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New dev blog: The FW Exploit 2012 (or: How I learned about FOREX)

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Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-06-28 15:58:02 UTC
Shouldn't they also retain LP equivalent to 2 weeks worth of 'normal' game play?

They were playing, they did let you know and they did participate in Faction Warfare.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Katrina Bekers
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2012-06-28 15:58:53 UTC
Something had to be done - I think even the ones directly involved wouldn't argue about that.

Not too heavy handed, not too dismissive, a good middle point.

Still, I'd looooooooove to see a tiny, minuscule, diminutive admission by the lead designer(s) that the way FW was changed was so prone to abuse that it practically required the exploiting of those new mechanics by the Group Of Online Notorious 'Sploiters.

Still, CCP Sreegs best Sreegs.

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2012-06-28 15:59:26 UTC
Is it an exploit to take advantage of a naturally occuring disparity between market price and average price? In essence, can I farm this system if I didn't tamper with the average price in any way?

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#24 - 2012-06-28 15:59:33 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
corestwo wrote:
If he doesn't correct the graph, the major axis lines on it have to be at least 200m LP.


The graph was edited on purpose as we didn't see the value in divulging the number. The disparity is what's important.


Sorry to spoil your secrecy then Sad

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Nex apparatu5
Blackwood Co.
#25 - 2012-06-28 15:59:43 UTC
CCP resolved this fairly and reasonably.

WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH THE REAL CCP
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#26 - 2012-06-28 16:00:45 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
Shouldn't they also retain LP equivalent to 2 weeks worth of 'normal' game play?

They were playing, they did let you know and they did participate in Faction Warfare.


I really don't want to discuss actions against individual players any more than was detailed in the blog for informational purposes. Sorry duder.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-06-28 16:01:22 UTC
Can we get a statue in Yulai or something

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-06-28 16:01:55 UTC
then we can shoot at it until the fantastic five get their money back
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-06-28 16:03:48 UTC
Other posts bring up a intersting point though. If in the future, after the system is fixed/revamped whatever. If this becomes slightly possible again but not to the degree shown here, would that be legal? I am not trying to words lawyer, just trying to see where the boundary is.

Once something is reported, and time gone by to remediate, does anything after that pass muster?

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Swearte Widfarend
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#30 - 2012-06-28 16:06:21 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Is it an exploit to take advantage of a naturally occuring disparity between market price and average price? In essence, can I farm this system if I didn't tamper with the average price in any way?


Aryth wrote:
Other posts bring up a intersting point though. If in the future, after the system is fixed/revamped whatever. If this becomes slightly possible again but not to the degree shown here, would that be legal? I am not trying to words lawyer, just trying to see where the boundary is.

Once something is reported, and time gone by to remediate, does anything after that pass muster?


Sreegs - if we do not manipulate prices but do research to take advantage of existing market values, is this still exploiting? Your blog seems to hint that it is.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.
PDC Agni
Perseus Development Corporation
#31 - 2012-06-28 16:09:42 UTC
Instead of calculating LP based on total value why not create a value for each ship and then a range based on load out and cargo. For example a Rifter might base at 5 LP and get anywhere from 1-5 additional based on total value. A Jaguar might be 15 LP and have a 1-10 bonus available (numbers totally made up).
Cerebral Wolf
N.A.G.A Too
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#32 - 2012-06-28 16:11:10 UTC
we should be able to manipulate it, same as pretty much anything in eve can be manipulated. They should just have limits in place to stop it being so mental next time.
Squizz Caphinator
The Wormhole Police
#33 - 2012-06-28 16:11:14 UTC
Aryth wrote:

Highest Kill Value ever in EVE? http://imgur.com/1fSsT


API or GTFO :)

(no really, I'd love to see that on eve-kill as API verified)

Various projects I enjoy putting my free time into:

https://zkillboard.com | https://evewho.com
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#34 - 2012-06-28 16:12:55 UTC
Those guys deserve a nice spotlight, lore mention or smth like that at least. Even being an exploit it is a really good story to tell which EVE mechanics, our beloved sandbox allowed. A mention in the lore of a biggest fraud happened in new Eden is at least it can be done. And the fraud ending that those 5 guys warning the authorities about what happened and beacuse of that they got forgiven.

Well smth like that

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Drago Palermus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-06-28 16:13:39 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Other posts bring up a intersting point though. If in the future, after the system is fixed/revamped whatever. If this becomes slightly possible again but not to the degree shown here, would that be legal? I am not trying to words lawyer, just trying to see where the boundary is.

Once something is reported, and time gone by to remediate, does anything after that pass muster?

The boundary between exploitation and manipulation is gray, like the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. CCP would probably (loosely) define an exploit as: a method that can generate an infinite, or near-infinite, amount of isk in a short period of time with little-to-no risk to the participants.

Your hypothetical future scenario sounds more like arbitrage.

PS: I am jealous of your finance cabal. Oops
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#36 - 2012-06-28 16:13:56 UTC
Squizz Caphinator wrote:
Aryth wrote:

Highest Kill Value ever in EVE? http://imgur.com/1fSsT


API or GTFO :)

(no really, I'd love to see that on eve-kill as API verified)

Might not be as impressive on eve-kill depending on whether or not eve-kill uses the new kill value yet. Sad

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Apparent Decadence
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-06-28 16:18:54 UTC
Market manipulation is par for the course for Eve. No one seems to be bothered about the other side of this scheme - pre-arranged PVP kills.

In most PVP games, this is punishable. In Eve, it's not usually worthwhile. Here it was. Should it be punished?
Illectroculus Defined
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-06-28 16:19:30 UTC
Does this mean Twitter.com will get a PLEX for snitches reward?

(Aryth, if you ever need to use twitter in the future you should ask me how it works first :)
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2012-06-28 16:20:59 UTC
Apparent Decadence wrote:
Market manipulation is par for the course for Eve. No one seems to be bothered about the other side of this scheme - pre-arranged PVP kills.

In most PVP games, this is punishable. In Eve, it's not usually worthwhile. Here it was. Should it be punished?

hell no

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#40 - 2012-06-28 16:21:42 UTC
Drago Palermus wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Other posts bring up a intersting point though. If in the future, after the system is fixed/revamped whatever. If this becomes slightly possible again but not to the degree shown here, would that be legal? I am not trying to words lawyer, just trying to see where the boundary is.

Once something is reported, and time gone by to remediate, does anything after that pass muster?

The boundary between exploitation and manipulation is gray, like the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. CCP would probably (loosely) define an exploit as: a method that can generate an infinite, or near-infinite, amount of isk in a short period of time with little-to-no risk to the participants.

Your hypothetical future scenario sounds more like arbitrage.

PS: I am jealous of your finance cabal. Oops


Well whatever u want to call it mate, just get em in the lore!!! :DDDDD
i play this game just to read about these kind of stories and maybe one day be part in one of it :DD

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.