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Why Goonswarm needs to go

First post
Author
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#41 - 2012-08-24 12:44:53 UTC
So it was the Goons, who convinced CCP to release Incarna and add MTs that led to the massive unsubs, which caused CCP to layoff 20%. Mittens you cunning **** you.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

Lysanne Reqetta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-08-24 12:46:08 UTC
It's funny how everyone bitches about Goons in approximately all the other threads, but as soon as a thread like this comes up, or someone actually tries to do something about Goons, the only people you hear from are people supporting the Goons.

Blatant alt posting? In my EVE? It's more likely than you think.

NEVER FORGET - NOVEMBER 2013 - THE GREAT SIGNATURE MASSACRE

Tiger Would
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-08-24 12:47:47 UTC
No More Heroes wrote:
Everywhere I go, there I am.

It's a conundrum! Cool


I got the same issue, its a miracle!

Lets do some laughing yoga to let go of some of that stress shall we?

Once you think you have it all, you have actually become ignorant towards everything else.

T. Would

Ghazu
#44 - 2012-08-24 12:48:12 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
So it was the Goons, who convinced CCP to release Incarna and add MTs that led to the massive unsubs, which caused CCP to layoff 20%. Mittens you cunning **** you.


TBH the whole cyberbully thing was such a coward's way out to shed responsibility of 'greed is good gold ammo and space barbies' just come out and own your mistakes Mittens we know you did it.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

Tiger Would
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-08-24 12:54:13 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
So it was the Goons, who convinced CCP to release Incarna and add MTs that led to the massive unsubs, which caused CCP to layoff 20%. Mittens you cunning **** you.


TBH the whole cyberbully thing was such a coward's way out to shed responsibility of 'greed is good gold ammo and space barbies' just come out and own your mistakes Mittens we know you did it.


Special lessons, free of charge

Once you think you have it all, you have actually become ignorant towards everything else.

T. Would

Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#46 - 2012-08-24 12:54:34 UTC
I can't speak to the individual incidents or people in Goonswarm, recognizing the fact that there are A-holes everywhere but my impression of Goonswarms impact is for the most part globally positive. I certainly have swapped paint with Goons on the battlefiled with thankless and idiotic members and traded typos on the forum with what I can imagine are the worse of their bunch so I can understand the perception that "all Goons are XXXX curse words", but ultimately you can't judge an alliance of thousands of players by the actions of a few tards.

In a discussion about "what have Goons done for the game globally", I can't help but be hard press to name something they did that didnt turn out to interesting at the very least. Obviously some things are bad for certain players, Hulkegedon for example was probably bad for people flying Hulks, but at least its an event, something is going on in the game... its pulse is beating.

Just in recent events like putting a spotlight on the failure of WiS or with Mittans new suprisingly well written and informative website it seems to me Goons are good at least for meta game to the benefit of the Eve player at large.

Sure we can ***** about things... I don't care for high Tech prices, nore do I particularly like facing 20 to 1 odds in a fight against them, but for every action they take that traumatizes someone it creates opportunities for everyone else.

People who get Eve know that large alliances like Goonswarm are opportunities to the activities of the individual not involved and opportunities to those that are.

So in short, Goons and other large alliances are creating content for all. They are pushing their weight around to improve the game and doing so successfully and they ensure that their is a population on the server every day keeping CCP in business. If I have to put up with the occasional tard in game or on the forum who thinks because he is a Goon that somehow he is a step above me, I welcome it. But its worth noting that they are not the only Alliance overflowing with individuals that belong in straight jackets and who's opinions generally circle the proverbial toilet , it seems its tradition for jackelopes to join large Alliances and take credit for their activities as if they had accomplished them by themselves. So blaming Goons for the existence of such characters is silly.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 

Ven Phenom
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-08-24 12:56:47 UTC
Lysanne Reqetta wrote:
It's funny how everyone bitches about Goons in approximately all the other threads, but as soon as a thread like this comes up, or someone actually tries to do something about Goons, the only people you hear from are people supporting the Goons.


No offense but some just like beating the good ol' dead horse.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-08-24 12:57:20 UTC
GOONSWARM NEEDS TO GO
NERF FRIENDS

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Tiger Would
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-08-24 13:01:21 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
I can't speak to the individual incidents or people in Goonswarm, recognizing the fact that there are A-holes everywhere but my impression of Goonswarms impact is for the most part globally positive. I certainly have swapped paint with Goons on the battlefiled with thankless and idiotic members and traded typos on the forum with what I can imagine are the worse of their bunch so I can understand the perception that "all Goons are XXXX curse words", but ultimately you can't judge an alliance of thousands of players by the actions of a few tards.

In a discussion about "what have Goons done for the game globally", I can't help but be hard press to name something they did that didnt turn out to interesting at the very least. Obviously some things are bad for certain players, Hulkegedon for example was probably bad for people flying Hulks, but at least its an event, something is going on in the game... its pulse is beating.

Just in recent events like putting a spotlight on the failure of WiS or with Mittans new suprisingly well written and informative website it seems to me Goons are good at least for meta game to the benefit of the Eve player at large.

Sure we can ***** about things... I don't care for high Tech prices, nore do I particularly like facing 20 to 1 odds in a fight against them, but for every action they take that traumatizes someone it creates opportunities for everyone else.

People who get Eve know that large alliances like Goonswarm are opportunities to the activities of the individual not involved and opportunities to those that are.

So in short, Goons and other large alliances are creating content for all. They are pushing their weight around to improve the game and doing so successfully and they ensure that their is a population on the server every day keeping CCP in business. If I have to put up with the occasional tard in game or on the forum who thinks because he is a Goon that somehow he is a step above me, I welcome it. But its worth noting that they are not the only Alliance overflowing with individuals that belong in straight jackets and who's opinions generally circle the proverbial toilet , it seems its tradition for jackelopes to join large Alliances and take credit for their activities as if they had accomplished them by themselves. So blaming Goons for the existence of such characters is silly.



Sensibly written good Sir.

I will repeat a previously posted comment:

Thats true untill propaganda starts to be interpreted as fact and disables retention of new players and makes EvE look bad to the "outside" world.

Once you think you have it all, you have actually become ignorant towards everything else.

T. Would

Frying Doom
#50 - 2012-08-24 13:02:47 UTC
Tiger Would wrote:

Logically, mittens got banned and actually got off easy IMO. He also “resigned” as CSM 7 Chairman.
He then officially apologized only to state to seek revenge after receiving the ban. Burn Jita.

As you have most of your facts wrong I thought I would just change the one in relation to the CSM
He actually resigned from CSM 6 (with the term almost completed) and was ineligible for CSM 7 because of the ban.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-08-24 13:05:21 UTC
I'm sure getting banned from a game he rarely logs into hurt him so much...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Warpshade
Warped Industries
#52 - 2012-08-24 13:06:46 UTC
Love, Hate or not Care for Goonswarm is one thing, but you do have to respect them, not individually but as a whole, as an entity. I believe Eve without Goons would be a much sadder place, they bring character and drama to the game. In some ways Goons are a testament to Eve, and its environment to what it can facilitate.

To try and out Goons to me, is to out emergent gameplay. It's almost the same as going against freespeech, you can say anything you want, but only what I deem ok to say. You can play eve anyway you want, just not how I don't like you to play.

I not only disagree with your viewpoint, I also find some of your points fallacious, even though the entire post is one big argumentem ad populum. Not only that if anyone disagrees with your statement they are supposedly a Goon alt.

"Burn Jita" as I understand was planned well ahead of the reprimand concerning the alliance presentation, if my memories serves me correctly it was planned if X amount of people voted for him to get his position within the CSM. Either way "Jita Burn" didn't even need any justification, other than we are group X and we are going to try and achieve Y, that is emergent gameplay.

The business change due to result from the Jita Riots were the results of Goons? really could of sworn, Jita Riots were a result of everyone who were in agreeance, I didn't know literally only Goons played this game?

Ssly is this a Troll thread? or just a really irrational Anti-Goon thread?

From an Eve player who is not a Goon, and does not share your viewpoint.
oh wait im a Goon alt right?
Tiger Would
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-08-24 13:09:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger Would
Frying Doom wrote:

...... I would just change the one in relation to the CSM
He actually resigned from CSM 6 (with the term almost completed) and was ineligible for CSM 7 because of the ban.


Thank you for pointing out that small mistake, I will change it in the OP.

Once you think you have it all, you have actually become ignorant towards everything else.

T. Would

Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-08-24 13:10:10 UTC
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
I can't speak to the individual incidents or people in Goonswarm, recognizing the fact that there are A-holes everywhere but my impression of Goonswarms impact is for the most part globally positive. I certainly have swapped paint with Goons on the battlefiled with thankless and idiotic members and traded typos on the forum with what I can imagine are the worse of their bunch so I can understand the perception that "all Goons are XXXX curse words", but ultimately you can't judge an alliance of thousands of players by the actions of a few tards.

In a discussion about "what have Goons done for the game globally", I can't help but be hard press to name something they did that didnt turn out to interesting at the very least. Obviously some things are bad for certain players, Hulkegedon for example was probably bad for people flying Hulks, but at least its an event, something is going on in the game... its pulse is beating.

Just in recent events like putting a spotlight on the failure of WiS or with Mittans new suprisingly well written and informative website it seems to me Goons are good at least for meta game to the benefit of the Eve player at large.

Sure we can ***** about things... I don't care for high Tech prices, nore do I particularly like facing 20 to 1 odds in a fight against them, but for every action they take that traumatizes someone it creates opportunities for everyone else.

People who get Eve know that large alliances like Goonswarm are opportunities to the activities of the individual not involved and opportunities to those that are.

So in short, Goons and other large alliances are creating content for all. They are pushing their weight around to improve the game and doing so successfully and they ensure that their is a population on the server every day keeping CCP in business. If I have to put up with the occasional tard in game or on the forum who thinks because he is a Goon that somehow he is a step above me, I welcome it. But its worth noting that they are not the only Alliance overflowing with individuals that belong in straight jackets and who's opinions generally circle the proverbial toilet , it seems its tradition for jackelopes to join large Alliances and take credit for their activities as if they had accomplished them by themselves. So blaming Goons for the existence of such characters is silly.



This is a really good post but I feel like in certain areas you are pretty wrong. For example you said that Goons are not inherently superior, that they are not a step above you when I can safely say that we are, actually, a step above you.

Again, this is a really good post with a generally good attitude, but a day 1 newbee is fundamentally a better person than you, with better character, and is all-around better than you in every subjective and objectively measurable way. I'm sorry.
Tiger Would
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-08-24 13:13:01 UTC
Warpshade wrote:
......... but you do have to respect them,......



Did not find any such clause in the EULA.

Once you think you have it all, you have actually become ignorant towards everything else.

T. Would

Osabojo
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#56 - 2012-08-24 13:19:43 UTC
Tiger Would wrote:

Also, if you are a goonswarm tackler, please know that “tackler” is just a polite term for meat shield. It is not fun for you, you are being used, and every resource you have gets depleted. Regardless of ship replacement program. You are a resource as well you know! You could have spent that time actually enjoying, exploring, looking into other gameplay features, built up some fat ISK wise and maybe create your own corp one day or even an alliance. This pretty much goes for 90% of you people in goonswarm.


Nothing reveals your profound ignorance of Goonswarm as much as the above paragraph does. Nobody's required to be a tackler in Goonswarm. Nobody's really required to do anything, actually. Being a tackler is just one of the ways in which a completely new player can be engaged in PvP right from the beginning. New tacklers are usually still on trial accounts, so if they weren't actually having fun, as you suggest, then they wouldn't pay to keep playing, would they?

This would help you understand the cultural divide that you are facing: http://themittani.com/content/soss-75-eve-born-6

I know you probably don't want to read anything written by The Mittani, but if you can't be bothered to at least try to understand your enemy then you won't be very effective in eradicating us and will continue to look like a complete buffoon on these forums. Not that that isn't without entertainment value, but the same schtick over and over is getting a bit tedious.
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#57 - 2012-08-24 13:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kryss Darkdust
I will repeat a previously posted comment:
Quote:

Thats true untill propaganda starts to be interpreted as fact and disables retention of new players and makes EvE look bad to the "outside" world.


Trash talking is not propaganda and if Goons where the only people trash talking this game could be said to have very little trash talking. This is not a Goons thing, this is a Eve player thing and there are far worse offenders than Goons. I mean you want to see propaganda go read a couple of "Eve News 24" articles by River... what ever the hell his name is. That dude is delusional, he makes NBC new look repretable.

I guess my point here is that whatever it is that disables retention of new players, Goons are no more or less responsible than the general Eve community. Every kind of scam and dirty deed ever performed by a Goon has been performed by thousands of others from hundreds of other corps/alliances. This sort of "naughty" behavior is not the sole ownership of Goons end if they where eliminated today Eve in this regard would be unchanged.

Besides far worse than any scam and abuse any individual player traumatizes a newbie with is the general learning curve and complexity of Eve as far as retention of players is concerned. This is a very hard game and people wash out not because of what anyone did to them but because the game is just too bloody complex for your every day WoW refuge. The retention of Eve is more solid today than it has ever been and this is because there are lots of alliances ready to embrace newbies and show them the ropes and since Goons have the largest alliance in the game its reasonable to make the connection that they are probably responsible for a very large portion of new player retention as they welcome them to their corp/alliances and teach them how to play Eve.

So in a sense, Goons is responsible for their being more players who stay rather than the opposite. Besides its a well known fact that scammers and their like don't bother targeting new players for the simple economic fact that their is nothing in it for them. They are targeting guys like me with billions in their wallet and trillions in their hanger.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 

Schadenfreud
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-08-24 13:27:28 UTC
All I get out of these posts is a feeling of jealousy. We are a group that has fun at your expense. We are an exclusive club that you can't join that's better than you. I'd imagine for most nerds, it is just like high school all over again.
Tiger Would
Doomheim
#59 - 2012-08-24 13:28:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger Would
Osabojo wrote:

stuff about fox news

Your link to fox news does not help your argument Sir.

Once you think you have it all, you have actually become ignorant towards everything else.

T. Would

Ghazu
#60 - 2012-08-24 13:29:15 UTC
Tiger Would wrote:
Kryss Darkdust wrote:
I can't speak to the individual incidents or people in Goonswarm, recognizing the fact that there are A-holes everywhere but my impression of Goonswarms impact is for the most part globally positive. I certainly have swapped paint with Goons on the battlefiled with thankless and idiotic members and traded typos on the forum with what I can imagine are the worse of their bunch so I can understand the perception that "all Goons are XXXX curse words", but ultimately you can't judge an alliance of thousands of players by the actions of a few tards.

In a discussion about "what have Goons done for the game globally", I can't help but be hard press to name something they did that didnt turn out to interesting at the very least. Obviously some things are bad for certain players, Hulkegedon for example was probably bad for people flying Hulks, but at least its an event, something is going on in the game... its pulse is beating.

Just in recent events like putting a spotlight on the failure of WiS or with Mittans new suprisingly well written and informative website it seems to me Goons are good at least for meta game to the benefit of the Eve player at large.

Sure we can ***** about things... I don't care for high Tech prices, nore do I particularly like facing 20 to 1 odds in a fight against them, but for every action they take that traumatizes someone it creates opportunities for everyone else.

People who get Eve know that large alliances like Goonswarm are opportunities to the activities of the individual not involved and opportunities to those that are.

So in short, Goons and other large alliances are creating content for all. They are pushing their weight around to improve the game and doing so successfully and they ensure that their is a population on the server every day keeping CCP in business. If I have to put up with the occasional tard in game or on the forum who thinks because he is a Goon that somehow he is a step above me, I welcome it. But its worth noting that they are not the only Alliance overflowing with individuals that belong in straight jackets and who's opinions generally circle the proverbial toilet , it seems its tradition for jackelopes to join large Alliances and take credit for their activities as if they had accomplished them by themselves. So blaming Goons for the existence of such characters is silly.



Sensibly written good Sir.

I will repeat a previously posted comment:

Thats true untill propaganda starts to be interpreted as fact and disables retention of new players and makes EvE look bad to the "outside" world.


Heh the "drawing in more new players" argument, has been abused by everyone from space barbie wis freaks to dumb high sec rights activists christ just stop.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984