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My income increased 5 fold from missions?
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Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Venture
#1 - 2012-08-26 23:57:57 UTC
Hi, so I recently came back to eve after a year or so off, I used to do missions for income and plex, the reason I quit was the grind for plex took so long. It used to take me abaout 12 days solid grinding to earn enough isk for a plex, but today on my first day back I've been ill and still rusty to the game so I haven't really been very efficient in my play today, I think I've only completed and salvaged 4 or 5 missions and bought a few skill books.

At the start of the day I had 1 mill isk, now I'm sat on 137mill? I don't understand, I didn't particularly pick up more expensive items than I used to or anything, can anybody shed some light on this for me and btw I'm not complaining, just very confused.
Beta Stryker
Yet Another Holding Corporation
#2 - 2012-08-27 00:30:02 UTC
Too many variables here, over the length of one year. Prices fluctuate, maybe your play style changed??
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-08-27 07:44:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
assuming you are running lvl4 missions, ~140 mil is not an exceptional figure for several hours of work. you must have been doing something wrong before.

just fyi: there are missions with over 20 mil in bounties alone, such as the blockade.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Seraph Castillon
Death Metal Frogs
Ribbit.
#4 - 2012-08-27 08:00:00 UTC
Mineral prices seem to have sky-rocketed (still haven't figured out why myself). So some loot items will be worth more. Other than that ~140 mil over 5 missions doesn't seem that odd, if they were all reasonably good ones.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#5 - 2012-08-27 08:14:02 UTC
Seraph Castillon wrote:
Mineral prices seem to have sky-rocketed (still haven't figured out why myself). So some loot items will be worth more. Other than that ~140 mil over 5 missions doesn't seem that odd, if they were all reasonably good ones.


i think it's because mining ships got buffed (much less ganking) and more afk mining
Astald Ohtar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-08-27 11:07:39 UTC
So you are posting to ask us, how you managed to make more money ? how are we supposed to know that?
Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Venture
#7 - 2012-08-27 11:26:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlynn Askyra
Astald Ohtar wrote:
So you are posting to ask us, how you managed to make more money ? how are we supposed to know that?


No, I'm asking if any other mission runners has noticed an increase in their earnings at some point during the year, which is due to an external reason, so I can understand and maybe try to exploit it, e.g seraph castillon said mineral prices are higher, the price of modules hasn't changed so maybe I should think about levelling re-precessing.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-08-27 11:34:51 UTC
nahjustwarpin wrote:
Seraph Castillon wrote:
Mineral prices seem to have sky-rocketed (still haven't figured out why myself). So some loot items will be worth more. Other than that ~140 mil over 5 missions doesn't seem that odd, if they were all reasonably good ones.


i think it's because mining ships got buffed (much less ganking) and more afk mining


The removal of base T1 modules and drone compounds from the loot tables would be a better explanation for that change.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-08-27 12:15:23 UTC
Even 2 years ago people consistently talked about making 35 mill an hour running L4 missions. Some claim 100 mill plus but that varies quite a bit.

One change is with respect to missions - now they are broken more cleanly than before with "Security" missions that don't mix in other types. I *think* that happened about a year ago. As such, working for a security outfit, you aren't getting the occasional courier mission anymore and that can/will impact your income.

Here's an old thread from about a year ago on how much someone made while doing missions. It should help a bit reading all the discussions on it. Note that they were running a high-end mission ship so will probably do better than you would.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=15990
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-08-27 12:17:18 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Astald Ohtar wrote:
So you are posting to ask us, how you managed to make more money ? how are we supposed to know that?


No, I'm asking if any other mission runners has noticed an increase in their earnings at some point during the year, which is due to an external reason, so I can understand and maybe try to exploit it, e.g seraph castillon said mineral prices are higher, the price of modules hasn't changed so maybe I should think about levelling re-precessing.


regarding minerals, the main thing that changed is that since the loot nerf, most minerals are now actually generated by mining ships and not by noctis (noctii?). salvaging *some* missions is probably still worth it when compared to flying the next mission, but it largely depends on your actual kill speed.
i for once do not bother with salvaging anymore because i doubt that it will live up to my 20mil bounty ticks.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Caitlynn Askyra
Unity Venture
#11 - 2012-08-27 13:00:19 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:
Astald Ohtar wrote:
So you are posting to ask us, how you managed to make more money ? how are we supposed to know that?


No, I'm asking if any other mission runners has noticed an increase in their earnings at some point during the year, which is due to an external reason, so I can understand and maybe try to exploit it, e.g seraph castillon said mineral prices are higher, the price of modules hasn't changed so maybe I should think about levelling re-precessing.


regarding minerals, the main thing that changed is that since the loot nerf, most minerals are now actually generated by mining ships and not by noctis (noctii?). salvaging *some* missions is probably still worth it when compared to flying the next mission, but it largely depends on your actual kill speed.
i for once do not bother with salvaging anymore because i doubt that it will live up to my 20mil bounty ticks.


IMO | think salvaging is mostly worth it, it takes about 10 minutes for me to salvage a mission, sometimes less time, yesterday my salvage added up to 104mill for the day. So for me personally it will be a while before i can clear missions fast enough to ignore salvaging.

Thanks for that link mocam.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-08-27 14:52:47 UTC
New Eden is in an inflationary period now, which is why CCP has made some of the changes they have (nerfing Drone alloy drops, for example). Too many ISK faucets, not enough ISK sinks. FW has some mechanics problems that have led people to farm LP, which they turn into ISK via the LP stores. Also, not enough ships are getting blown up due to well-known problems with low security space. Until CCP somehow figures out how to improve the risk/reward formula in lowsec, it's going to remain a drag on the economy.

Loot drops in anoms and plexes also seems to be worse -- even high-meta drops are getting to be rare. I think this is CCP's way of turning down the ISK faucet and trying to put a damper on inflation.

I'd say that in terms of gameplay, 500M ISK now is probably worth what 200M ISK was a couple of years ago in terms of player time invested.

At base I think the problem is that there's not enough PVP combat to grind up ships, which really is the core of EVE's economy: ships have to get blowed up in large numbers to keep the economy humming. That hasn't been happing enough, but the ISK faucets just keep spouting -- the FW changes, the mining barge changes, and so on.

In RL, it's rather like the Keynesian "stimulus" here in the US that was passed back in 2009. The object was to inject a lot of money directly into the economy in hopes of stimulating both production *and* consumption. But the stimulus was all on the production/infrastructure side -- the consumers didn't respond to the stimulus, and the spare capital basically just went into storage in banks. There's plenty of supply of goods, just not much demand. (There are also long-term structural problems in the US economy with debt and social welfare spending that don't exist in EVE, so it's not a perfect analogy.)

In New Eden, it's easier to make money and buy good stuff, but at some point you've got enough -- you don't need to keep buying gear because you're not losing any of the stuff you already have. So the producers are trying to sell into a saturated market.

I'm sure that CCP is aware of the issue. Maybe nullsec has become too static, with the big alliances skirmishing at the borders but not really engaging in protracted fleet actions. Lowsec PVP combat (or lack thereof) has been a concern for a long time. FW was supposed to be a way to train players for PVP combat in lowsec, but due to problems with the mechanics it has turned into a huge ISK faucet but an insufficient ISK sink.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-08-27 16:56:44 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
New Eden is in an inflationary period now, which is why CCP has made some of the changes they have (nerfing Drone alloy drops, for example). Too many ISK faucets, not enough ISK sinks. FW has some mechanics problems that have led people to farm LP, which they turn into ISK via the LP stores. Also, not enough ships are getting blown up due to well-known problems with low security space. Until CCP somehow figures out how to improve the risk/reward formula in lowsec, it's going to remain a drag on the economy.

Loot drops in anoms and plexes also seems to be worse -- even high-meta drops are getting to be rare. I think this is CCP's way of turning down the ISK faucet and trying to put a damper on inflation.

I'd say that in terms of gameplay, 500M ISK now is probably worth what 200M ISK was a couple of years ago in terms of player time invested.

At base I think the problem is that there's not enough PVP combat to grind up ships, which really is the core of EVE's economy: ships have to get blowed up in large numbers to keep the economy humming. That hasn't been happing enough, but the ISK faucets just keep spouting -- the FW changes, the mining barge changes, and so on.

In RL, it's rather like the Keynesian "stimulus" here in the US that was passed back in 2009. The object was to inject a lot of money directly into the economy in hopes of stimulating both production *and* consumption. But the stimulus was all on the production/infrastructure side -- the consumers didn't respond to the stimulus, and the spare capital basically just went into storage in banks. There's plenty of supply of goods, just not much demand. (There are also long-term structural problems in the US economy with debt and social welfare spending that don't exist in EVE, so it's not a perfect analogy.)

In New Eden, it's easier to make money and buy good stuff, but at some point you've got enough -- you don't need to keep buying gear because you're not losing any of the stuff you already have. So the producers are trying to sell into a saturated market.

I'm sure that CCP is aware of the issue. Maybe nullsec has become too static, with the big alliances skirmishing at the borders but not really engaging in protracted fleet actions. Lowsec PVP combat (or lack thereof) has been a concern for a long time. FW was supposed to be a way to train players for PVP combat in lowsec, but due to problems with the mechanics it has turned into a huge ISK faucet but an insufficient ISK sink.


please disregard everything this person said.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-08-27 17:06:58 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
please disregard everything this person said.


Ooooh, BURN!

Your intelligence dazzles the mind even when it's not obviously in evidence. Like in that post.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2012-08-27 17:33:30 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
please disregard everything this person said.


Ooooh, BURN!

Your intelligence dazzles the mind even when it's not obviously in evidence. Like in that post.


He's right though. Your post is very, very poor economic analysis. You keep claiming that you're talking about inflation and the supply of money but end up talking about the supply of goods (drops) which do nothing but move money around and worse yet complain about LP stores -- which actually remove ISK from the economy and have exactly the opposite effect that you claim.

Moreover, ship losses are not ISK sinks. In fact, every lost ship creates ISK out of nowhere. Do you, the player, lose money? Yes. Does the economy lose money? Absolutely not; it creates inflation.

So buck up and keep reading. But you're out and out wrong in your economics rant.
Shiganaru
Ignis Aeternus Imperium
#16 - 2012-08-27 21:56:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiganaru
There have been several changes to missions over the past year or so that have resulted in more ISK from missions.

  • Some missions were reworked or rebalanced to give more bounties or rewards for their difficulty.
  • Combat Agents, now only give Combat missions. No more random time-consuming courier or mining missions from a combat agent.
  • Loot Tables were changed, such as the increase in quantity of metal scraps
  • Market fluctuations, everything is double to triple the price of what it was last year.


As for mineral prices, there are a lot of reasons for the current price spike.

  • Hulkageddon / Burn Jita events.
  • Removal of Drone Alloys as Loot
  • Changes to Mining Ships
  • Changes in Ownership of Null-Sec.
Marsan
#17 - 2012-08-28 01:23:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsan
Idris Helion wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
please disregard everything this person said.


Ooooh, BURN!

Your intelligence dazzles the mind even when it's not obviously in evidence. Like in that post.


Mainly because you are talking about things you plainly don't understand. Like the game and/or basic economic theory. (Despite using a lot of big words.)

A) "Loot drops in anoms and plexes also seems to be worse -- even high-meta drops are getting to be rare. I think this is CCP's way of turning down the ISK faucet and trying to put a damper on inflation."

- Loot almost never results in isk coming into the economy. (Unless it's sleepers in wspace.)
- Lowering the rate of drops increases the price on those drop. Thus possibly increasing inflation.
- Not to mention you are just wrong about the high meta drop decrease. (Yes they replaced all drops that players could make with scraps, but they didn't mess with the drop rates.)

B) Ships blowing up an isk sink?

- If a ship blows up you get insurance which adds isk to the economy.
- The isk you paid for the ship is still in player hands.
- So more ships blowing up increases the amount isk in circulation. (And in my experience increases ship prices.)

C) "FW has some mechanics problems that have led people to farm LP, which they turn into ISK via the LP stores."

- Actually you turn the LP in along with isk for items. (thus an isk sink)
- These items are then sold to players. (This is isk neutral)
- The glut of FW items actually lowers the price of these items on the market. (Might reduce inflation to some degree.)
- When these modules get blown up there is no insurance for them.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-08-29 04:00:14 UTC
Caitlynn Askyra wrote:


At the start of the day I had 1 mill isk, now I'm sat on 137mill? I don't understand, I didn't particularly pick up more expensive items than I used to or anything, can anybody shed some light on this for me and btw I'm not complaining, just very confused.



Please do note the inflation .... 130 mil would have bought you a fitted t1 battleship back then. Now it hardly even gets you a proper hull.
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#19 - 2012-08-29 13:34:20 UTC
looting missions/anoms is giving a disgusting amount of isk atm, even tho salvage prices are thure the floor compared to a year ago a avg 0.0 hub will yield about 20m isk in loot/salvage and a avg of about 27m in bounties make of those numbers what you will.
Tamara Naari
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-08-29 14:55:07 UTC
Really guys, do you not understand what an ISK faucet is? Salvage and loot is NOT an isk faucet, yes YOU are gaining money, however it is coming from someone who already has the money. An isk faucet is isk created from no where. Bounties, ship insurance, blue tags from sleep loot..

Lp stuff is not an isk faucet as you use lp AND ISK to purchase it, hence it is an isk sink.

Losing a ship, this i can see where people get confused. You pay 100 mil for a ship, you then lose said ship, you gain insurance from that ship (insurance is an isk faucet). No where is isk removed from the game in that category.

Even simpler terms. isk faucet is when isk is created out of the blue, isk sink is when it's removed from the game. think about that, buying something isn't an isk sink it is simply re-arranging the isk's location.
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