, it wasnt an operation in one system, you cant hunt catalysts in whole eve. But you can camp a single system and wait for their freighter ganking squad. And they were constantly and repeatedly wardecced by different highsec griefing corps/alliances, probably for longer than 5 hulkageddon durations combined.


If they were wardecced, they'd simply keep bumping until the WT gets bored and stops following them, or they'd have an alt gank squad set up for when WTs are around. Or they'd just gank the WTs.

Or, they'd switch to Arty and either alpha through the WTs before ganking the freighter or alpha the freighter. What's that fleet composition that they were using to take large swaths of space? The Alpha doctrine? I wonder what principle it operates on...

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#79 - 2012-09-27 22:39:35 UTC
Gerard Gendri wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
They don't all bail. Only about 20% of our victims have bailed. And since we'll continue to accumulate them, the choice of highsec targets we're holding captive will only get better. Some entities will never be able to escape or disband like the nullsec alliances. If any of them are foolish enough to declare wars they'll end up screwed.


You actually think that a wardec makes any impact at all on a nullsec alliance?


Learn the game you're playing before you make stupid implications.
Tolene
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-09-28 18:17:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tolene
Despite some people expectations c0ven will not die because of a perma war in Hisek. Hisek warriors must realize that people who live in null sec spend 99% of their game time in null sec where they can shoot anyone they please. Our pubies are brought to null sec within 24/48 hours after they join up. We have no use for people who refuse to live in null sec. Only logistics must venture into hisek on regular basis but they can easily avoid wardecs.


The Zerg Overmind wrote:

Yes, I'm quite positive that wardecs have massive effects on nullsec alliances. Moar Tears demonstrated this over and over again by killing dozens of jump freighters every month that belonged to nullsec alliances. Nullsec alliances don't have military arms in highsec, thus their lowbies get picked off regularily.


From a null sec perspective a hisek war usually generates loses in the first 24-48 hours of fighting. Mostly people that die are people who did not read the war notification or thought that they will be lucky. In null sec alliances 95% of the logistics are done by NPC corp alts therefore susceptible only to ganks. Method may be bothersome but works just fine. For example not a single c0ven logistic ship were lost to war targets since our perma war with Penumbra started.

The Zerg Overmind wrote:

Fine you say, so they deserve that. But these aren't just normal wars we're holding over them, these are outgoing wars. And alliance with an outgoing war CANNOT recruit another corporation to the alliance, ever again. If any corporations ever leave that alliance, they'll also have outgoing wars. A corporation with an outgoing war CANNOT join an alliance, ever again.


This is the only real drawback of a perma war. But it can be easily bypassed by creating a sacrificial corp and joining it in order to join null sec ally. After you get bored you can just disband the corp and join your old one as wars don't follow players.

On the other hand c0ven can now wardec their null sec enemies without any remorse. Our war with tribal band was a nice change of pace. We had tons of fun and can now say that null sec is a lot better place for pvp Big smile

On the topic of mechanics one simple change would solve the issue and made the wardecs work as intended. In case of mutual war both sides should be flagged as aggressors. Both the aggressor and defender have to make a conscious decision about declaring war on each other. Only way to get out of war would be surrender or disband for both sides of the conflict which in my opinion would make the system fair.