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Incarna/WiS Disappointment

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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#741 - 2012-08-04 16:07:30 UTC
Shepard Book wrote:
A blog would be nice please. There are still many of us interested in seeing any kind of progress.


Well, someone in CCP management has decided that the devblog will not be published and Team Avatar shall not talk about their protoyping any further.

WiS is gone from the scanner and likely avatars will be next (all that's left are sleeve tattoos and the remaining unreleased NEx items, which likely will gather a massive success and will see a lot of use by being gifted to FW PvPrs).

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#742 - 2012-08-04 16:09:27 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
NEx items, which likely will gather a massive success and will see a lot of use by being gifted to FW PvPrs).



Please don't say such things! You're frightening me! Shocked

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#743 - 2012-08-04 16:23:53 UTC
Mechael wrote:
Please don't say such things! You're frightening me! Shocked


NEX! Buga buga buga!

Seriously though... I fear Ishtanchuk is right. As long as we don't see anything new, it's save to assume that WiS died with the failure of the money shop...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#744 - 2012-08-04 16:27:12 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Mechael wrote:
Please don't say such things! You're frightening me! Shocked


NEX! Buga buga buga!

Seriously though... I fear Ishtanchuk is right. As long as we don't see anything new, it's save to assume that WiS died with the failure of the money shop...


Why, oh why, those two have to be intrinsically linked is beyond me.

Of course, it's far too late to back away from Aurum now. CCP has already brokered all the deals with the devil (er ... Sony) to attempt to help usher in a new era of F2P/P2W gaming.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#745 - 2012-08-05 13:47:29 UTC
the blog?

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#746 - 2012-08-05 13:54:02 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
We're here for spaceships.


And station trading, industry, socialising, and the rest of the science fiction universe. Some people are only here for the Internet spaceships.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#747 - 2012-08-05 14:16:13 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
the blog?


Has been cancelled, supressed, forbidden, thrown down the sink... you name it. The new WiS policy is this:

CCP Bayesian wrote:
Sorry for the radio silence for the past couple of weeks, I've been variously ill, spraining ankles and on holiday.

I've got bad news about the devblog we promised. It's been swallowed by the black hole of corporateness and won't be seeing the light of day for the foreseeable future. The team have been as vocal as we can about the merits of putting it out but to no avail. We're continuing to try and work out a way of showing you work we're proud of and think you will like but for now our hands are completely tied.


CCP Bayesian wrote:
Keep on being vocal about what you want to see happening in EVE.

We're not stopping work on anything, just not allowed to talk as openly as we have been and would like to about what we have been working on. I appreciate that's frustrating to everyone but we are going to continue working with everyone here at CCP to get something out there that shows you what we've been up to. It's important to me and the rest of Team Avatar too because we are proud of our work, think it's cool and want you guys to see it to demonstrate that we aren't all mouth and no trousers.


This evidences that WiS is not getting any production slot in the next 18 months, and that puts the earliest release date of WiS in 2015, assuming that 12 months were enough to develop it.

Draw your own conclussions.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#748 - 2012-08-05 14:17:07 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
And station trading, industry, socialising, and the rest of the science fiction universe. Some people are only here for the Internet spaceships.


If all that would be there too, more people would be coming... my opinion.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Irya Boone
The Scope
#749 - 2012-08-05 14:21:45 UTC
ok ... ok ok ....
I can't stop asking my self why people don't want to create awesome things and complains when some have balls to do it

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Ghazu
#750 - 2012-08-05 14:24:19 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Irya Boone wrote:
the blog?


Has been cancelled, supressed, forbidden, thrown down the sink... you name it. The new WiS policy is this:

CCP Bayesian wrote:
Sorry for the radio silence for the past couple of weeks, I've been variously ill, spraining ankles and on holiday.

I've got bad news about the devblog we promised. It's been swallowed by the black hole of corporateness and won't be seeing the light of day for the foreseeable future. The team have been as vocal as we can about the merits of putting it out but to no avail. We're continuing to try and work out a way of showing you work we're proud of and think you will like but for now our hands are completely tied.


CCP Bayesian wrote:
Keep on being vocal about what you want to see happening in EVE.

We're not stopping work on anything, just not allowed to talk as openly as we have been and would like to about what we have been working on. I appreciate that's frustrating to everyone but we are going to continue working with everyone here at CCP to get something out there that shows you what we've been up to. It's important to me and the rest of Team Avatar too because we are proud of our work, think it's cool and want you guys to see it to demonstrate that we aren't all mouth and no trousers.


This evidences that WiS is not getting any production slot in the next 18 months, and that puts the earliest release date of WiS in 2015, assuming that 12 months were enough to develop it.

Draw your own conclussions.


uhhhhhh barbie lover tears best tears?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#751 - 2012-08-05 14:36:34 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
ok ... ok ok ....
I can't stop asking my self why people don't want to create awesome things and complains when some have balls to do it


As I already stated elsewhere, if CCP won't open the door, there is no reason why the players should agree with that, specially provided that the CQ is a client side feature.

Also i pointed that CCP could gather a lot of free work from modders if they were willing to, and for a fraction of what would take them to do it in-house.

"Will" is the key word.

Will and determination.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Ghazu
#752 - 2012-08-05 15:00:49 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Irya Boone wrote:
ok ... ok ok ....
I can't stop asking my self why people don't want to create awesome things and complains when some have balls to do it


As I already stated elsewhere, if CCP won't open the door, there is no reason why the players should agree with that, specially provided that the CQ is a client side feature.

Also i pointed that CCP could gather a lot of free work from modders if they were willing to, and for a fraction of what would take them to do it in-house.

"Will" is the key word.

Will and determination.


I think you are confused. The biggest challenge in developing wis is conceptualizing meaningful gameplay (which TA is working on through prototyping), and not the lack of variety in pants. comprende?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#753 - 2012-08-05 15:09:59 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
I think you are confused. The biggest challenge in developing wis is conceptualizing meaningful gameplay (which TA is working on through prototyping), and not the lack of variety in pants. comprende?


Yes and no... in my opinion. CCP was off to a great start with the CQs... going from there shouldn't be too hard. I think nobody would complain if things like that RTS in bars would be implemented at a later time... why not start with station interiors, where avatars can meet face to face as a next step?

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Ghazu
#754 - 2012-08-05 15:37:34 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
I think you are confused. The biggest challenge in developing wis is conceptualizing meaningful gameplay (which TA is working on through prototyping), and not the lack of variety in pants. comprende?


Yes and no... in my opinion. CCP was off to a great start with the CQs... going from there shouldn't be too hard. I think nobody would complain if things like that RTS in bars would be implemented at a later time... why not start with station interiors, where avatars can meet face to face as a next step?


I think we've got that covered already.

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
hey guys you want some cheese with all that whine?
TA is working on wis, nothing has changed except for the delay of the devblog.
I don't know what the big deal is, don't tell me you've never dealt with arbitrary "corporate" or "management" crap because "it's just how things work" IRL.

They could just put out something quick and dirty, like a useless room where dressed up avatars can emote each other, but fortunately that is not the CCP way. I imagine when it is released with good content and gameplay, we will all be shocked and awed like when we first started playing EVE, at least that is what I've come to expect from CCP.


^^THIS. I mean the point is, they DID just put out a dirty useless room. It was crap. The players saw right throught it. CCP learned a lesson, and seems hellbent on NOT making this same mistake twice. EVE players are demanding. We expect meaningful interaction, not simply an emote platform. From what we saw at the summit this is very much the goal, even if it means later rather than sooner. If they put out establishments too hastily, and fall short of expectations like they did with Incarna, I kinda feel its game over. They'll never invest money in it again after that. CCP is probably going to play their cards close to their chest for a while and feel free to experiment a little until they find that intersection between meaningful and achievable.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#755 - 2012-08-05 16:48:04 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Irya Boone wrote:
ok ... ok ok ....
I can't stop asking my self why people don't want to create awesome things and complains when some have balls to do it


As I already stated elsewhere, if CCP won't open the door, there is no reason why the players should agree with that, specially provided that the CQ is a client side feature.

Also i pointed that CCP could gather a lot of free work from modders if they were willing to, and for a fraction of what would take them to do it in-house.

"Will" is the key word.

Will and determination.


I think you are confused. The biggest challenge in developing wis is conceptualizing meaningful gameplay (which TA is working on through prototyping), and not the lack of variety in pants. comprende?


"Meaningful gameplay" according to whom? I don't plan to have Ishtanchuk killed anytime, can you guess how thrilled I feel about Team Avatar developing X different ways to kill each other?

One of my objections to Team Avatar's work is that nobody has ever asked players what do we want from WiS. CCP is assuming that as some players love to pod each other, then that's what WiS should be about. Bear in mind that I already envisioned that as a function for "drone clones", but certainly it should not be the first and only way to leave the CQ.

In that sense, CCP's stubborn refusal to allow multiple players to be in a CQ is quite staggering -looks like they are suffering PTSD about anything that smells of Incarna and have feverish nightmares about crowds with pitchforks and torches besieging their HQ if they as much as allow two players to share a CQ just to chat. I mean, it should be obvious that the world will not end if I can bring a friend to my CQ and display a recruitment video on the screen (with some elementary playback options -pause, FFW, RWD, nothing too sophisticate). I am not even asking about -gedaws- having a specific room with chairs and a big screen so I can deliver a corporate speech. No, nothing like that, God forbid it, would not be "meaningful gameplay" as we as a species are completely fixated with shiny metal ships and don't care at all about stuff that looks like people... Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#756 - 2012-08-05 16:48:23 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
I think you are confused. The biggest challenge in developing wis is conceptualizing meaningful gameplay (which TA is working on through prototyping), and not the lack of variety in pants. comprende?

Team Avatar is also going to be inevitably hampered by the need to essentially design WiS backwards - they already have art assets etc in place and have now got to find a way to assemble gameplay around them, rather than having a blank sheet to work on.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#757 - 2012-08-05 17:01:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
"Meaningful gameplay" according to whom? I don't plan to have Ishtanchuk killed anytime, can you guess how thrilled I feel about Team Avatar developing X different ways to kill each other?

One of my objections to Team Avatar's work is that nobody has ever asked players what do we want from WiS. CCP is assuming that as some players love to pod each other, then that's what WiS should be about. Bear in mind that I already envisioned that as a function for "drone clones", but certainly it should not be the first and only way to leave the CQ.

In that sense, CCP's stubborn refusal to allow multiple players to be in a CQ is quite staggering -looks like they are suffering PTSD about anything that smells of Incarna and have feverish nightmares about crowds with pitchforks and torches besieging their HQ if they as much as allow two players to share a CQ just to chat. I mean, it should be obvious that the world will not end if I can bring a friend to my CQ and display a recruitment video on the screen (with some elementary playback options -pause, FFW, RWD, nothing too sophisticate). I am not even asking about -gedaws- having a specific room with chairs and a big screen so I can deliver a corporate speech. No, nothing like that, God forbid it, would not be "meaningful gameplay" as we as a species are completely fixated with shiny metal ships and don't care at all about stuff that looks like people... Roll

Do you have actual citations for the bits I emboldened or are you making them up?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Ghazu
#758 - 2012-08-05 17:06:59 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Irya Boone wrote:
ok ... ok ok ....
I can't stop asking my self why people don't want to create awesome things and complains when some have balls to do it


As I already stated elsewhere, if CCP won't open the door, there is no reason why the players should agree with that, specially provided that the CQ is a client side feature.

Also i pointed that CCP could gather a lot of free work from modders if they were willing to, and for a fraction of what would take them to do it in-house.

"Will" is the key word.

Will and determination.


I think you are confused. The biggest challenge in developing wis is conceptualizing meaningful gameplay (which TA is working on through prototyping), and not the lack of variety in pants. comprende?


"Meaningful gameplay" according to whom? I don't plan to have Ishtanchuk killed anytime, can you guess how thrilled I feel about Team Avatar developing X different ways to kill each other?

One of my objections to Team Avatar's work is that nobody has ever asked players what do we want from WiS. CCP is assuming that as some players love to pod each other, then that's what WiS should be about. Bear in mind that I already envisioned that as a function for "drone clones", but certainly it should not be the first and only way to leave the CQ.

In that sense, CCP's stubborn refusal to allow multiple players to be in a CQ is quite staggering -looks like they are suffering PTSD about anything that smells of Incarna and have feverish nightmares about crowds with pitchforks and torches besieging their HQ if they as much as allow two players to share a CQ just to chat. I mean, it should be obvious that the world will not end if I can bring a friend to my CQ and display a recruitment video on the screen (with some elementary playback options -pause, FFW, RWD, nothing too sophisticate). I am not even asking about -gedaws- having a specific room with chairs and a big screen so I can deliver a corporate speech. No, nothing like that, God forbid it, would not be "meaningful gameplay" as we as a species are completely fixated with shiny metal ships and don't care at all about stuff that looks like people... Roll


Again I think you are confusing what "we" want with what you personally want. Let's have a show of hands, who wants to shoot a goon in some hallway at jita 4-4, nobody?
I mean, it should be obvious that the world will not end if Instachuck does not get what he wants.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#759 - 2012-08-05 17:33:26 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
"Meaningful gameplay" according to whom? I don't plan to have Ishtanchuk killed anytime, can you guess how thrilled I feel about Team Avatar developing X different ways to kill each other?

One of my objections to Team Avatar's work is that nobody has ever asked players what do we want from WiS. CCP is assuming that as some players love to pod each other, then that's what WiS should be about. Bear in mind that I already envisioned that as a function for "drone clones", but certainly it should not be the first and only way to leave the CQ.

In that sense, CCP's stubborn refusal to allow multiple players to be in a CQ is quite staggering -looks like they are suffering PTSD about anything that smells of Incarna and have feverish nightmares about crowds with pitchforks and torches besieging their HQ if they as much as allow two players to share a CQ just to chat. I mean, it should be obvious that the world will not end if I can bring a friend to my CQ and display a recruitment video on the screen (with some elementary playback options -pause, FFW, RWD, nothing too sophisticate). I am not even asking about -gedaws- having a specific room with chairs and a big screen so I can deliver a corporate speech. No, nothing like that, God forbid it, would not be "meaningful gameplay" as we as a species are completely fixated with shiny metal ships and don't care at all about stuff that looks like people... Roll

Do you have actual citations for the bits I emboldened or are you making them up?


Those are statements about what CCP is doing and not doing, as they talk little and commit nothing.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#760 - 2012-08-05 17:45:42 UTC
I am going to go out on a limb and say that upper management for CCP is looking at the "big" picture.

No, I am not talking about the Eve gaming universe. I am referring to the whole online gaming genre in general.

While perusing through Yahoo, I noted over the past week various headlines involving online gaming. World of Warcraft lost another chunk of subscribers. Star Wars: The Old Republic is going freeware in November with various extras in the game being available through a real life bought token item. Electronic Arts is suing Zynga (or however it is spelled) for mimicking their Sims game...

...all avatar based games with a touch of vanity available items for purchase.

So if you are the upper management for CCP and see that the whole genre is dipping due to various reasons (including a poor world economy), then after last year's failed attempt at stepping into this segment of gaming, would you honestly invest capital into that direction? Or would you stay with what Eve has always been known for and hope your subscription based game still has legs in a gaming world that looks for the quick and easy money before fading into obscurity within a few years?