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^this. for years goons have done everything possible to - in their own words - ruin everyone else's game. now the largest, richest, most space-controlling, economy-rigging alliance in the game has bit off more than they can chew, and you come to their rescue? WTF?

WHY is everyone dogpiling onto a wardec a bad thing? you're saying it's ok to be the bully and attack, but not to gang up and say "fu" and defend?

yeah, i'm mad.

Personally I hoped CCP was serious when introducing a war themed expansion and revamping the war declaration mechanic. For as long as I have been playing, the vast majority of high sec wars I have observed have resulted in one sided ganking, players in the decced corporation leaving, repeated extortion of ISK and, not uncommonly, players leaving the game altogether, disgusted. War declarations has mainly been a vehicle for griefing, usually employed by more experienced, well trained pilots against newer players and corporations into other aspects of the game than PvP.

A revamped system for high sec wars would ideally promote more fighting, better fights and that the majority of wars end up with kill reports posted on both sides, unlike today. That – at least – would have been my goals for such a revamp. Better fights would not only result in more explosions and thus a more healthy economy, but also increase the fun, decrease risk aversion, bond people together and increase the retainment rate of new players. Because wars against relatively new corporations is also a big part of the famous EVE learning cliff and part of the reason people opt out of EVE.

So why can’t they just HTFU like the rest of us? Well, truth to be told, attitudes changes and is also to some extent learned. I would have quit EVE back in 2008, if it wasn’t for the fact that I got involved in a corporation that was led by experienced veterans who not only taught me to fight but changed my attitudes as well. I bet those of us that have played a while share that experience. But many of those that no longer play never got the chance. They were never exposed to an environment that transformed their attitudes from mainstream games to one more appropriate for the unique EVE experience. Rather, many got griefed right out of the game before even getting a chance to adopt.

This is why the high sec war declaration mechanic is – or rather should have been – of such a crucial importance to EVE. However, I fear CCP Soundwave and most/all of the CSM are just too engrossed in the realities of cut throat nullsec conflict like the veteran players they are to really care all that much. Plainly spoken – they have forgotten what it was like.
One sided conflicts where you are outnumbered, outskilled, outgunned and outled isn’t fun and doesn’t result in bonding and a sense of achievement. It’s an iron boot flattening the flower that is trying to break through to the surface. I’ll let CCP Soundwave play the role of the Iron Boot here:

“Why would I want to balance a fight? That's never really been the goal in EVE… That's a fact of life in EVE and we're not likely to change that direction anytime soon.”

This is of course entirely true, but you don’t strap some MILES gear on a recruit and push him into a training area filled with veteran soldiers armed with machineguns and expect him to learn anything other from the experience than a sense of hopelessness. Sadly, this seems to be the attitude in CCPs game design department. Like veteran soldiers harassing the noobs instead of laying the foundation for future formidable fighting men and women.

One sided conflicts where you are outnumbered, outskilled, outgunned and outled isn’t fun and doesn’t result in bonding and a sense of achievement. It’s an iron boot flattening the flower that is trying to break through to the surface. I’ll let CCP Soundwave play the role of the Iron Boot here:

“Why would I want to balance a fight? That's never really been the goal in EVE… That's a fact of life in EVE and we're not likely to change that direction anytime soon.”

This is of course entirely true, but you don’t strap some MILES gear on a recruit and push him into a training area filled with veteran soldiers armed with machineguns and expect him to learn anything other from the experience than a sense of hopelessness. Sadly, this seems to be the attitude in CCPs game design department. Like veteran soldiers harassing the noobs instead of laying the foundation for future formidable fighting men and women.
^
Best point yet made about CCP's attitude.



this link explains a bit:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-27-ccp-players-attempt-to-destroy-eve-online-economy-is-f-ing-brilliant



Honestly,

With the price of fuel where it is, the price of drakes where they are, Perma-Hulkageddon, OTEC, and etc... No moon nerf in site, the game itself is becoming boring. The Mittani's endgame is the end of our game. He's said so before.

The war dec nerf happened almost reflexively. The moon nerf is gonna happen on ?/?/?.

in 6 mos we'll know if the Mittani wins. He's not playing against you. He's playing against ccp. Even if they fix the damage he's about to do to the game, my faith in CCP will be permanently shaken.

All good things come to an end AND SAND WITHOUT A BOX IS JUST A PILE.

I won't go that far man. The UI for our inventory is still a steaming pile of useless junk. Granted there is a patch coming soon for that abomination and from what I'm hearing it is still worthless after the new fixes. I will be checking them out shortly on SiSi, but in the meantime I don't believe anything from most of the CCP Employees as most of it is dribble to make us continue to pay for broken mechanics. Hell Soundwave himself said that that abomination would be patched every week on Tuesday until it was fixed and how long did that last????????????? Now we have to wait multiple weeks/months/years to get this horrible UI to work properly.

Now on to the war dec changes; yes the change was needed to the ally system. It was ridiculous if you got war dec'd to have unlimited allies come to the defenders aid for free. This completely broke the purpose of a lot of guys out there working as Mercs in this game. If people can't see that then they truly need to pull their heads out of their asses because they are stuck on stupid.

If you can not defend yourself then do something about it. Hmmmmmmm you could train up some combat skills to defend yourself, you could add a new security division to your corp (pvp) to fight and defend yourselves, you can hire Mercs to fight your battles for you. There are a lot of options you can do but bringing in unlimited allies waqs not only an oversight it outright broke war decs.

One last thing one of the earlier guys mentioned. A treaty system would be awesome and from Soundwaves lil snicker or whatever it was it sounds they may be looking into a system like that and if so that would be an incredible feature to implement. However!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get the inventory UI fixed before going into a ton of new code that will without a doubt have issues if thrown together like the horrible UI we are forced to deal with now.

This is slightly unclear, can you not also put the date and/or the time left bracketed? Something like



I'm not sure what it is about it that stops it being crystal clear, but it's confused me once (probably because the "next time the clock says xx:xx" isn't said anywhere) and I get asked it a lot by corpies.

There was a column entitled "can fight" where each war recieved a yes/no responce.

Well wanting a date as well as a time ties into the can fight yes/no part, If i log in and its say 15:00 and the war states its ending at 14:30, can i assume that is in 23.5 hrs and not 0.5 hrs ago?
The previous war screen kept wars on there after they had ended, so i suppose i am used to that, does the new system remove wars from the corp screen as soon as hostilities cease? if so i suppose a date is not required.

Setting the 2 week limit on allies if a good idea and fixes the main whine from mercs. But the cost of such allies should be left for them to decide and not for CCP to set a new isk sink. Having CCP setting up costs for allies runs contrary to the initial arguments for the new war dec system and and runs contrary to the sandbox idea as well.

Hi ... just some thoughts ...

1) What is the difference between a mercenary and an ally? There will always be folks interested in joining some wars just to get fights in empire without charging anything or having to make a war dec. They are free mercenaries essentially ... and there is no way to prevent this ... how can you encourage a "mercenary" marketplace when some folks will fight for free?

2) Why is it a broken mechanic to allow a defender to have an unlimited number of allies? Aggressors almost always choose situations in which they have a substantial advantage ... they don't usually war dec otherwise ... they then extort isk or attempt to engage the defender typically again only in situations with beneficial odds. It's the whole pvp game ... attempting maneuver your fleet/gang/ship into a situation against your opponent where you have a decided advantage before you engage. Almost every even fight I have seen has been an accident. By removing the ability to employ/acquire substantial help the situation has been returned to one in which the aggressor always has the advantage. Large groups can go back to griefing and extorting small ones in empire or elsewhere with impunity.

Keep in mind that there is no point to a war dec for combat anywhere except in empire. In null sec or 0.0 folks can engage as they like when they like. So when a large 0.0 alliance becomes the aggressor in a war dec the ONLY purpose is to allow it to engage targets in empire without concord intervention.

As far as I am concerned an aggressor gets what it deserves if a defender acquires enough allies to pose a threat to the aggressor.

What is the problem with this? Apparently there is no mechanism to end a war dec that is declared mutual without surrender terms being accepted (is that correct ... other than disbanding the aggressor alliance/corp and reforming that is ...) .If this is a problem ... perhaps this suggestion could be a solution ... if an aggressor gets in a situation where they feel they have gotten in over their heads then there should be a mechanism for a concord mediated surrender in which a surrender offer must be accepted within a specified period of time (perhaps 2 weeks?). This would allow lots of fighting to occur on a more even basis until the surrender by the aggressor is accepted.

If there is a concern that corporations can get free pvp just by being allies then there should be a 25 million isk fee - or perhaps half of a war dec cost ... to register an ally with concord. If you are hiring mercenaries then this fee would be part of the payment. However, it should not scale up as the number of allies increases ... that is just another broken mechanic trying to heavily favour the aggressor in such conflicts.

In conclusion ... I think there are issues with war decs that need to be addressed ... but I don't think the solution currently being implemented by CCP makes much sense except to swing the balance in war decs back to favouring large aggressive organizations.

Why not just allow allies such that the total number of players in the defender's coalition = number of people in the attacking alliance/corp?

That's been suggested many times, the only reason against it seems to be that Eve isn't fair.