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[Winter] More Combat Frigates!

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Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#361 - 2012-09-07 13:28:22 UTC
I see so many new uses for breacher it is not even funny....not all of them are shield tanked even.

Also: The ancillary Shield booster gets overpowered when it is a XL one. The med ones are meh and small ones suck. A small calculation for you:

Considering 2x em 1x Therm rigs and Overheating. Non bonused ship.

ASB case
10 cap booster 50's => 25.5 seconds
Considering 2 devoted tank slots => 1 SBA 1 MASB
Obtained EFT tank 157
Obtained extra EHP before reload = 25.5*157= 4003.5

t2 medium shield Booster Case
2 tank slots = 1 MSB 1 capbooster
Obtained EFT tank 73
Time required to reach ASB EHP= 4003.5/73 = 54 sec
So any frig fight that gets longer than 54 sec favors the t2 medium shield booster.

t2 medium shield extender case
2 tank slots = 1 Medium Shield Extender 1 Invul
Obtained Extra EHP (1 em 2 extender rigs invul OH) 4452

As you can see it is not THAT good. When you do the same calculations for XLASB though you'll notice that it is MUCH MUCH MORE effective. Hence your disappointment with XLASB cyclone and Maels.

TL;DR Ancillaries on frig size vessels are overrated. Breachers are going to rock neverthless.
Neville Smit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2012-09-11 13:18:41 UTC
Neville approves.

I especially like the new Tristan drone boat. Who needs missiles, anyway? Cool

I am an unapologetic fan of EVE Online. My blog: http://nevillesmit.com/ - My Twitter: https://twitter.com/NevilleSmit
Klarr Vaine
Bell End Harvesting and Salvage Company
#363 - 2012-09-11 13:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Klarr Vaine
I'm sure I'm echoing here, but switch the Inquisitor with the Tormentor to keep things in sync with the whole T1 Frig to Stealth Bomber progression? ATM the changes are nice, but this particular point bothers me. It would be awesome to see an Inquisitor with the same slot layout + drone bay as the current Tormentor, but with missile/rocket goodness.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#364 - 2012-09-11 14:33:55 UTC
Strange that the new drone frigate has turret bonuses instead of drone damage bonuses but whatever, i won't be flying any of these.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
LawlSTi
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#365 - 2012-09-11 15:25:17 UTC  |  Edited by: LawlSTi
redacted
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#366 - 2012-09-11 15:28:15 UTC
I'm confused about the Kestrel bonuses changes. The Kestrel already has a 5 percent damage bonus to all missile types. It looks like the only changes to the bonuses is they're replacing the 10 percent kinetic damage bonus with a 10 percent velocity bonus... wait you're reducing damage and adding range to a weapon that already has extreme range for a frigate... Unless you make the bonus apply to rockets it's worthless IMO... Hint hint CCP. A rocket bonus would make it a really sweet PVP ship.

I do like some of the changes to shield HP etc though.
hercules fitch
Fitch Foundries
#367 - 2012-09-11 15:35:50 UTC
I can see it now... a swarm of tristans camping a gate, each with a garde II out. Quick lock and blap

If it doesn't sound like a good idea, you need moar booze!
Recoil IV
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#368 - 2012-09-11 15:38:40 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Like I said, some plans have changed in the past few months. The Navitas will be in the last set of frigates we reveal, but it's no longer planned as a drone damage frigate.

I'm looking forward to that last reveal most of all. Running the latest design past the CSM now, will get it to you asap.



is the kestrel bonus apply to rockets aswell?
Marcus Gideon
Triglavian Assembly
#369 - 2012-09-11 16:43:23 UTC
19 pages?

TLDR

Why is the Incursus, which grows up to be a droning Ishkur, considered a gunboat...

While the Tristan, which grows up to be a bomber, using drones now?

This does not make sense...
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#370 - 2012-09-11 18:40:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
So if I get this right, there is not going to be a single missile platform among the Tech I Ammar ships anymore?

Sad

Remove standings and insurance.
Lili Lu
#371 - 2012-09-11 20:03:25 UTC
Marcus Gideon wrote:
19 pages?

TLDR

Why is the Incursus, which grows up to be a droning Ishkur, considered a gunboat...

While the Tristan, which grows up to be a bomber, using drones now?

This does not make sense...

No problem. Have some imagination. The engineers just gutted the inards of the drone bay and support infrastructure and constructed missile and warhead storage and support infrastructure in its place, and vice versa, or whatever. nbd. The new nemesis is not the same hull as the tristan anyway (at least atm). PLEASE IMMEDIATELY FIX THE POOR AGILITY ON THE NEMESIS BTW Smile

As for tristans plopping one sentry and camping, i doubt it would be seen much. It is a lot more training to field a sentry than light drones. And if one is going to sentry camp a gate just do it with vexors. 3 sentries > 1 sentry. As long as you have some dedicated tackle on the gate the scan res advantage of the tristans means nothing.
Seminole Sun
Hell's Librarians
#372 - 2012-09-11 20:09:06 UTC
Is there a reason to NOT have the Tristan be missiles and drones?

I too am bothered by the fact that the very first gallente "missile" boat is essentially the stealth bomber... That state of affairs argues in FAVOR of the Tristan having launchers... not against...

If you REALLY want to think outside the box, give the Tristan two launchers and a bonus like covert ops gets but that reduces the fitting cost for missile launchers such that the Tristan could fit a single heavy missile launcher or two light/rockets

As it is right now, what gallente ship will EVER use lights or rockets??
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#373 - 2012-09-11 22:45:54 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tristan:
Frigate skill bonuses:
7.5% Bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
10% Bonus to Drone tracking speed and hitpoints per level
...
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 (+20) / 40 (+35)

I am concerned that the Tristan now almost entirely outmodes the Ishkur in applied drone DPS. Am I wrong to think this? Is there any possible reason why I should not be concerned?

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#374 - 2012-09-11 22:50:30 UTC
Seminole Sun wrote:

As it is right now, what gallente ship will EVER use lights or rockets??



around the same time you see a drone ship for caldari.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#375 - 2012-09-11 22:53:38 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Seminole Sun wrote:

As it is right now, what gallente ship will EVER use lights or rockets??



around the same time you see a drone ship for caldari.

The Worm!!!!
Caldari drone ship + Gallente rocket ship

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#376 - 2012-09-11 23:02:31 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Seminole Sun wrote:

As it is right now, what gallente ship will EVER use lights or rockets??



around the same time you see a drone ship for caldari.

The Worm!!!!
Caldari drone ship + Gallente rocket ship


pirate faction does not count...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#377 - 2012-09-12 00:46:47 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:

pirate faction does not count...

Or it also count as a gallente missile boat ; but I prefer to not count it.
Kintaana
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#378 - 2012-09-12 00:56:14 UTC
So the kestrel gets a range bonus yet is slower and less agile than the Breacher, which also gets a range bonus + a tank bonus + higher mobility?
How does that make sense? Light missiles with 40km range isn't going to give it more survivability or any sort of advantage over short range frigates that can easily overcome it and out-tank it.

Once again this would make minmatar unbalanced while shoehorning caldari into a non-pvp role.
It would be more balanced if the Breacher was slower due to the beefy tank or if the Kestrel had 3 low slots and the Breacher had 2, allowing the Kestrel to fit a nano to compensate for it's lack of mobility and be in harmony with it's bonuses.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#379 - 2012-09-12 01:52:17 UTC
Kintaana wrote:
So the kestrel gets a range bonus yet is slower and less agile than the Breacher, which also gets a range bonus + a tank bonus + higher mobility?
How does that make sense? Light missiles with 40km range isn't going to give it more survivability or any sort of advantage over short range frigates that can easily overcome it and out-tank it.

Once again this would make minmatar unbalanced while shoehorning caldari into a non-pvp role.
It would be more balanced if the Breacher was slower due to the beefy tank or if the Kestrel had 3 low slots and the Breacher had 2, allowing the Kestrel to fit a nano to compensate for it's lack of mobility and be in harmony with it's bonuses.

I believe the Kestrel will have considerably more than a 40km range when all is said and done.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
Doomheim
#380 - 2012-09-12 06:32:07 UTC
Quote:
So the kestrel gets a range bonus yet is slower and less agile than the Breacher, which also gets a range bonus + a tank bonus + higher mobility?
How does that make sense? Light missiles with 40km range isn't going to give it more survivability or any sort of advantage over short range frigates that can easily overcome it and out-tank it.

Once again this would make minmatar unbalanced while shoehorning caldari into a non-pvp role.
It would be more balanced if the Breacher was slower due to the beefy tank or if the Kestrel had 3 low slots and the Breacher had 2, allowing the Kestrel to fit a nano to compensate for it's lack of mobility and be in harmony with it's bonuses.


You are completely right.
But don´t forget: Who gets a completely new stabber and vagabond model? Who got a stealth uber buff with asb? Who has the best Tech1 destroyer, cruiser, battlecruiser and with asb now also battleship in the game? Who had the monopol on the best tech1 frig in the game for years (Rifter)? Who has the most overpowered pirate frigs like dram?
Winmatar.
It is always the same. Probably minnies were winning about the fact that they hadnt the only one T1 frig in the game, CCP feared about our spoiled minnie players and now they get this breacher stuff. I had to laugh in the last dev blog that not only the other cruisers but also rupture should get a buff. ROFL. The best Tech1 cruiser in game gets a buff. Wow.

Well you are completely right: Kestrel looks like a complete loser against the Breacher. Let us not talk about the Tormentor... That is a total epic fail. But look only at the dram: CCP wants it so. Minnies always had the best ships (lets not talk about their weapons) and it will be so forever until the whole universe is flying minnie ship only. If I were you I would start training for minmatar frigate. CCP WANTS this frigate to be overpowered.
So: working as intended