EVE General Discussion

Nobody reads that part. Here let me make it simpler for you.



And for the dense among you



I guess we really condone botting.

I'm getting the feeling that people tried the "nice" route on extinguishing bots. After throwing all their pillows at the Botters and CCP all people have left now is fire and pitchforks..

Working as intended..

If we can't detect bots for certain, and have no tools or means to verify the difference between a player grinding and a machine grinding, and CCP is the only one with that power, how will we know that they have actually succeeded in clamping down on bots?

What is to stop these threads from persisting even if CCP says - "We have take the time to code bots to fight the bots. Your suspicious nullsec ratters / higsec miners have been investigated, and are found to be simply unemployed players who grind most of the day because they have no real jobs. All illegal activity though, is being identified and squashed, our anti-bot bots are responding and adapting to coding changes as they are presented, everything is working fine." Everyone's still going to call bullshit.

Demanding that CCP works on the problem from the coding angle does not address the main problem driving this thread - people believing pretty much whatever the hell they want about botting, without being satifsfied by promises coming from people they don't trust to begin with.



Thank you, and no, I don't need to see the code. You (despite being a pompous ass) answered my question quite nicely, there just isn't a need to be nasty about it.

I don't really care if you care about my opinion or not, at least now I know (1) way that bots operate. That wasn't so hard, was it? I appreciate your time and effort even if you dont think it was worth giving to an ignorant cretin like myself.

I guess what I don't understand still - is that even if Bayesian filtering can be used to identify patterns in ratting behavior, or scripts can be used to identify offenders like Shai-hulud said, how would we as players know they are working? Would you believe CCP if they said they were? What is the evidence needed from CCP to satiate player doubt?

Most modern, progressive, justice systems maintain "innocence until proven guilty". At least in the United States, while imperfect in execution (pardon the pun), the moral belief at least is that it is better to let a few criminal go unpunished, rather than convict innocents.

Why is it that in Eve, suspicious behavior is supposed to be acted upon with severe action, and we do not give players the same benefit of the doubt that we do to accused law-breakers out of game? I don't mean this to spark a political discussion, I guess I'm just struggling with what it will take to make the "bots are ruining eve and ccp ignores the issue" crowd satisfied that CCP is doing their job correctly. Is banning all CNR's that warp to suns when their shields fail a fair solution? If I go out in a Navy Raven and rat, and someone reports me, CCP investigates and sees evidence I am a real player and does not ban me, will the reporting player be willing accept that outcome as reasonable?

This just seems like something that can never be resolved - players can't prove that bots are bots, CCP can't prove that they know that bots are bots and are squashing bots, players dont trust CCP regardless of what CCP says. What is the endgame here?

that's the site I was referring to: http://www.reportbots.com/university/

Thank you H.E., it took a lot of courage to come on here and explain that you have learned a lot yourself through the course of this and other discussions.

Your point is exactly correct, it takes ALL OF US to fix or stamp down the proliferation of bots in EVE Online.

It esp. takes us finding more legitimate ways to discourage the use of RMT services to begin with, which would go a lot farther than any report button or developer typing away at all hours of the night trying to keep up with the next wave of bot routines.

Again thank for the candid response, you have earned the respect here of anyone else who is also willing to compromise, or come to terms with having been educated further on a situation they made not have had a full understanding of prior.

Awesome!! This is very helpful, much appreciated. I will certainly review this, and keep an eye out from now on and see if I can observe this stuff happening on the scale it is being reported to happen.

I never claimed to have absolute knowledge on the issue, its why I'm asking questions, sharing opinions, and taking the time to write my "walls o text". All I can do is keep an open mind, and encourage other people to have an open mind as well, and not just to jump to the conclusion we are all being ****** over by a CCP/GSF conspiracy.

You were probably in diapers when I was dealing with god moders, auto killers, teleporters, ear collectors, and etc. in the original Diablo. It got silly enough at one point that people started throwing around terms like PKK, for player killer killer, those who hacked to kill hackers so the rest of us could enjoy the game still with a public server to meet new people and recruit for guilds. I was the PKK for my guild towards the end because it was impossible to play a public server anymore without someone to drive out the trainers. You will know when EVE is getting truly bad when people start hacking to combat the bot problem itself and rationalizing it as effective means to eradicate exploitation.

Hint: We're not there yet.
Tip: When we get there, just unsubscribe, trust me.

TDLR

Get out.

Endie update sends forums into a frenzied tailspin? Mission accomplished.

I like the part where you post evidence

Oh, this is good. LOL! So instead of you doing your job, you want us to do it for you. It's now the players that are responsible for proving if someone is botting or not.