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Self-destruct changes on Singularity

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The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-07-27 18:35:06 UTC
hmm, by the sounds of it, its an obvious and very long awaited fix.

Was there any gory technical details that was preventing this fix sooner?
Myz Toyou
Nekkid Inc.
#62 - 2012-07-27 18:36:45 UTC
Lord Maldoror wrote:
Great to see this change finally under way.

I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.

In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).

For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).

As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.

There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction.


I predict an increase of 20 - 30% of WH cap kill mails after the patch goes live.
Johan March
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-07-27 18:37:13 UTC
I support this change. Big smile
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#64 - 2012-07-27 18:41:13 UTC
Myz Toyou wrote:
Lord Maldoror wrote:
Great to see this change finally under way.

I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.

In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).

For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).

As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.

There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction.


I predict an increase of 20 - 30% of WH cap kill mails after the patch goes live.


You're being pretty conservative with that estimate. 50% or more, unless they stop coming out of the shields altogether.
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#65 - 2012-07-27 18:42:56 UTC
What is the point of self destruct anymore.

Im Lord Vaari, earl of Sosan VII, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharmacy, skilled miner, archbishop of the Church of Providence, carrier of the Heaven's light, speaker of unquestioned truth, teacher of faith, self proclaimed prophet, symbol of unchallenged victory, golden mountain and many more impressive titles.

I want to know, why I cannot store anymore enought explosive devices in my ship to utterly decimate it entirely?

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#66 - 2012-07-27 18:49:48 UTC
Vaari wrote:
What is the point of self destruct anymore.

Im Lord Vaari, earl of Sosan VII, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharmacy, skilled miner, archbishop of the Church of Providence, carrier of the Heaven's light, speaker of unquestioned truth, teacher of faith, self proclaimed prophet, symbol of unchallenged victory, golden mountain and many more impressive titles.

I want to know, why I cannot store anymore enought explosive devices in my ship to utterly decimate it entirely?

Because f*** you, thats why.
On a serious note, I do agree that a self destructed ship should not drop modules.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Myz Toyou
Nekkid Inc.
#67 - 2012-07-27 18:56:18 UTC
jonnykefka wrote:
Myz Toyou wrote:
Lord Maldoror wrote:
Great to see this change finally under way.

I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.

In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).

For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).

As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.

There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction.


I predict an increase of 20 - 30% of WH cap kill mails after the patch goes live.


You're being pretty conservative with that estimate. 50% or more, unless they stop coming out of the shields altogether.


I´m being conservative cos we saw less SDs from 6 month back till today but maybe we were just lucky running into less tards lately.
Aareya
Backwater Redux
Tactical Narcotics Team
#68 - 2012-07-27 18:58:05 UTC
I agree with the other replies that suggest self destruct should destroy cargo. However, for fitted modules, self-destruct should run the same chance to drop or destroy as if the ship was destroyed by others. This gives a nice balance between maintaining the spirit of the self-destruct while still providing incentive to those who caused the pilot to self-destruct.

Twitter:   @AareyaEVE
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#69 - 2012-07-27 19:01:49 UTC
My preference would be that SD doesn't drop modules, but it also doesn't pay insurance. That way, you can choose to give nothing to your enemies, but you wouldn't get any insurance yourself.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
Yanaoo
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#70 - 2012-07-27 19:07:53 UTC
Now just prevent SDing inside POS shields and W-space residents will love you long time.
G0hme
Illusion of Flight
#71 - 2012-07-27 19:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: G0hme
<3 CCP Masterplan! Poke me at FF2013 for a Guinness and an Oban!

Two step wrote:
My preference would be that SD doesn't drop modules, but it also doesn't pay insurance. That way, you can choose to give nothing to your enemies, but you wouldn't get any insurance yourself.


Well its still chance based, which would be equal to the level of incompetance of the person setting up in the charges inside your ship. Put them up right, no salvaged loot, miss a spot - loot drops! Makes perfect sense. Am I the only one thinking: "Mini-Game" when you initiate SD? Would love to be able to run around my ship placing charges and then run back to the escape pod just in time for the explosion not to kill my clone!

SD Timers:

Frigates: 30sec
Cruisers: 1sec
Battleships: 2min
Capitals: 5mins
Supers: 10mins (You would need alot of time to set up all those charges)

Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012

Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013

Got NPC API removed from Wormhole Space.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#72 - 2012-07-27 19:10:55 UTC
What about players that set the self destruct and then eject. What happens and what does the kill report look like?

This still does not solve the SD at a pos thing.

Maybe every kill in WH space creates a kill report?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#73 - 2012-07-27 19:10:56 UTC
Aareya wrote:
I agree with the other replies that suggest self destruct should destroy cargo. However, for fitted modules, self-destruct should run the same chance to drop or destroy as if the ship was destroyed by others. This gives a nice balance between maintaining the spirit of the self-destruct while still providing incentive to those who caused the pilot to self-destruct.


No one asked your opinion, wench.

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#74 - 2012-07-27 19:19:44 UTC
not sure about that. The killreport for not killing a ship might make many killboard power user happy. But the cargo drop change somehow removes a fun game mechanic.


also a question:

what happens if you self destruct in a T3? Wiki states no skills get lost, TQ behavior has always been a bit random.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#75 - 2012-07-27 19:29:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Two step wrote:
My preference would be that SD doesn't drop modules, but it also doesn't pay insurance. That way, you can choose to give nothing to your enemies, but you wouldn't get any insurance yourself.
I like this idea.

Making SDs like any other kill rather removes their purpose except as a way of not triggering your clone jump timer.

If they were used as a “last spite” effort — yielding no intel and no loot — then that purpose would remain (of course “no intel” would only mean that the KM showed an empty ship, not that one wasn't posted), but that last middle finger should indeed come at a cost.

…oh, and yes, when you're brave enough to do it devs, the timers really could use a once-over to make them scale with the general durability of the ship.
Minmatar Citizen 76959458587
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-07-27 19:34:30 UTC
Yanaoo wrote:
Now just prevent SDing inside POS shields and W-space residents will love you long time.


+∞
Scrym
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-07-27 19:50:29 UTC
Dovinian wrote:
Excellent change! Thanks for pushing this through.


No, no. Thank YOU
Candente
Navy Veteran Club
#78 - 2012-07-27 19:51:36 UTC
About the SD change... while the generating killmail part makes sense, the part of retaining loot doesn't. In common sense, self-destructing your own ship needs to be denying something the enemy would gain otherwise. After this change it becomes that you do your enemies a favor by self destructing and save their time to kill you... which is pretty convoluted imo.
G0hme
Illusion of Flight
#79 - 2012-07-27 19:59:14 UTC  |  Edited by: G0hme
Candente wrote:
About the SD change... while the generating killmail part makes sense, the part of retaining loot doesn't. In common sense, self-destructing your own ship needs to be denying something the enemy would gain otherwise. After this change it becomes that you do your enemies a favor by self destructing and save their time to kill you... which is pretty convoluted imo.


Thats a load of bull, nobody want the mods of your T2 fit Carrier anyway. Assuming that people SD to keep a few modules from falling into the enemies hands is why they do it is ridiculos and naive. Its to not have it show up and the killboard and nothing else! You can't vapourize a ship.

Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012

Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013

Got NPC API removed from Wormhole Space.
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#80 - 2012-07-27 19:59:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Durzel
Candente wrote:
About the SD change... while the generating killmail part makes sense, the part of retaining loot doesn't. In common sense, self-destructing your own ship needs to be denying something the enemy would gain otherwise. After this change it becomes that you do your enemies a favor by self destructing and save their time to kill you... which is pretty convoluted imo.

Agree with the above.

Generating a kill report is fine, dropping loot isn't imo. Scuttling your ship has to serve some function beyond "I'm stuck in WH space", otherwise you might as well remove the timer completely.