Missions & Complexes

I wonder if this would fix the complexes:

When you kill a NPC you get the bounty for that NPC and a flag is set. When that same NPC spawns again, your killing it does not generate another bounty, as the flag is set. To reset the flag you got to leave and re-enter that room of the complex.

Edit: Anther way, maybe simpler. When you enter a complex a timer starts (for you). Say the complex spawns NPCs every 15 minutes. Then for 15 + a buffer of 5 = 20 minutes you can earn bounties. Longer then that and you stop earning them, until you leave and re-enter.

One thing to remember is these are public areas. Many players can be in one at a time, competing or co-operating for the NPCs and the items.

It's a small distinction, but the fact that you're missing it is important.

They aren't implementing ways of automatically finding people that may be AFK farming complexes.

They *have already* implemented ways of detecting people playing in bot-like patterns. It just so happens that this detection also detects people AFK farming complexes for long periods of time of inactivity. And now they have to deal with the situation.

...and they *are* intending to fix the complexes where this happens.


All better?

those plexs have been around for a pretty long time, surprised ccp is just saying something now. although ganking people in there is pretty fun, http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=6234153

As a --VERY-- casual gamer, I discovered years ago that a ratting battleship can sit in a belt for HOURS and HOURS and HOURS...and kill the rats as they respawn in the belt.

I'm self-employed and work from home.
It's quite often that I may have my laptop sitting next to me for hours at a time with a battleship in a belt, waiting for rats to spawn...drones orbiting...while I conduct my real-life business.

I have had players send me fleet invites or convos to try to get a response from me. One time back in my early days, a GM "poked" me with a question to determine if I was AFK or not. It's the only time I have ever seen a GM in-game!

It would seem to me that many forms of casual play styles that allow for AFK play is not only very popular within the EVE community but as evidenced by the outcry of responses to this news item it would appear to affect a large number of otherwise active play styles as well.

How many pilots play active on one client while AFK activities are running on a secondary client?

And even though Screegs assures us that if we have not been informed that our gameplay is a bad thing then we are OK, but obviously such a notification could come at any time. It would appear that the only thing between our passive game play style is the amount of isk which we are able to generate while doing it.

I believe that is the crux of the concern for the players and is the justification for every negative post on this thread.

I agree with the player base that finds concern in this action and I too question just where the line is drawn between normal gameplay and exploitation --

• Is it expressed in hours of game play or isk per hour?
• Is it limited to a certain region or security level?
• What about a certain ship type? Can a hulk not make the same amount of isk per hour passively drone ratting as a battleship can in the same belt? Obviously both can mine ore in the process.
• Will the restrictions only apply to complexes, anomalies and deadspace or will it apply to belts as well?

HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO:
If I place one client in a belt with a ratting battleship.
And I place a second client in the same belt with a mining ship.
Then I use a third client to run a hauler to handle the ore.

I can basicly AFK mine and rat at the same time while conducting other tasks for work, or read a book, or watch Netflix, or surf whatever....I can even leave the house and go grab a bite to eat!

But obviously two of my clients are actively being "played" by managing cargo and hauling ore.
The first client, the battleship, however, is just sitting there...drones out...providing security.
When rats spawn, I could easily warp off the mining ship and the hauler and let the battleship take the aggro, then come back.

You might say that does not qualify as botting because I am actively playing the game. I would agree.
But some inhuman computer code might determine that one of my clients is botting because the battleship never moves or responds. And out there somewhere is a line in the sand that makes the difference between that being normal game play and an exploit...and if I cross that line adios muchachos?

That's no where even hardly close to promoting sandbox game play.

And in my opinion, if a player sets a ship in a situation where it can passively kill rats all day long without affecting someone else's game play pleasure then BRAVO for him! List his name on the big screen in my captain's quarters as a suspected botting pilot and tell me what constellation he is in. Let me go ruin his day instead of you ruining all of ours!

Can I get a *AMEN*?

Sreegs, I have a question. You stated logging in at downtime, placing drones, going afk until next DT is unacceptable. I get that. I get that this was posted to warn a specific subset of players who engage in the most extreme form of this behaviour and essentially farm PVE bounties 23/7 while afk, making a substantial amount of ISK.
;
What I am confused about is where the dividing line is. This exploit has no red flag: there is no third party software, no single complex it is being applied to, there is no one factor to say "because this was used, this behaviour is exploitative" so where is the dividing line between acceptable and unacceptable?

For example, what if I log on 5 hours after downtime and log off 2 hour before, but other than that my behaviour is identical and I am AFK, or seem afk? (so 16 hrs a day, 5 days a week)

What if I am engaging in the same behaviour except that I am not AFK, I assume an interface command every once in awhile will make me safe?

What if I am on an alt that is looting wrecks?

You said a shower and feeding yourself is fine, but what if I am going to a restaurant? What if something unexpected arises and I simply forget to log off all night? Must this happen several times in a row, or perhaps a certain number of times over the course of a week/month before I have to worry? I know I've had people show up at the door just as I get out of the shower and forgotten to log off...

Is there some trivial magic number where the detection algorithm rolls over and says yup, its been 15 hours, 37 minutes and 12 seconds, its DEFINITELY a bot, *FLAG*.

I don't necessarily need answers to these specific hypotheticals, as they are meant to be demonstrative. Just a general explanation of even the grey area when we should start to worry that the risk of being flagged exists, as the detection algorithm is obviously more sophisticated than if afk farming for > 22 hours a day for 7 days a week, *FLAG*

I worry this post will come off as though I am preparing for future rule lawyering, or a way to utilize this exploit without getting flagged, but what I am actually trying to do is distinguish where my legitimate behaviour may not be considered legitimate. A lot of the confusion and questions I read is because while you only give one specific example of this behaviour, there is a lot of grey area where this overlaps legitimate behaviour that is worrying. A half hour of this behaviour is allowable, 23 hours is not. What about 5 hours? 10? 15?

I am actually just finishing getting skills for an ishtar exactly for playing in this way. I play a lot at work, and as such I need to be able to afk very abruptly for unknowable lengths of times when customers come in or situations arise. I don't want to be otherwise occupied with a customer while my brain is staring at the clock thinking oh ****, how long to I have before I risk getting banned? Maybe I can distract them and get back to the computer and loot something...

Holy dogshit, people just don't feel like reading or thinking today, do they? Must be nice...

Easy isk is not the problem. Easy isk with 1% game interaction is the problem. You know how even in the simple hack-and-slash games, the juicy loot drops from the big, bad boss who is hard to kill? The reward should be proportional to the risk, in order to keep things interesting. Where is the... nah, forget it, lost cause.

As another poster already pointed out, the system CCP developed was designed to catch bots. The fact that it detected this guy's characters as such means a lot. Well maybe not to you but...

And a horse? What horse? For better or worse, i am down in the sandbox with the rest of you lot. You think I would bother posting otherwise?

However, i am running out of examples to give you people. I mean... I don't think I can simplify it any further. Ok, last try:

You know how in some hotels they leave free maps in the lobby so that tourists can find their way around? If you wanted to, you can just grab all the maps and take off. But that's not a very nice thing to do, is it? It can damage the experience of the other tourists. Would you take all the maps anyway? Is it the hotel's fault for not keeping the maps at a secure location?

Seeing that you don't feel like thinking today and you may not understand how the above relates to the issue in question, let me clarify - by AFK farming a COSMOS plex, you can effectively deny other players access to the said plex and the missions associated with it. This plex was not meant to be an isk farm, just like the maps were not meant to be taken all by a single individual. The fact that you can get away with doing it (taking all the maps or AFK farming the plex) does not make it right.

Pffff.... I feel exhausted. I bet that's how teachers in the elementary school feel.

EDIT: Final remark, to all the guys asking where the line is drawn and if they are gonna get banned for afk mining and so on and so forth. Anybody in a position of authority, please correct me if i am wrong.

- You can not mine for 23 hours, or even for 2 hours, while completely AFK, so AFK miners have no reason to worry.
- You can not farm missions or high end DED complexes while completely AFK, so no need to worry about that either.
- You wanna park your passive tanked Rattlesnake in a lowsec or 0.0 asteroid belt and AFK farm the rats when they respawn? Go right ahead!
- You wanna leave your passive tanked ishtar in a high sec belt all day long, making a whooping 1-2 mil per day. I think maybe CCP will let this slide.

Second EDIT (arguing on the internet... i know): Shi Xia, my "dribblings", really? If i post something like - You're worthless, get a brain transplant and learn 2 read - would you understand that better?

I think people are missing the point that there is no actually bot detection involved.
The lazy way to do it is data mining to find the characters earning the most isk per day from bounties and rewards (probably weighted by security level.)
Then from that pool you follow them for suspicious activity and ban them. Someone decided that if you were earning that much while AFKing in a complex it was bannable and when it was petitioned by the player CCP upheld the ban.

Oh I understand the concept. I'm just stating we need sleeper AI for NPCs.

Can i have your... damn it! You beat me to it...

Good to know it'll go to a good use then :)




The game mechanics in question, from what I understand from previous posts here, are buried in garbage that's the same grade of code as POS'. They're wary as **** about messing with that, for concern of what breaks; so instead of leaving it stagnating for months, they have addressed it now.




So you quit during the gold ammo rage as well, and during the Unholy Rage bannings?

"Fear" has been a well used tool for a long time, for the banning of players that exploit, and where the game mechanics can fail, despite a good effort to enforce them. ( The Concord boomerang exploit for example ).

We are dealing with a playerbase that thrives on the edge of legit gameplay sometimes, that will work every possible edge they can into a fight, or into their enviroment.



I see a door that isn't for me.

In honesty it sounds like you're looking for a way out anyway, so prehaps the break might do you some good. You might come back, you might not. I'm glad you're seeing it positively though.