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Allow characters with high SEC rating to shoot first
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Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#1 - 2012-07-16 17:56:15 UTC
One of the challenges for a newer player going from Hisec to Lowsec is the threat of the gate camp. Hi-Lo transitions are often camped 24X7 in more active regions. The gate campers themselves tend to have a SEC rating of something below 0 (known pirate).

I propose that CCP allows those players with a SEC rating above +2.0 to be allowed to shoot on site (without loss of SEC status and without CONCCORD intervention) any player with SEC status -1.0 or lower in all space (high/low).

Currently, any time a player with positive SEC status jumps through a Hi-Low transition, they have to wait for pirates to shoot them before they can return fire without risking SEC loss. I want an even playing field. Let the good guys shoot first too! This will give more players (especially younger ones) the tools they need to jump into LOWSEC and start a fight, instead of trying to flee from their first few engagements. Currently, characters with decent SEC status are required to wait to be shot (gate blob mechanics makes this stupid).

Pirates roam around in HISEC and LOWSEC unchecked because anyone with decent SEC status isn't allowed to engage without impacting their SEC status the WRONG direction. A pirate does so and is rewarded with a BETTER pirate SEC status.

This gives a clear path to moving out of HIghsec.
#1: Do missions to get your security rating up.
#2: Jump into low and get you some space ship explosions
ilammy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-07-16 18:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ilammy
You can shoot any player with security status –5.0 or lower anywhere without Concord interference, no?
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#3 - 2012-07-16 18:08:10 UTC
ilammy wrote:
You can shoot any player with security status –5.0 or lower anywhere without Concord interference, no?


Yes, no risk of SEC loss on -5 or more, but I want to shoot all pirates. Call me greedy :)

A lot of gate campers I see lately are between -0.1 and -5.0
ilammy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-07-16 18:24:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ilammy
And I want to shoot all the people with sec. status higher that zero in highsec, so what?

That guys do work for their sec. status to reman in these bounds. Although, there's an easier way to gain sec. status than running missions.

And after that... Risking security status. Is that the only thing that is leashing you? I thought there were some other problems like sentry guns and so on.
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#5 - 2012-07-16 18:26:15 UTC
ilammy wrote:
And I want to shoot all the people with sec. status higher that zero in highsec, so what?

That guys do work for their sec. status to reman in these bounds. Although, there's an easier way to gain sec. status than running missions.



You have NULL for that. Those rules already support that playstyle.

High SEC status players should be able to do so in HISEC.

LOWSEC is a middle ground, and I can agree that there, everyone should be able to shoot opposing SEC status. I agree there.
ilammy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-07-16 18:33:07 UTC
Everybody can shoot anybody anywhere. The only difference is consequences.

You jump into a camp, and the first thing you do is considering the sec. status you would lose? Not the ships you can try to kill? Not how to escape if you can't do anything to them? Not the way to draw the fight away from the sentries?

What are you complaining about, if you do jump, encounter a camp, want to pass, don't want to fight, and they do not agress?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#7 - 2012-07-16 18:40:39 UTC
If you want to shoot first, then do it. But there are consequences for that if they are without GCC, or have a higher than -5 sec status.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that is reason enough for change.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#8 - 2012-07-16 18:44:54 UTC
Mag's wrote:
If you want to shoot first, then do it. But there are consequences for that if they are without GCC, or have a higher than -5 sec status.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that is reason enough for change.


That is exactly what the suggestions forum is for. To bring up ideas on how to improve the game. "Improve" being the key word here--much of it is subjective and related to opinion. My suggestion (based on my opinion) is valid no matter how much you think yours is better. You disagree: awesome, thank you for posting.

A pirate can shoot someone of ANY SEC rating in low and be fine with it (they are a pirate after all). A person with a high SEC rating worked hard to get there, and may not want to risk losing it by initiating combat with a pirate.

It is a logical fallacy and a hindrance to PVP.
ilammy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-07-16 18:51:38 UTC
Don't want to risk — don't go to fight, stay in your precious highsec, because the next thing you can say is 'may not want to risk losing a ship by initiating a combat'. So what then? Give an invulnerability to people with better sec. status because they're 'stopping the criminal scum and fight for justice'?
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#10 - 2012-07-16 18:53:29 UTC
ilammy wrote:
Don't want to risk — don't go to fight, stay in your precious highsec, because the next thing you can say is 'may not want to risk losing a ship by initiating a combat'. So what then? Give an invulnerability to people with better sec. status because they're 'stopping the criminal scum and fight for justice'?



Who said anything about invulnerability? I just want to be able to initiate combat. Don't try to turn this into some kind of carebear crap. It is the opposite. I want to shoot pirates. In the face.

Stop making **** up.

I work out of LOWSEC btw. Keep your insults to yourself. I hold nothing in hisec "precious".
ilammy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-07-16 18:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ilammy
Do you want to fight? You are able to intiate the combat. You can shoot them in the face. Don't try to convince me that the only thing that is preventing you from doing this is the... oh my god... security status falling from 5.0 to 4.8.

At last you can declare a war and shoot them even in highsec, disregarding all that security status crap.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#12 - 2012-07-16 18:56:34 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Mag's wrote:
If you want to shoot first, then do it. But there are consequences for that if they are without GCC, or have a higher than -5 sec status.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that is reason enough for change.


That is exactly what the suggestions forum is for. To bring up ideas on how to improve the game. "Improve" being the key word here--much of it is subjective and related to opinion. My suggestion (based on my opinion) is valid no matter how much you think yours is better. You disagree: awesome, thank you for posting.

A pirate can shoot someone of ANY SEC rating in low and be fine with it (they are a pirate after all). A person with a high SEC rating worked hard to get there, and may not want to risk losing it by initiating combat with a pirate.

It is a logical fallacy and a hindrance to PVP.
No it's not a logical fallacy, it's game rules and the mechanics that drive them. It may be a hindrance to you, but that's because you don't want to use the tools already provided.

You are not improving the game, you are merely asking for a change, because you don't want the consequences. Well more news at eleven, Eve is all about consequences.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#13 - 2012-07-16 18:57:04 UTC
ilammy wrote:
Do you want to fight? You are able to intiate the combat. You can shoot them in the face. Don't try to convince me that the only thing that is preventing you from doing this is the... oh my god... security status falling from 5.0 to 4.8.



If it isn't such a big deal to you, then you agree it should not change when it is initiated on such terms? Excellent! That is all I am asking for.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#14 - 2012-07-16 18:59:57 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:
ilammy wrote:
Do you want to fight? You are able to intiate the combat. You can shoot them in the face. Don't try to convince me that the only thing that is preventing you from doing this is the... oh my god... security status falling from 5.0 to 4.8.



If it isn't such a big deal to you, then you agree it should not change when it is initiated on such terms? Excellent! That is all I am asking for.


Danny Diamonds wrote:
Stop making **** up.
Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#15 - 2012-07-16 19:03:30 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Danny Diamonds wrote:
ilammy wrote:
Do you want to fight? You are able to intiate the combat. You can shoot them in the face. Don't try to convince me that the only thing that is preventing you from doing this is the... oh my god... security status falling from 5.0 to 4.8.



If it isn't such a big deal to you, then you agree it should not change when it is initiated on such terms? Excellent! That is all I am asking for.


Danny Diamonds wrote:
Stop making **** up.
Blink



Fair. I apologize. My point was too buried in sarcasm.

Just tired of people claiming I am some kind of carebear when I want to shoot criminals on sight. I want to fight, and I think it is crap they that can initiate and move closer to their goal (pirate) while I have to move away from my goal (+5) to do so.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#16 - 2012-07-16 19:06:46 UTC
It's been pointed out numerous times, you can shoot. Or you could, wait for it I know this is a radical suggestion, you could wait till they start shooting, then shoot back. Win win. ShockedBig smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#17 - 2012-07-16 19:11:30 UTC
Mag's wrote:
It's been pointed out numerous times, you can shoot. Or you could, wait for it I know this is a radical suggestion, you could wait till they start shooting, then shoot back. Win win. ShockedBig smile


How do you keep missing my point? Seriously are you reading anything?

In a 30 second fight, who ever initiates has the advantage. I want a fair opportunity (either party can initiate the fight with PROPER security rating adjustments for the action). I don't think it is right that SEC rating is a measure of your legal/illegal activities and shooting a KNOWN CRIMINAL first would mean I slowly move toward pirate. How is this so hard to understand?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#18 - 2012-07-16 19:17:52 UTC
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Mag's wrote:
It's been pointed out numerous times, you can shoot. Or you could, wait for it I know this is a radical suggestion, you could wait till they start shooting, then shoot back. Win win. ShockedBig smile


How do you keep missing my point? Seriously are you reading anything?

In a 30 second fight, who ever initiates has the advantage. I want a fair opportunity (either party can initiate the fight with PROPER security rating adjustments for the action). I don't think it is right that SEC rating is a measure of your legal/illegal activities and shooting a KNOWN CRIMINAL first would mean I slowly move toward pirate. How is this so hard to understand?
I didn't miss your point, I know you want the best of both worlds. To have the ability to shoot first and no consequences.

You seem to be missing the whole point of Eve, it has consequences.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Danny Diamonds
Fabricated Reality
#19 - 2012-07-16 19:26:41 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Danny Diamonds wrote:
Mag's wrote:
It's been pointed out numerous times, you can shoot. Or you could, wait for it I know this is a radical suggestion, you could wait till they start shooting, then shoot back. Win win. ShockedBig smile


How do you keep missing my point? Seriously are you reading anything?

In a 30 second fight, who ever initiates has the advantage. I want a fair opportunity (either party can initiate the fight with PROPER security rating adjustments for the action). I don't think it is right that SEC rating is a measure of your legal/illegal activities and shooting a KNOWN CRIMINAL first would mean I slowly move toward pirate. How is this so hard to understand?
I didn't miss your point, I know you want the best of both worlds. To have the ability to shoot first and no consequences.

You seem to be missing the whole point of Eve, it has consequences.


Why should shooting a known pirate have consequences of negative security rating? Isn't the pvp risk fair that way? If either initiates, they both are at risk. There are individuals who have camped Hi-Low noob area gates for weeks at a time (still above the magic -5.0!) and yet anyone who initiates combat on them is hit with a negative SEC adjustment? How is that right at all?
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#20 - 2012-07-16 19:58:27 UTC
I wonder how many of those criminals you so badly want to shoot are those who have done what you want to do. Ie, they shot first, they lost a bit of sec (and ship) and moved on.
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