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Newton's First Law

First post
Author
lachrymus
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-08-08 15:36:44 UTC
But the things I'm talking about happen below warp speed.

Come on, we all know how warp engines work don't we? Damn, where's Scotty when you need him?
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#22 - 2012-08-08 15:38:35 UTC
lachrymus wrote:
Hmm, you're beginning to convince me. Except asteroid and planet movements aren't consistent either. Noticed how 'roids and 'bergs sort of roll around on their own? And ships kind of wobble about gently when left untended? Planets don't do that...


As I said, the greater the body's gravity field, the less it is affected by the "fluid" effects of this universe.

The tendency of craft to "level out" and have an appearance of bobbing is due to space having a "current" which isn't well-explained by science at this point. Prevailing theories suggest that there is a "dark wind" of undetectable matter creating this gentle flow in which the ships bob, or some sort of "great attractor" which is constantly pulling on the fluid of space. It's not enough to cause objects larger than subatomic particles to drift with this current, but it does cause subtle movement in things that would otherwise sit stationary, "stuck" in the fluid.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Jantunen the Infernal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-08-08 15:40:07 UTC
EVE happens in an alternative universe, so things that apply IRL may not apply in EVE.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#24 - 2012-08-08 15:41:20 UTC
lachrymus wrote:
But the things I'm talking about happen below warp speed.

Come on, we all know how warp engines work don't we? Damn, where's Scotty when you need him?


Fitting inside this hastily-created alternate physics model of mine, I envision the warp drive as creating a pocket of "vacuum" around the ship, essentially pushing the fluid away. This would cause the fluid to momentarily become more dense around the ship, causing it to stop just before the warp is fully engaged and the bubble of vacuum moves through space with you inside it.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Doctor ForumAlt
#25 - 2012-08-08 15:48:59 UTC
This will explain it better

I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was young." "Why, what did she tell you?" "I don't know, I didn't listen."

Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#26 - 2012-08-08 15:55:11 UTC
The warp start animation is still making me sick. I pray that CCP changes it some day.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.

Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#27 - 2012-08-08 16:07:56 UTC
God is a sausage.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.

sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#28 - 2012-08-08 16:22:33 UTC
its changing engines, from sub to warp.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.

Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#29 - 2012-08-08 16:23:44 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Here, let me fix this:

New Eden is in a parallel dimension where the laws of physics work somewhat differently than the one from which our race originates. The Eden Gate, originally thought to be a wormhole across space, was in reality a "tear" in space-time itself that allowed travel between the two universes for a short time. In the New Eden universe, space has strange fluid properties that cause ships to slow to a stop without active propulsion and cannot accelerate indefinitely, as the "drag" of this reality will eventually cause you to reach an equilibrium, achieving a maximum speed. This drag seems to dissipate as a body's gravity field increases, which is why planets are able to orbit as normal, but asteroids never disperse from belts.

The "stop before warp" effect is caused by the warp engines "bending" the fluid space around them so they can travel at FTL speeds. The effect causes a brief moment where the space directly in front of the ship becomes impassably dense, causing your craft to come to a stop before the warp tunnel is formed and you are propelled down it.

This same fluid space also enables faster-than-light communication by some mechanic I don't feel like inventing, which allows the instantaneous communications and cloning technologies we possess...things which would violate the laws of physics in the old universe.

See, the game doesn't need to follow real physics, it only needs to be internally consistent.


So i tried to work with Physics in our universe, explaining how the warp drive component of every ship in the game affects your ship. You made your own universe where unicorns and dragons could exist and you get the likes... (then again, who doesn't like unicorns and dragons?)

The "paralell universe" crap is such and easy excuse of an explanation that I could sum up your post in three words:

Its a game.

Srs, try to put some effort into it.

He said newton's first law, physics in our universe was OP's question.

(being spacemad at work and getting paid to be spacemad is best spacemad)
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-08-08 16:32:04 UTC
lachrymus wrote:
1. Why do ships stop before they warp. As the ship attains enough speed to switch warp on, you're switching from impulse to warp engines but basic physics says the ship should keep moving. Is there any reason why CCP shouldn't make this fundamental fail work properly?

2. Ship attitudes: I come to a stop after a ship movement that had a vertical component. My ship is pointing upwards or downwards but, pretty soon, it's horizontal. Why?? Space is three-dimensional. Wherever I come to a stop, that's where my ship should remain.

For me, these two fails break the illusion - and they break Newton's First Law. Come on CCP, fix this simple stuff...


1. Stop trying to apply real physics to this game.
2. Space in EvE functions with the properties of a liquid medium.
3. Warp drive, in theory, has no "thrust" or "motion" component. The warp drive expands space behind the vessel and contracts space in front of the vessel. You are essentially making the space in front of the vessel smaller such that (for example) 1 AU was compressed to approximately 1 inch of actual distance.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#31 - 2012-08-08 16:33:11 UTC
As far as coming to rest level with the rest of the system, you could look at that a few different ways.

1: It's part of how your nav computer is programmed to simplify navigation issues and collision avoidance, made standard practice in all systems but only really becoming an issue in systems with high volumes of space traffic.

2: The drives that power the ship could be tied into the gravitational plane of the system and exert subtle forces on the ship which tends to pull it into the same alignment as the majority of the orbital bodies in the system.

3: Invisible space whales messing with your head.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Random Majere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-08-08 16:38:22 UTC
Did you go bananas when you warped through a station?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#33 - 2012-08-08 16:55:43 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Here, let me fix this:

New Eden is in a parallel dimension where the laws of physics work somewhat differently than the one from which our race originates. The Eden Gate, originally thought to be a wormhole across space, was in reality a "tear" in space-time itself that allowed travel between the two universes for a short time. In the New Eden universe, space has strange fluid properties that cause ships to slow to a stop without active propulsion and cannot accelerate indefinitely, as the "drag" of this reality will eventually cause you to reach an equilibrium, achieving a maximum speed. This drag seems to dissipate as a body's gravity field increases, which is why planets are able to orbit as normal, but asteroids never disperse from belts.

The "stop before warp" effect is caused by the warp engines "bending" the fluid space around them so they can travel at FTL speeds. The effect causes a brief moment where the space directly in front of the ship becomes impassably dense, causing your craft to come to a stop before the warp tunnel is formed and you are propelled down it.

This same fluid space also enables faster-than-light communication by some mechanic I don't feel like inventing, which allows the instantaneous communications and cloning technologies we possess...things which would violate the laws of physics in the old universe.

See, the game doesn't need to follow real physics, it only needs to be internally consistent.


A reasonable explanation, one that makes sense. Now, as for being internally consistent, if we could somehow get CCP to understand that hurtling a projectile with a 1.4 metre diameter 60 km through space instantaneously is kind of difficult, Eve would be better place.
Riknarr
Midhalla
#34 - 2012-08-08 16:57:49 UTC
this made sense to me Smile
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-08-08 17:02:54 UTC
Lololol you think physics....
Syphon Lodian
Fabled Enterprises
#36 - 2012-08-08 17:38:06 UTC
They talked about this in the past.

Newtonian would just be boring as is theoretically possible for a game.

So it's... "Newtonian Lite", I guess.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-08-08 17:51:26 UTC
lachrymus wrote:
For me, these two fails break the illusion - and they break Newton's First Law. Come on CCP, fix this simple stuff...


THIS is what breaks the illusion for you? Not rockets flying through ships or asteroids or stations to hit their target? Not lasers/bullets doing the same? Not the inability to point your ship just in any random direction and engage the warp drive? Not ships doing 3000 km/s and crashing into solid objects (and much larger ships) and harmlessly bouncing away? Etc., etc.

EVE is so full of these that to fix them they might as well get started on EVE II.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2012-08-08 17:55:33 UTC
Space is a liquid.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#39 - 2012-08-08 17:55:56 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Now, as for being internally consistent, if we could somehow get CCP to understand that hurtling a projectile with a 1.4 metre diameter 60 km through space instantaneously is kind of difficult, Eve would be better place.

Whoa whoa.

What does the 1400mm artillery have to do with this.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Ilnaurk Sithdogron
Blackwater International
#40 - 2012-08-08 17:59:47 UTC
This game is science fiction. Read the second word. Then read it again. And again. As many times as it takes to convince you that real world science has no place here.

My brother is always making smarmy comments like this when I'm playing EVE. It gets annoying real fast.

http://eve-sojourn.blogspot.com/