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Too-Boku
Doomheim
#461 - 2012-08-30 17:06:53 UTC
Barakach wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Are there any people left who aren't cowards or plain idiots ? o_O


It's funny you bring that up. I always felt that someone who shoots at a poor, defenceless rock all day was both a coward & an idiot.


Are you saying that they should just remove mining from the game?


I'm saying: quit watering the game down. Soon we'll be respawning upon death in a station with our ship and a repair bill.
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#462 - 2012-08-30 17:20:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Matriarch Prime
Removed:

I think what I said was inappropriate. I apologize to any that read it.

I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point!
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#463 - 2012-08-30 17:48:48 UTC
Agreh Tensenn wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
^: other dude who made an actual thought out post, I'm on anterrible phone right now so I can't get you a source bu it was basically that CCP thought cost would balance and prevent supercap dominance/proliferation.they were terribly wrong and admitted it in a CSM minutes, thread or devblog..


That is an interesting part of EVE History from before my time I'm afraid, I haven't been around too long. Not long enough to really have that many opinions maybe. I still don't think that matter really relates to suicide ganking. I would agree it would relate or apply to general ship balancing though.

Edit: I think this is one of the related posts: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=696


That's before they admitted that using cost as a balancing factor for super capitals was a bad idea but you're on the right track there. The reason it applies to suicide ganking right now is that they are using cost as an attempt to balance highsec aggression which will turn out badly. Cost should never be used as a balancing factor.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#464 - 2012-08-30 18:17:33 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

I'm curious as to the number of ships whose base HP would allow them to be ganked for profit before even counting module drops. In the example above the mission ship has to add something to their ship to make it worth the gank, the exhumers on the other hand were stated as being profitable based on potential salvage alone with no tank before the changes.



An untanked heavy assault cruiser, untanked recon ship, untanked logistic cruiser, untanked marauder and just about any untanked t2 frigate can be blown up for profit.

Just like the hulk however they need to have at least some mods fitted to make them worthwhile.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#465 - 2012-08-30 18:21:55 UTC
the" they just changed EvE and now nobody is playing ,how i like it" thread is going outside this forum?ShockedShockedShocked

R.S.I2014
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#466 - 2012-08-30 18:55:40 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
I think this is probably the first topic I have created in over 3 years on Eve Forums, but after reading the linked article I came to the conclusion that every single Eve player needs to read it. I would be very curious to hear the opinions on it.

http://themittani.com/features/road-nerfdom-highsecs-carebear-future



It needs the TL;DR of all TL;DR's
I still read it though

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
#467 - 2012-08-30 19:18:55 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Matriarch Prime wrote:
Anunzi wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
CCP 'nerfed' the loot for level 4 missions (which the tough guys wanted) and now the pixel hardmen are complaing that it is actually a 'nerf' against them as it reduces the profits from ninja looting!

Quite funny really.



I don’t mean just the loot. I mean bounties, mining yield, ramp up sales tax etc. Make it so that making ISK in highsec is representative of the risks involved. When it gets to the point of there being 0 risk then there should be close to 0 profit.


Its only fair. Or do you want it have an ISK faucet with 0 risk?


Yes, lets cripple the economy while we are at it. Or are those ship just going to magically build and fit themselves? You don't get rich grinding. It just doesn't happen. Rich happens when the greater output exceeds greater input, and grinding is linear, you get exactly the same ratio for X effort, as you do 10X effort.

Or are you just mad that roaming around for hours contributing nothing to the game but a target is actually adding more value to the economy than someone grinding that whole time.


Thats true to a degree. Level Missions earn X amount of ISK/hour and their is a kind of invisible ceilling you really can't beyond and I don't consider manufacurting, reasearch and other forms of economic play part of the PvE formula.. Another words I have no issue with a docked up carebear making billions because he knows how to manipulate the market. But most ventures in Eve take starting capital and usually lots of it and the general way people manage that capital is through things like mission running. It should be slower to ensure that a billionare manufacurer or trader is such because he put some work into the game.

I mean you give me a billion ISK and I will make 200-300 million ISK a day with it with a 1 day old character. Getting that billion however for a day old character is not possible. That ratio... to get from A to Z is pretty f'ed up right now. I can start a new character today and one week from now with no help from anyone I will have 100 million ISK in my wallet. Three weeks I will have 500 million ISk and I will be a Billionare within two-three weeks after that. It will take some efrort and considerable play time, but to me if you can become a billionare in high sec after a month or so, there is something seriously wrong with the game.

Notably if I started a new character and went straight to 0.0 or low sec, a month later I will be as broke as I started no matter what I do.


You say that if I give you a billion you can make 200 - 300 million a day with a one day old character...yes you can, using your previous 7 years worth of experience of EVE on that one-day old character. I do not accept that a true one-day player, never having had any experience of EVE in any way and playing solo without any external help, can do anything realistic other than fly around and maybe do some of the tutorials.

I'm a casual player (a couple of hours a day, usually) and although my main is 3 years old, it's unusual to have more than about 100m ISK at any time...so I play to that level of ISK. I can't afford (and have no interest in) losing a 200 mil ship every other day!
Zanarkand
Primal Instinct Inc.
The Initiative.
#468 - 2012-08-30 19:37:12 UTC
I didn't miss that part, and I don't see how it is relevant.

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

"D-scan nerf"
I fail to see how with local it makes any difference just how effective d-scan is. Not to mention it's a flawless intel tool that both parties can use.


Actually, it used be a lot quicker to pinpoint something down to exact location, now the farmer has extra time to warp off. These seconds make all the difference between a successful tackle and the farmer warping off.

Quote:

"Moving farming from belts to anoms/deadspace"
A lot of people still run the belts looking for rare spawns, and also because we find it more enjoyable than sitting still in an anom pressing F1 over and over again. Anoms also don't make things particularly safer, since there's only three of the top tier anoms in a level 5 military system, which increases your likelihood of finding someone there.


Anoms are still a lot harder to scan for than belts. Even if you blind-warp to the best anoms, you still have to wait 10s for the scan. Now, if you actually try find the correct site, you have to play around with scanner and system map, both which add even more delay compared to the belt scanning.


Quote:

"Nerfing nanogangs made it harder to roam"
It's not hard to roam at all. Not sure where you're getting this idea.


Roaming gangs did lose considerable power that they used have, much to the benefit of 0.0 bears.


Quote:

"Standings in local"
Yes, because I should be forced to show info for every pilot that enters the system. Roll


I am not saying it was a bad change, but you can't dismiss that this change made following local a lot easier, thus safer. You can't keep adding layers of defense to 0.0/lowsec players, and at the same time say that there haven't been any nerfs to 0.0 risk.

Quote:

1."JB on deathstar POSes"
Oh no, you can't camp an enemy's jump bridge with a small gang? Working as intended, you see. Why should you be able to?

2."JF/capital hauling"
The one thing I grant, is that yes this makes logistics easier, but the end result of that is cheaper modules and ships, leading to more pew pew for everybody, which is a good thing.


1. Because you could camp 0.0 traffic far more easily before this change? Because maybe, just maybe, small gangs didn't deserve that nerf at all?

If you think "working as intended" is a good reason, then you shouldn't post in this thread at all, because obviously CCP thinks highsec aggression needs nerfs and all the changes they have done are working as intended.


2. I have nothing against easier logistics, but I do have a problem with making logistics too safe.

All these changes we are talking about, most of them did improve the game a lot, but could have been done different, for example nerf local a bit to compensate for local boosts, make JB anchorable at stars or planets, make cyno jumping at a station impossible - but instead CCP chose to nerf non-consensual pvp in 0.0.
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#469 - 2012-08-31 06:32:21 UTC
Quote:


You say that if I give you a billion you can make 200 - 300 million a day with a one day old character...yes you can, using your previous 7 years worth of experience of EVE on that one-day old character. I do not accept that a true one-day player, never having had any experience of EVE in any way and playing solo without any external help, can do anything realistic other than fly around and maybe do some of the tutorials.

I'm a casual player (a couple of hours a day, usually) and although my main is 3 years old, it's unusual to have more than about 100m ISK at any time...so I play to that level of ISK. I can't afford (and have no interest in) losing a 200 mil ship every other day!


Well in my defense I did say I could do it, I wouldn't expect most people to have my level of understanding of the game coming in new to the game of the street. I'm just pointing out that its possible, made easier by the fact that things like running missions and incursions in high sec offer a wildly profitable and risk free environment to do it in, far better than anything you can do in wormhole, Null and especially Low Sec which is one of the most upside down regions of space for Risk vs. Reward, being extremely hazardous and only a slight bump above what you can do with no risk at all in High Sec.

Anyone who disagrees that High Sec offers the best Risk vs. Reward ratio doesn't understand this game at all.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#470 - 2012-08-31 10:03:07 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

I believe it's too easy for my Tengu fit for Guristas to be ganked.
CCP needs to bring native EM resists to at least 75% without any tank mods. Buff the other resists as well. I shouldn't have to tank to make ganking expensive for my adversaries.

we all happy that you finally got money to buy tengu. Cool
YOUR A GREAT

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#471 - 2012-08-31 10:05:14 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Anyone who disagrees that High Sec offers the best Risk vs. Reward ratio doesn't understand this game at all.

any numbers to prove your point?
Ratios of Risk/Reward for high-sec, low-sec/0.0/WH please

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#472 - 2012-08-31 10:43:49 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
Anyone who disagrees that High Sec offers the best Risk vs. Reward ratio doesn't understand this game at all.

any numbers to prove your point?
Ratios of Risk/Reward for high-sec, low-sec/0.0/WH please


Yeah 6 years playing the ******* game.. there is your numbers.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#473 - 2012-08-31 12:44:34 UTC
Came expecting some poster to be posting a mittani blog post. Left disappointed.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Katika play
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#474 - 2012-08-31 14:10:35 UTC
That sure was a alot of words just to say:

"It's harder to kill carebears in highsec there for it's harder for Goons to manipulate the market."

I guess the real "fear" (perhaps worry is a better word) comes in the ability to play the market as they've done before.
Like with the Gallente ice thing that happended.

It's quite uniqe that something like that is even possible in a game.
Not really sure I would like to see something like that go away. Even though it seriously hurt my wallet when it happended. Lol
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#475 - 2012-08-31 14:15:58 UTC
Dajli wrote:
TL;DR:

CCP is a company that makes a product . They want to make profits. They will welcome anybody who wants to play. If you don't like the game you don't play. More people will play based on CCP's business decisions.


Nuff said. Cry moar Nulls.


Couldn't be more wrong, if CCP would welcome anyone who wanted to play, they would have made the whole game high sec with pvp flaging and no death penalties (and we'd have 8 millionish players playing in EVE 25 servers because 1 shard couldn't do it)

Some one else can link the EVE producer talking about "the players it's ok to lose", or you can find it yourself, but most people know that EVE isn't for everyone, and people like you should stop trying to make it that way.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#476 - 2012-08-31 14:17:26 UTC
Clystan wrote:
Which statement do you agree with most?

A) No limit holdem > Limit Holdem > Old Maid
B) Limit holdem > No limit holdem > Old Maid
C) Old Maid > *

If you answered A - goto low sec
If you answered B - split your time between high-sec and low sec
If you answered C - stay in high sec





rofl

Well put
Drekarg
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#477 - 2012-08-31 14:25:07 UTC
No CCP replies to this threadnaught yet? Interesting.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#478 - 2012-08-31 14:42:08 UTC
Drekarg wrote:
No CCP replies to this threadnaught yet? Interesting.


Silent disappointment cannot be put in post format.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Duran Veldspur
First Imperial Caldari Bank
#479 - 2012-08-31 14:48:56 UTC
Roderick Grey wrote:
I still don't understand why it's such a big deal that carebears can chill in highsec without harassment unless they're wardecced.

The money's terrible there anyway...



Because those who use internet space ships to fill the void in their ego or adjust for their small....stature, want to control other peoples game so its easier for them to...inflate themselves. Kind of like the bossy husband who can't make it in the real world so he is a frustrated tyrant to his wife and children who just want peace.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#480 - 2012-08-31 14:59:24 UTC
Duran Veldspur wrote:
Roderick Grey wrote:
I still don't understand why it's such a big deal that carebears can chill in highsec without harassment unless they're wardecced.

The money's terrible there anyway...



Because those who use internet space ships to fill the void in their ego or adjust for their small....stature, want to control other peoples game so its easier for them to...inflate themselves. Kind of like the bossy husband who can't make it in the real world so he is a frustrated tyrant to his wife and children who just want peace.


Your post would be cooler if you used the example of the teacher who is a jerk to his students because he has a tyrant for a wife.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.