EVE General Discussion

Take my love take my land take me where I cannot stand, I don't care I'm still free they can't take the sky from me...Your post does not do any justice to the title.

Why did you then choose only those minority groups from the extreme ends, hisec miners and hisec gankers? Contrary to the common delusions, vast majority of EVE players are pretty normal guys who can make a difference between a game and die Endlösung.

As can be seen, hisec miners come and go, their EVE experience is as shallow as it is to the professional gankers. The players who stay like the long-term challenge of EVE, not the grind or griefing aspects.




Once again, false expectations created by other games ruined their EVE experience. Me and my RL friends who have tried EVE absolutely loved it (two of them valued their RL more, one loves the game but it seems to be too complicated for him) and we've never even heard the word "griefing" before.

If you really get the core idea of EVE, you understand that there is no griefing. Getting blown up and blowing things up is natural for a real MMO focused on intergalactic spaceship violence. "Griefing" implies that one party doesn't understand the nature of the game and becomes sad for losing virtual pixels, and the other party enjoys these tears. Why not suck the loss up like a man, accept it's a part of the game, most often your own mistake and change your operation model to avoid such losses in the future?

This continuous cycle of adaptation is the true lure of EVE, it's challenge and the thing that attracts the core playerbase. People create the evolving world, and people create ways to deal with it. AI can't yet offer this much complexity.



http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8374664 from my first day. (I did a trial in 2009, had to put it on hold due to work) My first thought was "wtf just happened, there was nobody" :D and so I learned about cloaking devices. I was mad, but instead of hiding under my bed to cry, I wanted revenge, and I had to know what to do to avoid that until I grew enough to get my revenge.

Mining in a cruiser for a week is a failure to think.



Do they work hard in life just to get on vacations? I prefer to enjoy my work as well.



I'm not against buffing barge stats. 50% more HP spread across hull, armor and shields, one more low slot. Why not? They already have drones, I find that quite enough for defense.

MST3K!!! Took a minute to realize.



OK this degradation of the player base... is it this game in particular, or MMOs in general or...


society?


It's rough out there. Joblessness, tyranny, wars, and in the USA, more women are fatter than ever.

(I had to put something on the end of that but statistically it is true)


Collapsing societies breed assholes. Period.

Now, what does "CCP" mean? It means "Crowd Control Productions". And it just might be a service to the world when internet space pixels are being destroyed instead of cars being keyed, dogs being poisoned, and houses being burned down. Sometimes I wonder if it was planned (and I have the patent for the deluxe grounding strap made for tin foil hats).

Whatever the case, it's global. The world sucks. it's full of people. People play games. They are going to makes those games suck. They at least make it interesting.

Chances are, everybody could enjoy the game if they would stop taking themselves too darned seriously. And I do mean EVERYBODY.

In total contrast to all those threads they're replying to? Each and every whine thread is unique and post worthy

I know you do not think so but your responses actually prove my points.

"Why did you then choose only those minority groups from the extreme ends, hisec miners and hisec gankers?"
Because I explained that in the post. Those are the ones that stick around for good. Most of the others do not. Eve is tiny compared to other MMO's. Some of them would close their doors if they had subscription numbers as low as Eve's.

"Once again, false expectations created by other games ruined their EVE experience."
I disagree. Other MMO's have nothing to do with it. If there were no other MMO's on the planet I seriously doubt Eve's subscription numbers would improve. What do you think would happen to them if there was another Eve-like MMO on the market that didn't cater to asshattery? Eve's limited success boils down to the fact that they have no real competition. Internet spaceships is a lot of fun if you can get past the griefing. Many people can't. Find me another MMO like Eve that isn't run by a company that is borderline insane (please!).

"If you really get the core idea of EVE, you understand that there is no griefing."
That is the biggest design flaw of the entire game if you care at all about your income. A defensless new miner getting popped by a veteran in a disposable ship for lulz is not griefing? Maybe not by CCP's standards but pretty much the rest of the MMO world (devs and players alike) disagree.

""Griefing" implies that one party doesn't understand the nature of the game and becomes sad for losing virtual pixels, and the other party enjoys these tears."
You said it. Do you mean this doesn't happen? I've seen it since 2003.

"Why not suck the loss up like a man, accept it's a part of the game, most often your own mistake and change your operation model to avoid such losses in the future?"
I'll use a term from the pro-griefing crowd to explain why. "It is just a game". Most people don't consider being killed repeatedly or having to do research on setups that won't keep them alive anyway much fun. Even a 32k EHP tanked Hulk setup won't keep you alive long enough to run away if the ganker has a partner. This isn't rocket surgery.

"This continuous cycle of adaptation is the true lure of EVE, it's challenge and the thing that attracts the core playerbase. People create the evolving world, and people create ways to deal with it. AI can't yet offer this much complexity."
Here we agree... to a point. PvE could provide those things if it weren't tacked on as an afterthought. A dev once explained how the normal NPC AI works in a post back when Sleepers were being added to the game. It boiled down to "they look for something to shoot and then shoot it until it's dead or they're dead." Sleepers are better but unfortunately you have to expose yourself to WH space to even see them. Incursions are meh and remind me of raiding in other MMO's. There's always a guy in charge that will lose his ever-loving mind over the slightest thing (real or imaginary). There are no real options for the things you mentioned for people that aren't interested in PvP. CCP knows this so they try to trick or force those people into situations that require them to PvP (low/null sec and WH space). This will fail every time because nobody can force anyone to play a game that they do not think is fun. Well.. maybe in China but they have their own server.

"http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8374664 from my first day. (I did a trial in 2009, had to put it on hold due to work) My first thought was "wtf just happened, there was nobody" :D and so I learned about cloaking devices. I was mad, but instead of hiding under my bed to cry, I wanted revenge, and I had to know what to do to avoid that until I grew enough to get my revenge."
Exactly my point. You stayed. Most people don't.

"Mining in a cruiser for a week is a failure to think."
In 2003 I mined for 3 weeks in a Bestower to buy a Thorax. Man, you guys have it easy these days.

"Do they work hard in life just to get on vacations? I prefer to enjoy my work as well."
Yes but you are missing the point. Eve is a game played for enjoyment and therefore matches up to the vacation part, not the work part. Would most people take a vacation from their RL jobs to do something that isn't fun?

"I'm not against buffing barge stats. 50% more HP spread across hull, armor and shields, one more low slot. Why not? They already have drones, I find that quite enough for defense."
Drones are no defense when you are dead before they can reach their target. The griefers have all the advantages. If a miner tries to get proactive about his own defense then he's the one getting the visit from CONCORD. Miners can't formulate an attack that involves CONCORD. Griefers can.

When a plan to kill someone includes the very entity meant to punish it then at best that system is broken and at worst is being explioted.

+1 to learning how to fit a hulk properly.

eve is a game where information matters

if you can't be bothered to gather basic information you will lose, repeatedly and painfully

"having to do research" is a basic feature of the game and if it's too hard for you might i suggest a nice game of tic-tac-toe

True. Some more people feebly trickle in each year I'm sure. Maybe I should have said "improve significantly".

You said it. Actually I've recently found a game that reminds me a lot of Eve but doesn't cater to asshats. It's called Perpetuum Online. It isn't internet spaceships but it's still quite fun. I've been playing the crap out of it lately.

That would depend on your viewpoint but I understand what you mean.

Sounds cool, thanks a lo-ZzzzzZzzZzzzzzzz