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What keeps you from PvPing?

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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#661 - 2012-11-28 15:32:12 UTC
I can't see Anslo's post, someone quote it so I can revel in his eternal butt hurt.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#662 - 2012-11-28 15:32:49 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Don't bother arguing with Jenna Side on this topic. They simply cling to their ways and refuse to budge on any matter. It's like arguing with a pigeon.


I'm still trying to figure out the part where it thinks that without combat between players, the EVE economy would die...


Plenty of mission runners new to the game still need ships and ammo. Plenty of explorers still need probes, and codebreakers etc, plenty of incursion runners still need battleships and there are plenty of PI players that need surface facilities.

PvP combat in EVE is not the be-all and end-all of the game, it's just another part of it. It doesn't matter if you think it's the only part, because the fact that many other activities exist proves you wrong.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Auric Veldfinger
Doomheim
#663 - 2012-11-28 15:33:04 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
How convenient for you.

How about another:

Are suicide gankers engaged in PvP? Are they PvPers?

I'm guessing you won't want to talk about them either, so we can shortcut straight to Sov warfare if you'd like.


Don't forget bounty hunters. Looks like CCP just wasted 6 months. Sad
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
#664 - 2012-11-28 15:37:27 UTC
The PVP I am generally getting involved in at the moment is defending our little bit of space with corp mates as reds make their way in and out of the area. And yes we normally try and outnumber and out gun those ships, and really who wouldn’t? when you on comms no one will say oh you 3 stay behind as we don’t want to outnumber the reds coming in. anyone coming in you hope to crush and destroy, likewise if there are only 4 or 5 of us in system and we get a 40+ red spike we are going to safe up. It isn’t like they choose 1 ship and you choose 1 ship and everyone else spectates.

I would like to get involved in the more meaningful PVP and when I say meaningful I mean the PVP that is indicated by several of the CCP trailers where it shows big fleets trying to protect or overrun a system so that they gain that territory, that kind of PVP actually has a bit more going for it I think.

I would also like to get more involved in 1v1 PVP as someone totally inexperienced with that I think it would be nice to fight someone in that method and then talk about in local, gf etc, must do this again some time. I can see how it is frustrating when if you want to go solo PVP you have to deal with large gate camps and/or 5+ in a fleet with more on the way. This goes beyond the challenge of trying to kill 2 reds with your 1 ship.

But then you do have to do the other stuff, missions, mining, indy etc to pay for your loses or to buy better fits.
Anslo
Scope Works
#665 - 2012-11-28 15:38:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I can't see Anslo's post, someone quote it so I can revel in his eternal butt hurt.


So you didn't block me. If you did, you would not see that I posted at all. ....Interesting.

Remiel Pollard wrote:


I'm still trying to figure out the part where it thinks that without combat between players, the EVE economy would die...

Plenty of mission runners new to the game still need ships and ammo. Plenty of explorers still need probes, and codebreakers etc, plenty of incursion runners still need battleships and there are plenty of PI players that need surface facilities.


While this is true, capital ships, super caps, and other ships are more often destroyed in PvP than anything else. In a sense, Jenna Side is correct. Conflict is a market driver. What I do not agree with it on is the stalwart and stubborn stance they take that everything is pvp, and if you do not pvp, you are a second class citizen.

That extremism is detrimental to Eve.

Quote:
PvP combat in EVE is not the be-all and end-all of the game, it's just another part of it. It doesn't matter if you think it's the only part, because the fact that many other activities exist proves you wrong.


Exactly. Eve is a sandbox. Pvp is a part of it, a good chunk of it in fact, but it is not the entire sandbox. This is something extremist PvP'ers and bittervets refuse to acknowledge.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#666 - 2012-11-28 15:38:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
As for the question, yes, gankers are engaged in pvp if there is a player at the keyboard directing the ship getting ganked. If the ship getting ganked is controlled by a bot then its not PVP, its PVB lol.


So then the fact that both the mercenary and the ganker are getting paid to PvP, quite contrary to your earlier assertion, really has no bearing on the situation?

Speaking of LOLing and concession.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#667 - 2012-11-28 15:38:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Don't bother arguing with Jenna Side on this topic. They simply cling to their ways and refuse to budge on any matter. It's like arguing with a pigeon.


I'm still trying to figure out the part where it thinks that without combat between players, the EVE economy would die...


Plenty of mission runners new to the game still need ships and ammo. Plenty of explorers still need probes, and codebreakers etc, plenty of incursion runners still need battleships and there are plenty of PI players that need surface facilities.

PvP combat in EVE is not the be-all and end-all of the game, it's just another part of it. It doesn't matter if you think it's the only part, because the fact that many other activities exist proves you wrong.


I figured you'd show up lol. Anytime the opportunity to be newbish and wrong pops up, Remiel Pollard to the rescue :) .

You don't understand the scale of EVE if you think noob mission runners shooting ammo can sustain this economy. I bolded the worst part, where did i say combat pvp was the ONLY thing? If it were, i'm playing the game wrong by shooting red boxes in null sec, low sec and high sec everyday lol.

The point is, PVP is the core of EVE, the king of the hill, the fountain from which all other activites spring, the Sun at the center of the EVE solar system ect ect. Not liking pvp doesn't change this fact. Not wanting to pvp is no crime, denying it's primacy and importance, it's "centrality" to EVE damn near IS a crime lol.

Dont pvp is you don't want to, but stop making stupid excuses, man up and just say "i don't want to and I don't have to".
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#668 - 2012-11-28 15:41:29 UTC
Auric Veldfinger wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
How convenient for you.

How about another:

Are suicide gankers engaged in PvP? Are they PvPers?

I'm guessing you won't want to talk about them either, so we can shortcut straight to Sov warfare if you'd like.


Don't forget bounty hunters. Looks like CCP just wasted 6 months. Sad


Not PvPers. Obviously.

Lol
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#669 - 2012-11-28 15:43:19 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
As for the question, yes, gankers are engaged in pvp if there is a player at the keyboard directing the ship getting ganked. If the ship getting ganked is controlled by a bot then its not PVP, its PVB lol.


So then the fact that both the mercenary and the ganker are getting paid to PvP, quite contrary to your earlier assertion, really has no bearing on the situation?

Speaking of LOLing and concession.


I dislike when people start throwing around the strawman accusation, because not every disagreement is a strawman argument.

But in this case, this is what you are doing, you are either willfully misunderstanding what I said or you do understand and are lying like a politician. If you don't understand what I'm saying, ask for clarification, assuming you know when you don't is simply a display of lacking intelligence or worse.

The fact is if you need "rewards" to pvp in a pvp game pvp isn't for you. That doens't mean the merc or ganker isn't pvping, it means that in my opinion if they NEED some kind of reward other than fun, they'd probably have more fun doing something else.
Ritsum
Perkone
Caldari State
#670 - 2012-11-28 15:48:11 UTC
I am a proud High Sec player and cannot do Ship PVP for the life of me... So I was just wondering if I went down into Low sec and lost a few ships trying to "PvP" and got no kills just losses since I suck so much, would I be loved by you low sec / null sec players just for trying or would I be Shunned for be a "newb who doesn't know how to play properly and should just quit!"?

Play EvE how you want to play it and do not let others dictate how you play. Evolve your playstyle to protect yourself from others! Even in "PVE", "PVP" is there, lurking in the shadows.
Auric Veldfinger
Doomheim
#671 - 2012-11-28 15:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Auric Veldfinger
Ritsum wrote:
I am a proud High Sec player and cannot do Ship PVP for the life of me... So I was just wondering if I went down into Low sec and lost a few ships trying to "PvP" and got no kills just losses since I suck so much, would I be loved by you low sec / null sec players just for trying or would I be Shunned for be a "newb who doesn't know how to play properly and should just quit!"?


If someone shuns you for losing ships they are just an arishole. But more to the point, you shouldn't really care what anyone else thinks about anything you do.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#672 - 2012-11-28 15:51:06 UTC
Anslo wrote:
...capital ships, super caps, and other ships are more often destroyed in PvP than anything else. In a sense, Jenna Side is correct. Conflict is a market driver. What I do not agree with it on is the stalwart and stubborn stance they take that everything is pvp, and if you do not pvp, you are a second class citizen.

That extremism is detrimental to Eve.

Quote:
PvP combat in EVE is not the be-all and end-all of the game, it's just another part of it. It doesn't matter if you think it's the only part, because the fact that many other activities exist proves you wrong.


Exactly. Eve is a sandbox. Pvp is a part of it, a good chunk of it in fact, but it is not the entire sandbox. This is something extremist PvP'ers and bittervets refuse to acknowledge.


I never denied that PvP is a market driver, I just noted that it wouldn't be a market killer if it ceased completely. How many players are running caps in low and nul compared to how many are running everything else, for example? I also won't deny that EVE is, by the crudest of definitions, a player v. player game, in which you are constantly contesting with other players, be it for a better slice of the marketplace or a better dps than a combat opponent. EVE is, at its core, a multiplayer game, but it's not all player v. player - running incursion fleets is more like player WITH player, as opposed to versus, for example, as a cooperative activity instead of a contest one. Unless another fleet shows up to contest a site, of course, but then it becomes both a cooperative and a contested activity.

I get the feeling that a lot of people just see EVE as a black-and-white you are or you aren't sort of game without realising the many different nuances of player interaction that are possible in this game.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kenneth Goddard
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#673 - 2012-11-28 15:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
*snip*

EDIT: Please do not try to evade the word filter - ISD Type40.
Auric Veldfinger
Doomheim
#674 - 2012-11-28 15:55:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
As for the question, yes, gankers are engaged in pvp if there is a player at the keyboard directing the ship getting ganked. If the ship getting ganked is controlled by a bot then its not PVP, its PVB lol.


So then the fact that both the mercenary and the ganker are getting paid to PvP, quite contrary to your earlier assertion, really has no bearing on the situation?

Speaking of LOLing and concession.


I dislike when people start throwing around the strawman accusation, because not every disagreement is a strawman argument.

But in this case, this is what you are doing, you are either willfully misunderstanding what I said or you do understand and are lying like a politician. If you don't understand what I'm saying, ask for clarification, assuming you know when you don't is simply a display of lacking intelligence or worse.

The fact is if you need "rewards" to pvp in a pvp game pvp isn't for you. That doens't mean the merc or ganker isn't pvping, it means that in my opinion if they NEED some kind of reward other than fun, they'd probably have more fun doing something else.


They might be "sellouts", but they are still doing real pvp, and pvp is what they are doing. Can''t change that fact.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#675 - 2012-11-28 15:57:56 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
As for the question, yes, gankers are engaged in pvp if there is a player at the keyboard directing the ship getting ganked. If the ship getting ganked is controlled by a bot then its not PVP, its PVB lol.


So then the fact that both the mercenary and the ganker are getting paid to PvP, quite contrary to your earlier assertion, really has no bearing on the situation?

Speaking of LOLing and concession.


I dislike when people start throwing around the strawman accusation, because not every disagreement is a strawman argument.

But in this case, this is what you are doing, you are either willfully misunderstanding what I said or you do understand and are lying like a politician. If you don't understand what I'm saying, ask for clarification, assuming you know when you don't is simply a display of lacking intelligence or worse.

The fact is if you need "rewards" to pvp in a pvp game pvp isn't for you. That doens't mean the merc or ganker isn't pvping, it means that in my opinion if they NEED some kind of reward other than fun, they'd probably have more fun doing something else.


You said people that need to be paid to PvP aren't PvPers. That's not a strawman, that's a quote of an affirmative position.

It struck me that your complete disregard for cost/benefit (or "risk/reward" as we like to say around here) evaluation demonstrated a less than thorough understanding, or perhaps even a willful misstatement. Were I unkind I might suggest you didn't know wtf you were talking about.

I do appreciate you clarifying your initial position by retreat to the proposition that in your opinion that anyone who NEEDs a reason other than fun to PvP for fun might have more fun doing something else (for fun, I assume).

Though it does seem you've painted yourself into a rather meaningless corner.

Are we done now?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#676 - 2012-11-28 16:02:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:



I figured you'd show up lol. Anytime the opportunity to be newbish and wrong pops up, Remiel Pollard to the rescue :) .



And I had no doubt that any kind of criticism you would concoct would begin with immature, childish condescension.

Jenn aSide wrote:
You don't understand the scale of EVE if you think noob mission runners shooting ammo can sustain this economy. I bolded the worst part, where did i say combat pvp was the ONLY thing? If it were, i'm playing the game wrong by shooting red boxes in null sec, low sec and high sec everyday lol.


Every time you end a sentence with 'lol', I cringe a little. It reminds me of a certain degree of impertinence that my 12 year old sister would display whenever she used the word "whatever" to excuseher own childish and immature behaviour. I'm cringing even now, still considering whether or not responding to this is worth the time it takes to type it...

But if I were to state that you are playing the game wrong, then I would be contradicting my point that anyone can play it however they choose, provided it is within the bounds of the game's mechanics and the EULA.

Jenn aSide wrote:
The point is, PVP is the core of EVE, the king of the hill, the fountain from which all other activites spring, the Sun at the center of the EVE solar system ect ect. Not liking pvp doesn't change this fact. Not wanting to pvp is no crime, denying it's primacy and importance, it's "centrality" to EVE damn near IS a crime lol.


lol it's spelt "etc" lol not "ect" lol and don't you ever read my posts lol? I never said PVP was not a core theme lol I just said that PVP combat is not the only driving force of the economy lol so your assertions lol that the economy would die outright lol without pvp combat lol are bunk lol.

See.... that's how you sound.

Jenn aSide wrote:
Dont pvp is you don't want to, but stop making stupid excuses, man up and just say "i don't want to and I don't have to".


I get the feeling that if someone said "I don't want to and I don't have to," you would just turn around and still say "stop making excuses" - people aren't making excuses, they're explaining WHY they don't want to. These are called "reasons", not excuses. Obviously, they don't want to PvP, but having a reason why they don't want to means we can find a way to get them around that reason and get them into PvP, instead of just insulting and abusing them the way that you do.

Remember that - there is a difference between a reason and an excuse, but that doesn't invalidate a good excuse. You might not like hearing the reasons or excuses, but your opinion of them, whether poorly spelled or not, will never invalidate those reasons or excuses, no matter how many times you lol.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Klown Walk
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#677 - 2012-11-28 16:19:01 UTC
T3 links.
Izo Parun
#678 - 2012-11-28 16:24:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Don't pvp if you don't want to, but stop making stupid excuses, man up and just say "i don't want to and I don't have to".


Yeah unfortunately the title of this thread is "WHY don't you PVP?" so telling us to shut up about it goes against what the OP wanted and isn't on topic. In any case, I've posted what I wanted to, and so have you, and CCP will probably TLDR these 34 pages of drivel anyway.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#679 - 2012-11-28 16:24:39 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
As for the question, yes, gankers are engaged in pvp if there is a player at the keyboard directing the ship getting ganked. If the ship getting ganked is controlled by a bot then its not PVP, its PVB lol.


So then the fact that both the mercenary and the ganker are getting paid to PvP, quite contrary to your earlier assertion, really has no bearing on the situation?

Speaking of LOLing and concession.


I dislike when people start throwing around the strawman accusation, because not every disagreement is a strawman argument.

But in this case, this is what you are doing, you are either willfully misunderstanding what I said or you do understand and are lying like a politician. If you don't understand what I'm saying, ask for clarification, assuming you know when you don't is simply a display of lacking intelligence or worse.

The fact is if you need "rewards" to pvp in a pvp game pvp isn't for you. That doens't mean the merc or ganker isn't pvping, it means that in my opinion if they NEED some kind of reward other than fun, they'd probably have more fun doing something else.


You said people that need to be paid to PvP aren't PvPers. That's not a strawman, that's a quote of an affirmative position.

It struck me that your complete disregard for cost/benefit (or "risk/reward" as we like to say around here) evaluation demonstrated a less than thorough understanding, or perhaps even a willful misstatement. Were I unkind I might suggest you didn't know wtf you were talking about.

I do appreciate you clarifying your initial position by retreat to the proposition that in your opinion that anyone who NEEDs a reason other than fun to PvP for fun might have more fun doing something else (for fun, I assume).

Though it does seem you've painted yourself into a rather meaningless corner.

Are we done now?



We were dont at your 1st post. Your mistake (well, in this case, i'm sure you make others every few seconds) is taking an off hand remark as if it were the definitive statement of all creation. In my opinion, people who NEED rewards else they wouldn't pvp are not pvp'rs (in the same way a prostitute might be doing the aciton of "making love" but isn't really making love lol. I never said the actions they were taking "wasn't pvp", obviously those interactions. I retreated from nothing, you misunderstood, then blamed me for you misunderstanding.

It' is evidence of a weak personality to do that, but by all means, continue to prop up your ego by believing it was somehow my fault.

Again, in the future, if you don't understand what is being said (especially when what is being said is to someone other than you), feel free to ask for clarification, jumping to the conculsions you did were simply foolish.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#680 - 2012-11-28 16:31:37 UTC
Izo Parun wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Don't pvp if you don't want to, but stop making stupid excuses, man up and just say "i don't want to and I don't have to".


Yeah unfortunately the title of this thread is "WHY don't you PVP?" so telling us to shut up about it goes against what the OP wanted and isn't on topic. In any case, I've posted what I wanted to, and so have you, and CCP will probably TLDR these 34 pages of drivel anyway.


I am not the OP (and for the record, I think it's a rather senseless question to begin with, I , for example don't ask people why they don't grind anomalies or risk faction ships in lvl 5s lol, the answer is the obvious "because everyone isn't me".....). And I'm not telling anyone to shut up as I'm not CCP lol. I'm suggesting you shut up rather than make useless excuses about why you don't participate in an activity, which smacks of shame.

Why be ashamed? Why write a 7 paragraph post deriding "12 year old FCs" and "unreasonable skill point requriements" and "no one rewards me for pvping in a pvp game so i don't pvp" lol.

nothing i say will alter the stupidity, but as I like to say , i reserve the right (so long as CCP grants it) to point and laugh at such people and encourage others to point and laugh too.

Anyone who wants to "pvp" will find a way, if you want to be can't you have deeper problems than this video game can solve.