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New inventory system > honest opinion and feedback.

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Aerich e'Kieron
Peace.Keepers
Federation Front Line
#141 - 2012-05-23 16:09:55 UTC
There needs to be a seperate window for items and containers, a window for ships, and a window for your ship's cargo and bays. All with relevant buttons. Three different things isn't that hard to wrap your damn head around. It doesn't need to be one window. Separating these three things is the most intuitive way to go about it.

BTW, everyone is using the option to merge ships/items on the station menu precisely for this. Aside from the fact that more windows in this case is easier to manage.
Babel Matrix
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2012-05-23 16:13:33 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
I like the new inventory system , but it needs some modifications.

A) Need to include ALL material form the "Assets" tab.
UInv should be just that, not much unified of all assets are not listed in one window.

B) WINDOWS (OLD v New)
Very easy solution here. The problem is you want the UInv window to do it all, not necessary.
1 - Keep all the same ways of opening inventory from before (Cargo, Cans, Hangars) Open and add stuff just as before.
2 - Make the Unified Inventory Window its own separate function. Whatever you to in the other windows, is reflected in the unified inventory if you want to open it.
3 - Basically, making the old windows the portals, and the UI system the hub for centralized auditing / moving.

C) Optimize ship cargo.
Now it takes longer just to view current ship cargo since it needs to load ALL my inventory.

Ships in Hangar
Duble click use to open cargo, now it activates ship and makes ship disappear.
Fix both of these. At least make it so not make the ship disappear when I activate it,


Wouldn't Solution A only compound the issue of lag in the new system? I figured that's why they kept it separate, and (at least for now) the window only deals in what's immediately in your system. I'm OK with the current degree of inclusion, and frankly think they may need to continue shaving off portions of the system, (such as POS management, if the current POS owners aren't satisfied with the upcoming changes.)

I like B, though I think it would be better implemented through a simple UI switch. Having both loaded doesn't improve lag issues, having an extra button on top of the old ones is just ugly, and having the unified window not load until called may just as well be implemented by toggable UI settings.

I concur with C, as a hoarder sitting on a ton of crap at any of my home bases. As I suggested before, perhaps not having the hold actually load until called?

That ship hangar thing really needs to be addressed, sounds awful, (never experienced it, thank God.)
Madner Kami
Durendal Ascending
#143 - 2012-05-23 16:15:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Madner Kami
Babel Matrix wrote:
Granted, to support whatever troubles you might be experiencing, I'm speaking as someone who, since the new system was in place, has only shot rats, done PI export/import and can-mines. In those capacities, I love the new system. Perhaps I'm not getting what you mean by limited space?


Your task is to move an item-stack from a cargo can into a corp hangar:

Disclaimer: Since I lack a picture of the old system, I had to emulate it, but I'm certain you recall still how it exactly looked like and ignore the rudimentary MSPainting...

Old: http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/7259/previously.png

New: http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3988/andnow.png

Now tell me, which UI is more suited to this daily task?

Now let's increase the difficulty of the task. Say you want to move an item-stack from the corp hangar to the can you just emptied and an item from the same hangar into the Orca's cargo bay. Which one handles the task more sensible and less click intensive?

The new UI forces you to have things open which you do not need all the time and you have no way of filtering those things down to what you need. Moreso, did you notice which corp hangar I meant? No? Check again, it is pretty obvious which corp hangar I meant in the old system. In the new system, you have to thoroughly check which corp hangar you actually wanted to drop stuff in, forcing clicks, forcing checks, adding time to the task (both realtime and processor-time because of loading issues). This is even more "fun" when you have silos to fill or more then 1 corp hangar at your POS.

Conversely the new system also forces you to not have info immediatly available which you had available all the time previously or, as the only alternative, ignite a click-fest with each session change, eating away your time (consult Tippia's blogpost for that matter or in regard to the two pics: What's in the Orca's cargohold on the new UI? I can see the contents of the corp hangar, the can and the orca all at once with the old system, by clicking 3, maybe 4 times, after setting it up one time. To achieve the same with the new system, I have to scroll several times, guess which can/corp hangar is actually the one I wanted to look into, shift-click several times. It's menial, adding time-consumption needlessly and this after each session-change).
Babel Matrix
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2012-05-23 16:19:26 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Babel Matrix wrote:
If you think of the tabs on the left as tabs used to be on the top of a bar, and if Shift+Click for a new window actually works, we're basically running at the same speed as before for looting, no? Aside from time to adapt to a new system, are we really suffering any delays on that part?

We're not running at the same speed.

Old System:
- Open one loot can, position it where you want it, any time you have no loot can open and you then open one, it moves to that position.
- Open one loot can, open a second and put it into the tab with the first. All subsequent loot cans open in the tabbed window.
- Spamming "Loot All" closes a tab and puts the focus on the next loot tab.

New System:
- Open loot can into the same window as your cargohold.
- Cannot spam "Loot All" because after pressing the button focus shifts to your cargohold.

Result:
- Loss of functionality.


Oh man, you just suggested an awesome change: loot all buttons on the sidebar! Instead of organizing windows to make sure the Loot All works fine, you just click up in a line on all the cargo containers you're working with using a small button on the far right of each can in the unified window. The only loss at this point would be that, instead of spam-clicking in one spot, you do it in a line down or up the list of opened cargo containers. Trading that for an otherwise sweet UI upgrade is more than fair, presuming they fix all the other issues.
Leetha Layne
#145 - 2012-05-23 16:20:28 UTC
The roll-out was less than considerate. But having used it on SISI for a while I got to like it and I suspect that will be the case for most on TQ.

On the other hand some folks flat out do not like learning, including some of our botting fellows.

All in all I find it sad some folks get so worked up over a computer space game.
Babel Matrix
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2012-05-23 16:22:47 UTC
Madner Kami wrote:
Babel Matrix wrote:
Granted, to support whatever troubles you might be experiencing, I'm speaking as someone who, since the new system was in place, has only shot rats, done PI export/import and can-mines. In those capacities, I love the new system. Perhaps I'm not getting what you mean by limited space?


Your task is to move an item-stack from a cargo can into a corp hangar:

Disclaimer: Since I lack a picture of the old system, I had to emulate it, but I'm certain you recall still how it exactly looked like and ignore the rudimentary MSPainting...

Old: http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/7259/previously.png

New: http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3988/andnow.png

Now tell me, which UI is more suited to this daily task?

Now let's increase the difficulty of the task. Say you want to move an item-stack from the corp hangar to the can you just emptied and an item from the same hangar into the Orca's cargo bay. Which one handles the task more sensible and less click intensive?


Which is why I totally support the old system... for POS management. I think a hybrid system is the closest we should come to rolling back this evolution, though, as the new system does benefit several of us even BEFORE what will hopefully be a good suite of bug fixes.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#147 - 2012-05-23 16:23:27 UTC
Babel Matrix wrote:
Oh man, you just suggested an awesome change: loot all buttons on the sidebar! Instead of organizing windows to make sure the Loot All works fine, you just click up in a line on all the cargo containers you're working with using a small button on the far right of each can in the unified window. The only loss at this point would be that, instead of spam-clicking in one spot, you do it in a line down or up the list of opened cargo containers. Trading that for an otherwise sweet UI upgrade is more than fair, presuming they fix all the other issues.

I really don't give a **** how it gets done so long as I can do it with the same ease that it was done before this change.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Benf Hawlr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2012-05-23 16:25:46 UTC
The new inventory will be acceptable when the layout remains the same after redock, and wrecks load instantly in their own window. Having to pause every time i open a wreck in space is already one of those small slow annoyances that adds up to me losing interest in the game. Looting wrecks is even more tedious, boring and dangerous than it used to be, because i have to stop... and wait.... for the f'ing inventory window to load.
I'm pretty sure that the first time somebody steals my shiny because it took that extra second to pointlessly load my entire inventory, I will head to the website and turn off auto pay on my subscription.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#149 - 2012-05-23 16:28:46 UTC
I ******* HATE the inventory system. For me it adds absolutely ZERO functionality, slows down EVERYTHING I do in Eve and sucks balls. There ONE feature I like about it is the pricing for stuff. Other than that Ive been playing with it for an entire day and the first thing I did with it is break it within 5 mins, windows dont stay where they are supposed to and when your managing multiple clients in real time its a ******* PITA entirely. Every session change something different happens on EACH client that arent the same. Theres absolutely no persistance in any of the windows what so ever.

I despise this change and have been fuming about it literally since the patch hit.


Give me multiple windows back thanx. I literally CANT play effectively like this at all. Everything takes way more time and has saved me nothing.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2012-05-23 16:29:46 UTC

I liked having wrecks and cans open up in a separate window location which I had placed right below my Cargohold window to allow selective looting. I also had my Drone Bay window open up in a different location as well. When in station, I have ships and items hangars merged with station services so I don't need those in the inventory window.

I noticed my active ship no longer shows up in the ships hangar which is where I used to access Cargohold and Drone Bay. Also when r-click on active ship in docking bay, there's no option to open Drone Bay.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Arra Lith
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#151 - 2012-05-23 16:32:37 UTC
Could you add an option "open containers in new window"? It would open all inventory windows as new window on default, without need to hold SHIFT all the time. You can replace current option "merge items and ship hangar windows" as it has no longer any purpose.
It would solve much problems with this new inventory system.

Managing POSes now is pain. Opening silo closes corp hangar window and vice versa. Putting material to correct silo takes a while now...
Cord Binchiette
Kzinti Confederation
#152 - 2012-05-23 17:08:34 UTC
Why does it take so long to transfer items from a ships cargo bay to a station item hangar? Are you guys testing by transferring 1 or 2 items? Try transferring 200 items from a noctis to 700+ items in a station hangar. Seriously. Then try stacking all the items in that station hangar.

(on a side note: why do salvaged items stack automatically, but nothing else does?)

I suggest you put on a pot of coffee when you try this because you'll have plenty of time. I think I could write every item down on index cards and sort them by hand faster.

Really, if you don't want us looting wrecks, why just not remove them? It would save us the aggravation of dealing with this. Because it's not fun playing anymore.
Breezly Brewin
Vril Metaphysics Society
#153 - 2012-05-23 17:16:59 UTC
this update sucks because of the inventory UI. you can candy coat it all you want, fumbling with inventory takes longer now.Cry

2 step processes have been exchanged for a prettier, sleeker ui and 2 extra steps.

i've enjoyed my year of eve and still like the game but this "improvement" is a mis-gnomer.
Acwron
Meet The Fockers
#154 - 2012-05-23 17:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Acwron
Total crap. 100% crap.

Estimated prices are crap. Check Jita prices and you'll see.

Opening new windows is a pain. When I access other ship's corp hangar, always opens the 1st division even I last accessed 7th division.

You have to click the damn shift all the time to properly open in a new godamn window.

If you dock and undock, you're screwed, every window is lost.

If you dock in a POD, you can't see corporate hangar.

On the Orca, there's no more ore hold option when you right click the capacitor, same goes for Rorqual.

If you access some other ship's corp hangar and you warp away, instead of disappearing that window, you have your own corp hangar now, which you have already opened in another window and it's FREAKING confusing.

Get rid of this SHITE and get back the old one. It was working perfectly fine. So much wasted time now, too many godamn clicks to make it work in an acceptable manner.

HONESTLY, you couldn't possibly make something worse than this. On a second thought maybe I underestimate you guys. Maybe you can do worse. Let's see ^^

I'm sure all this **** can be fixed but why do you guys release on live server unfinished work is a mystery to me.
CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
#155 - 2012-05-23 17:24:06 UTC  |  Edited by: CARB0N FIBER
Babel Matrix wrote:
CARB0N FIBER wrote:
I think your cargo hold should be seperate fom your inventory. No reason it should merge.


In space I want to see the old style hold with cans opening in a seperate window. Looting on the fly with limited space is basically impossible now.

In station you can keep the tree just have the cargohold seperate like before. I would like my hold to stay open and positioned just like the old version.

My cargo is not part of the station and there is no reason it should be treated as such.


If you think of the tabs on the left as tabs used to be on the top of a bar, and if Shift+Click for a new window actually works, we're basically running at the same speed as before for looting, no? Aside from time to adapt to a new system, are we really suffering any delays on that part?

Granted, to support whatever troubles you might be experiencing, I'm speaking as someone who, since the new system was in place, has only shot rats, done PI export/import and can-mines. In those capacities, I love the new system. Perhaps I'm not getting what you mean by limited space?

I can see some justification in having the cargohold LOAD separately, but have it kept in the same window. The one-button access is a blessing, but loading my 400 items whenever I just want to dump minerals is a bit of a bother, I'll give you that.

So, given some time to get used to the space version and given an inventory window that doesn't load the hangar inventory until you tell it to, would you find the system satisfactory?



You're out PvPing, you get yanked your friend loses his faction fit Tengu. If have seconds to get out before yours dies too. He yells over ts grab pithi hardners. You have 75m3 in your hold. You click align, pop open his wreck start grabbing items of value as you click warp. You make it out with his pithi and a couple t2 launchers.


New system you align open. And your window is overlayed with this weird file tree thing. You click loot all, but your 75m3 hold can only carry a couple boosters. Some lucky pilot just got a free pithi.

Yeah there seems to be some kind of options, not sure how they actually work yet. But I know most of us we're good at priortizing on the fly.


P.S. who the hell turned my autocorrect back on! Damn you iPad I typed what I wanted to say! Hardners not hardness! If I to yanked I wouldn't be on here complaining
Whar Target
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2012-05-23 17:26:40 UTC
Let me just say the new inventory system is terrible for looting wrecks.

Under the old system, I always kept a very small window locked on the screen with my ships cargo. Opening a wreck would open a new window, and I could easily click "loot all" and see the items go into my ship's cargo.

Under the new system I am forced to use a (much) larger window because every single wreck or cargo can has to go into the same inventory management pane. This is not progress. Over half my screen is dedicated to windows I essentially need, local chat, overview, scanner, etc... while leaving the ship hud and locked target area clear. The bottom line is I want to free up screen space, not be forced to use more of it to use the new cumbersome inventory pane.

Please allow us the option to revert to the old inventory management system...at least while in space if nothing else.
CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
#157 - 2012-05-23 17:39:19 UTC
Whar Target wrote:
Let me just say the new inventory system is terrible for looting wrecks.

Under the old system, I always kept a very small window locked on the screen with my ships cargo. Opening a wreck would open a new window, and I could easily click "loot all" and see the items go into my ship's cargo.

Under the new system I am forced to use a (much) larger window because every single wreck or cargo can has to go into the same inventory management pane. This is not progress. Over half my screen is dedicated to windows I essentially need, local chat, overview, scanner, etc... while leaving the ship hud and locked target area clear. The bottom line is I want to free up screen space, not be forced to use more of it to use the new cumbersome inventory pane.

Please allow us the option to revert to the old inventory management system...at least while in space if nothing else.



I know I keep buying bigger screens, but I still can't see my ship. I think I started with a 15 inch, than 22 now 24 and still no ship. Remember when only needed one chat window and one overview tab!
Kaetti
Hawking Applied Sciences Institute
#158 - 2012-05-23 17:41:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaetti
DJ P0N-3 wrote:
POS stuff I would like:

- The ability to separate out a type of window and have it stay there, remembering its size (which it does every time you re-open it, which is nice) and whether or not the tree was expanded. This way I can open my cargohold without being slowed down by the tree. I can live with loading times for SMAs -- I've been living with that for ages already. Loading times on my cargo hold make me unhappy.


wow forum ate my message ><

but this badly.

building in a pos and having 10 diffrent assembly arrays makes it messy as hell.
Jo Blot
ALT-F4 Corp
#159 - 2012-05-23 17:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jo Blot
Back in my HQ, where I used to click once to bring up my corp hangers.

Now, where did I find the corp hangers?

In my inventory, naturally.

So click to open that. Click to make the menu visible. Scroll down to the corphangers. Click to open the drop down.

Almost there now.

Right click on hanger for third level menu drop-down, left click to open.
Repeat three more times.

Scroll down to make the remaining hanger tabs visible.

Right click on hanger for third level drop-down, left click to open.
Repeat two more times.

Shift drag hanger 2 into hanger 1.
Repeat five more times.

Stretch the window across the full width of the screen to make the titles readable.

Undock, redock and repeat.

====================================

If you get this far, you've won the game! Congratulations.
Kaitlin Panala
Tortuga Coalition 102
#160 - 2012-05-23 17:45:26 UTC
In addition to the many existing problems with the new UI, I would like to add another suggestion for the Devs to consider.

Please make the item value bar at the bottom of the window a toggle. I can see where some might like it but it is a huge waste of valuable screen real estate for me. If you could make it a toggle option (as you do the time stamp in chat) it would be very, very helpful.

And please make fixing the window position problem a high priority. I really want my windows to be EXACTLY the way I left them when I return to station or when I return to space. Same size, same position, filters minimized, etc... it is a pain to have to readjust them every time I dock up.

Thanks.