These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Newton's First Law

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#61 - 2012-08-09 18:45:01 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Alice Saki wrote:
We're not in Space, We're Underwater, Did noone tell you?

Also, Its a Game.


Funny, when people rabbled about warping through a planet, the phrase 'It's a game' did not satisfy them. Even when given plausible scientific reasons, they still weren't satisfied.

It may be a game, but its a better game when things make sense.


Seven out of Four EVE players don't even understand fractions, what hope is there for psychics.

Now with 100% less Troll.
Cede Forster
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#62 - 2012-08-09 19:00:08 UTC
yea and also newton is very relevant if you talk about light speed and everything, this makes me sad
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#63 - 2012-08-09 19:00:50 UTC
Cede Forster wrote:
yea and also newton is very relevant if you talk about light speed and everything, this makes me sad


Better than heavy speed. Takes up less m3.

Now with 100% less Troll.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-08-09 19:02:50 UTC
Who?

brb
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#65 - 2012-08-09 19:06:19 UTC
I don't know about you, but the lurch of going through a wormhole in real life always throws me.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Tom Gerard
Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan
#66 - 2012-08-09 19:07:32 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Who?


Guy from science class called Fig Newton, he invented the apple tree.

Now with 100% less Troll.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-08-09 19:10:29 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Who?


Guy from science class called Fig Newton, he invented the apple tree.


I'm sure you're beating him at number of posts !

Also, if it's not a space pilot it's a lie. Eve is true, everything else is a lie, that simple Lol

brb
Xorth Adimus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-08-09 19:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorth Adimus
1. Why do ships stop before they warp.

-It only appears that the ship is slowing to the viewer as the ship is travelling slower in time then the drone camera, this is a proven General Theory of Relativity effect that the faster you travel the slower your local time becomes especially as you reach c.
..Given that crappy light only goes 173AU a day be glad your internet spaceship doesn't do other weird stuff.

- Kinetic energy of ship could be used to help punch a warp tunnel / tubular spacial wave and overcome its wake created by your Alcubierre warp drive. This would explain why you need to get to speed to use it, which otherwise could only come from the mind of a game developer.

- If you cannot fully turn off this warp drive the spacial wake inertia would explain why you stop when the engines do. It would also be why you have a top speed in a vacuum well below the point where vacuum rocket nozzle velocities can be easily achieved (rockets love vacuums especially Dysons).

- It looks cool

2. Ship attitudes
- is easy to explain, people freak out and get horribly confused in 3 dimensions which doesn't make for a fun game.

Newton didn't fly internet spaceships, Einstein wished he did, live the dream you lucky bastard.
Cadfael Maelgwyn
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-08-09 19:29:30 UTC
The only kind of Newtons I care about are fig ones.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2012-08-09 19:39:40 UTC
lachrymus wrote:
1. Why do ships stop before they warp. As the ship attains enough speed to switch warp on, you're switching from impulse to warp engines but basic physics says the ship should keep moving. Is there any reason why CCP shouldn't make this fundamental fail work properly?

2. Ship attitudes: I come to a stop after a ship movement that had a vertical component. My ship is pointing upwards or downwards but, pretty soon, it's horizontal. Why?? Space is three-dimensional. Wherever I come to a stop, that's where my ship should remain.

For me, these two fails break the illusion - and they break Newton's First Law. Come on CCP, fix this simple stuff...


Because ... this is EVE

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#71 - 2012-08-09 19:44:37 UTC
a. Because Newtonian physics are horrid for controlling a spaceship outside of pure simulation.
b. Because the warp engine creates space-friction.
ctx2007
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2012-08-09 19:56:22 UTC
Newtons first law " Don't sit under an apple tree anymore"

You only realise you life has been a waste of time, when you wake up dead.
Link 420
Ministry of War
#73 - 2012-08-09 20:13:01 UTC
You forgot to mention:

3) Missiles and Projectiles having a max range. (same law)
4) Ships bouncing off each other and other objects, including planes and stars.
5) Ability to "move" other ships 100 times your ship's weight via the method above.
6) Ability to communicate instantly through several hundred light-years of space.
7) Ability to download your "mind" instantly to a clone several hundred light-years away.

And on a more unrelated subject:
The physically possible, but morally questionable Prostitutes and Exotic Dancers, who weigh 50gk and stand 1m tall.
(average size of a preteen child) ShockedLolLol


This question was brought up more times then I can remember, and people usually reply in one of two ways:
1) It's just a game (or some sarcastic variation of the same statement)
2) A logical, sometimes humorous, explanation for the variations. (Covered quite well in this thread by Floppy on page 1)

Personally, I tend to allign with the latter; that way it's not a game imperfection, it's just "lore". Big smile


I am rather curious, however, to see if Floppy could find a less disturbing explanation to the above mentioned "morally questionable" abnormality. BlinkLol
Totalrx
NA No Assholes
#74 - 2012-08-09 20:13:31 UTC
I've always looked at the warp sequence like this:

1) Every action the ship makes is pilot commanded, computer controlled (much like the fly-by-wire aircraft we already have IRL).

2) Once the warp sequence is initiated, the computer aligns the ship onto a trajectory path within an acceptable tolerance of elevation and azimuth.

3) The computer uses reverse thrust at all required angles to stop the ship. This ensures that the ship does not continue to drift and possible drift off course before warp.

4) The warp engines engage.

The foundation of this theory of operation is that such actions would be required to avoid hitting known obstacles in the flight path. In game though, we fly through obstacles.....large obstacles like planets and stations. So, it kinda kills the theory lol!
lachrymus
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#75 - 2012-08-10 07:49:51 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Alice Saki wrote:
We're not in Space, We're Underwater, Did noone tell you?

Also, Its a Game.


Funny, when people rabbled about warping through a planet, the phrase 'It's a game' did not satisfy them. Even when given plausible scientific reasons, they still weren't satisfied.

It may be a game, but its a better game when things make sense.

+1
ACE McFACE
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-08-10 07:51:56 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
We're not in Space, We're Underwater, Did noone tell you?

Also, Its a Game.

More like golden syrup

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Josef Djugashvilis
#77 - 2012-08-10 08:47:43 UTC
Taranius De Consolville wrote:
I hate to break this to you

I really am sorry

This hurts me deeply to have to do this to sumone

But you will find out the truth eventually

I feel it is my duty

Again i am sorry


But


It's a game...


If only more players saw Eve as a game and not some sort of weird ego war.

This is not a signature.
OmniBeton
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-08-10 08:53:02 UTC
lachrymus wrote:
1. Why do ships stop before they warp. As the ship attains enough speed to switch warp on, you're switching from impulse to warp engines but basic physics says the ship should keep moving. Is there any reason why CCP shouldn't make this fundamental fail work properly?


Could you kindly point us to any good book that covers real-life physics of warp travel ? Couldn't find one.
lachrymus
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#79 - 2012-08-10 09:04:41 UTC
Hey, it's just a game! But I'd like it to look more believable...
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#80 - 2012-08-17 14:34:22 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Link 420 wrote:
You forgot to mention:

3) Missiles and Projectiles having a max range. (same law)
4) Ships bouncing off each other and other objects, including planes and stars.
5) Ability to "move" other ships 100 times your ship's weight via the method above.
6) Ability to communicate instantly through several hundred light-years of space.
7) Ability to download your "mind" instantly to a clone several hundred light-years away.


3 - the fluidity of space creates drag, which is more pronounced on objects with smaller gravitational fields. So projectiles simply slow to the point they bounce harmlessly off a ship at a certain range. Lasers...I dunno. Refraction caused by the fluid? Sure, that works.

4 & 5 - Signature radius in this game affects physics, so I'll go with the idea that our shields interact with the fluid in some way, creating a sort of elastic shell around the ship allowing it to "bounce" harmlessly off of other objects.

6 & 7 - Yeah, I'm just writing that off as "space is different here, and it lets us do faster-than-light communication." I'm lazy :)

Link 420 wrote:
And on a more unrelated subject:
The physically possible, but morally questionable Prostitutes and Exotic Dancers, who weigh 50gk and stand 1m tall.
(average size of a preteen child) ShockedLolLol

Perhaps we're all that size? This page states that we're living 14,000 years in the future. That's a lot of time for selection, both natural and otherwise, to adjust our bodies.

edit: According to a quick search, 95% of girls reach 1 meter by the time they're 5. So yeah, I'm going with the "we're all short" answer, because the alternative is preschool prostitution.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.