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Self-destruct changes on Singularity

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Cecil Arongo
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2012-07-27 17:28:58 UTC
Awesome change, Masterplan!

Now, about salvaging corpses for the implants... proposal coming Soon!

This is for all you new people: I have one rule. Everyone fights, no one quits. If you dont do your job I will shoot you myself. DO YOU GET ME?
David Barr
Perkone
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-07-27 17:29:35 UTC
Fantastic, it now makes so much more sense. This really is great news.
Lord Maldoror
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
#43 - 2012-07-27 17:30:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Maldoror
Great to see this change finally under way.

I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.

In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).

For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).

As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.

There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction.

Rooks and Kings Youtube
Possum's Awesome
Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo
#44 - 2012-07-27 17:32:58 UTC
Gibbo3771 wrote:
Change it so the loot doesent drop fs, I am pretty sure if you hit self destruct on anything with such a function, it is designed to kill everything attached/part of it.



We've had it that way for years. Except for the market being affected by any extra high meta modules that used to be lost with SD, there's no reason to keep it this way, except for ego.
Sykin Mullerian
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-07-27 17:33:58 UTC
Dont care that much about the loot, i was perfectly fine with people denying me loot if they want to. Would be nice if self destructing a ship took out your pod though, at least for wormhole sieges where its very easy to end up with locals that just sit in their shield and self destruct everything.

Its definitely a step in the right direction though and very much appreciated!
Doodle Dingle
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2012-07-27 17:34:58 UTC
In one way, I really like this change - nothing worse than a cap self destructing right in front of you..

In another way, this ruins what I believed was the very reason for the Self destruct to be a part of this game?
- To give the attacked a way to rob the attackers(if they are not good enough/enough people) from having a look at your super top secret technology/fitting.

Why would we have a self destruct in the first place if it wasn't intended to work as we see it in all the sci-fi movies. (****, we are ******, don't let our technology fall into enemy hands - SD initiated)

With this change, however, it would be sweet if CCP could make self destructing inside a POS impossible as well. You can't fire, target etc. inside a POS.. Makes sense to remove SD'ing inside a POS aswell, now where SD is no longer a feature to prevent the generation og KM's.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-07-27 17:39:56 UTC
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#48 - 2012-07-27 17:44:30 UTC
I guess I'm one of few that doesn't 100% like this change, but whatever, if the majority wants it.. I do see benefits ofc.

For the records I have missed numberous supercap, capital, Orca and whatnot mails thanks to the no-mail-from-sd, and I havn't denied anyone a mail from selfdestructing myself. But I did like the option, that you could potentially grief someone while you died, and I know I planned to do this for certain ships if they were ever caught. I'm a bit 50/50 on this so fine with the changes, but I can't help but feel this takes away some of the fun from the game. (that being said, if players weren't so damn killmail horny and/or we removed killmails completely, noone would've cared about sd, right? it's just bad player mentality, not bad mechanics)

The loot changes tho, is pure love, and something that made more sense. You can still deny people loot by shooting wrecks etc, but this makes it more balanced imho.

Grats to all of you that have wished for this. P

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Mirei Jun
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-07-27 17:47:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirei Jun
So! You've finally seen the light!

(FYI, that guy on the right who can't see it is a dev from the past 7 years)
Myz Toyou
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-07-27 17:48:53 UTC
Best change ever in a long time, thanks CCP for fixing a broken mechanic.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#51 - 2012-07-27 17:48:57 UTC
Not sure which is more awesome: this long overdue brilliant change, or the tear-generating potential this change brings.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-07-27 17:49:43 UTC
This is great news, thank you for this awesome change.
Miura Bull
Screaming Hayabusa
#53 - 2012-07-27 17:55:10 UTC
Good news! Any chance to backdate this so I can have my jag-on-machariel killmail? I'm not mad or anything nor do I ever get flashbacks to that fateful day. K thanks bye. P
Bagehi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-07-27 17:56:05 UTC
I cannot press "like" enough on this post.
Royal Jedi
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#55 - 2012-07-27 17:56:07 UTC
So much love.
Warlord Shat
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-07-27 17:57:20 UTC
Best change in a long time
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#57 - 2012-07-27 18:11:57 UTC
Two step wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Thomas Kreshant wrote:
Jiska Ensa wrote:
Can we at least now make self-destruct happen faster? Say 10 seconds instead of two minutes? ?


This ^

As the only reason I can see for it taking so long to self destruct was to give people chance to kill you can we simply have a self destruct followed by are you sure insta destruct change added please.



The CSM threw up a thread about self-destruct creating kill reports when we first took office, and have been discussing it with CCP off and on since than whenever the subject came up. I'm not entirely convinced we need INSTANT self-destruct, but one of the CSM's suggestions was to scale the self-destruct sequence based on the size of ship. So maybe pods could be near instant, frigates might be 10 seconds, cruisers 30, battleships 60 seconds, capitals 2 minutes, etc. (Though these numbers are just an example)

Thoughts? We'll be happy to keep bugging the devs about the timer length if its something that's important to you all.


Actually, it even predates CSM 7, and has long been one of our top issues.

There are a couple of problems with reducing the SD time:
1) Accidents. You need to give people a chance to cancel
2) Preventing people from reshipping. If you kill an enemy's ship, you might not want to pod them so that it will take them longer to get back into the fight. They might have to clear a bubble or have a corpmate kill them to get back to their cloning station, and sometimes that is a good thing.

I do support some sort of reduction of the timer, I think a minute seems more reasonable to me.

As discussed above, there are tactical implications to altering the timers, which we don't want to mess with right now.


Mumtaz Khan wrote:
This is the best update since pod-kill reports!

Every time I see a full Slave set on a kill, I smile.


Lord Maldoror wrote:
Great to see this change finally under way.

I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.

In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).

For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).

As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.

There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction.

Yes, we've been kicking around this discussion with the CSM for a while now, and I think I remember seeing Meissa bringing up those numbers.


Bagehi wrote:
I cannot press "like" enough on this post.

What about this one?

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Crassus Detlator
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-07-27 18:13:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Crassus Detlator
This is a great change!


Regarding the timer discussion...

"CCP Masterplan" wrote:
As discussed above, there are tactical implications to altering the timers, which we don't want to mess with right now.


oops. sorry.



What I would really like to see, is some kind of flag on the killmail that states that the player self-destructed.
"Final blow" could be swapped for "Self-destructed". That way, the looting still occurs, the ship destroyed still affects the killboards, everybody involved gets a killmail, but it properly reflects what happened on the battlefield.
After all, self-destructing should be some valid (albeit cowardly) way of denying the "Final blow" to someone else. And that should be its only "gain" in battle.
Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-07-27 18:18:26 UTC
I like timers as they are. It gives two minutes to get as many friends on the ship as possible before blowing it up.

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP
Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors
#60 - 2012-07-27 18:28:41 UTC
I disagree with the loot drop. I don't fly any caps so I can't say this really affects me, but I understand when a pilot SD's in order to deny any mods from dropped. Its a tactical decision a pilot makes with his ship.

The kill mail part, however, is full on win sauce.